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From: "Reshetova, Elena" <elena.reshetova@intel.com>
To: "Richard Weinberger" <richard.weinberger@gmail.com>,
	"Daniel P. Berrangé" <berrange@redhat.com>
Cc: "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Shishkin, Alexander" <alexander.shishkin@intel.com>,
	"Shutemov, Kirill" <kirill.shutemov@intel.com>,
	"Kuppuswamy,
	Sathyanarayanan" <sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@intel.com>,
	"Kleen, Andi" <andi.kleen@intel.com>,
	"Hansen, Dave" <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Wunner, Lukas" <lukas.wunner@intel.com>,
	Mika Westerberg <mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>,
	"Poimboe, Josh" <jpoimboe@redhat.com>,
	"aarcange@redhat.com" <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Cfir Cohen <cfir@google.com>, Marc Orr <marcorr@google.com>,
	"jbachmann@google.com" <jbachmann@google.com>,
	"pgonda@google.com" <pgonda@google.com>,
	"keescook@chromium.org" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	Michael Kelley <mikelley@microsoft.com>,
	"Lange, Jon" <jlange@microsoft.com>,
	"linux-coco@lists.linux.dev" <linux-coco@lists.linux.dev>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: Linux guest kernel threat model for Confidential Computing
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 11:23:54 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <DM8PR11MB57504DFB207175BD31E9F15AE7CC9@DM8PR11MB5750.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFLxGvwHRK3vyXiCv5ELvrDSEkcDgV5c6pNnWgWhcATfp1dedA@mail.gmail.com>

> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 3:22 PM Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@redhat.com>
> wrote:
> > Any virtual device exposed to the guest that can transfer potentially
> > sensitive data needs to have some form of guest controlled encryption
> > applied. For disks this is easy with FDE like LUKS, for NICs this is
> > already best practice for services by using TLS. Other devices may not
> > have good existing options for applying encryption.
> 
> I disagree wrt. LUKS. The cryptography behind LUKS protects persistent data
> but not transport. If an attacker can observe all IO you better
> consult a cryptographer.
> LUKS has no concept of session keys or such, so the same disk sector will
> always get encrypted with the very same key/iv.

I guess you are referring to the aes-xts-plain64 mode of LUKS operation or
to LUKS in general? Different modes of operation (including AEAD modes)
can provide different levels of protection, so I would not state it so generally.
But the point you raised is good to discuss through: XTS for example is a confidentiality mode,
based on a concept of tweakable blockcipher, designed as you pointed out
with disk encryption use case in mind. It does have a bunch of limitations/
weaknesses that are known (good classical reference I can suggest on this is [1]),
but as any blockcipher mode its confidentiality guarantees are evaluated in terms
of security against a chosen ciphertext attack (CCA) where an adversary has an access to both
encryption and decryption oracle (he can perform encryptions and decryptions
of plaintexts/cyphertexts of his liking up to the allowed number of queries). 
This is a very powerful attack model which to me seems to cover the model
of untrusted host/VMM being able to observe disk reads/writes.

Also, if I remember right, the disk encryption also assumes that the disk operations are fully visible
to the attacker, i.e. he can see all encrypted data on the disk, observe how it changes
when a new block is written, etc. So, where do we have a change in an attacker model here? 
What am I missing? 

What AES XTS was never designed to do is an integrity protection (only some very limited 
malleability): it is not AEAD mode, it doesn’t also provide a replay protection. So, the same
limitations are going to apply in our case also. 

Best Regards,
Elena.

[1] Chapter 6. XTS mode, https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/papers/modes.pdf


  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-01-27 11:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-01-25 12:28 Linux guest kernel threat model for Confidential Computing Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-25 12:43 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-01-25 13:42   ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-25 14:13     ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2023-01-25 15:29       ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-26 14:23       ` Richard Weinberger
2023-01-26 14:58         ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-26 15:13           ` Richard Weinberger
2023-01-26 15:22             ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-26 15:55             ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2023-01-27  9:02             ` Jörg Rödel
2023-01-26 15:43         ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2023-01-27 11:23         ` Reshetova, Elena [this message]
2023-01-30 11:30       ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-01-25 14:22     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-01-25 14:30       ` James Bottomley
2023-01-25 14:57       ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-25 15:16         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-01-25 15:45           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-25 16:02             ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2023-01-25 17:47               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-25 15:50           ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-25 18:47           ` Jiri Kosina
2023-01-26  9:19           ` Jörg Rödel
2023-01-25 21:53         ` Lukas Wunner
2023-01-26 10:48           ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-26 11:24             ` Jonathan Cameron
2023-01-26 13:32             ` Samuel Ortiz
     [not found]           ` <CAGXJix9-cXNW7EwJf0PVzj_Qmt5fmQvBX1KvXfRX5NAeEpnMvw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-26 10:58             ` Jonathan Cameron
2023-01-26 13:15               ` Samuel Ortiz
2023-01-26 16:07                 ` Jonathan Cameron
2023-01-27  7:02                   ` Samuel Ortiz
2023-01-26 15:44             ` Lukas Wunner
2023-01-26 16:25               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-26 21:41                 ` Lukas Wunner
2023-01-27  7:17               ` Samuel Ortiz
2023-01-25 20:13       ` Jiri Kosina
2023-01-26 13:13       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-25 15:29   ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-25 16:40     ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-26  8:08       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-26 11:19     ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-01-26 11:29       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-26 12:30         ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-01-26 13:28           ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-26 13:50             ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-01-26 20:54             ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-27 19:24             ` James Bottomley
2023-01-30  7:42               ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-30 12:40                 ` James Bottomley
2023-01-31 11:31                   ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-31 13:28                     ` James Bottomley
2023-01-31 15:14                       ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-01-31 17:39                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-01 10:52                           ` Christophe de Dinechin Dupont de Dinechin
2023-02-01 11:01                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-01 13:15                               ` Christophe de Dinechin Dupont de Dinechin
2023-02-01 16:02                                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-01 17:13                                   ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-02-06 18:58                                     ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-02-02  3:24                               ` Jason Wang
2023-02-01 10:24                         ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-01-31 16:34                       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-31 17:49                         ` James Bottomley
2023-02-02 14:51                     ` Jeremi Piotrowski
2023-02-03 14:05                       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-27  9:32           ` Jörg Rödel
2023-01-26 13:58         ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-26 17:48           ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-26 18:06             ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-01-26 18:14               ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-01-26 16:29     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-27  8:52       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-27 10:04         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-27 12:25           ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-27 14:32             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-27 20:51             ` Carlos Bilbao
2023-01-30 11:36 ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-01-30 12:00   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2023-01-30 15:14     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-01-31 10:06   ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-01-31 16:52     ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-02-02 11:31       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-02-07  0:27 ` Carlos Bilbao
2023-02-07  6:03   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-07 19:53     ` Carlos Bilbao
2023-02-07 21:55       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-08  1:51       ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-02-08  9:31         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-08 10:44           ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-02-08 10:58             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-08 16:19               ` Christophe de Dinechin
2023-02-08 17:29                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-08 18:02                   ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-02-08 18:58                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-02-09 19:48                       ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2023-02-08 13:00             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-08 13:42             ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-02-08  7:19       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-08 10:16       ` Reshetova, Elena
2023-02-08 13:15         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-02-09 14:30           ` Reshetova, Elena

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