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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
To: Hubertus Franke <frankeh@watson.ibm.com>
Cc: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>, <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Futexes IV (Fast Lightweight Userspace Semaphores)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:12:14 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203081802540.5197-100000@penguin.transmeta.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020308235510.EBDF83FE06@smtp.linux.ibm.com>


On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Hubertus Franke wrote:
> >
> > The point being that the difference between a "decl" and a "lock ;  decl"
> > is about 1:12 or so in performance.
>
> I am no expert in architecture, but if its done through the cache coherency 
> mechanism, the overhead shouldn't be 12:1. You simply mark the cache line as 
> part of you instruction to avoid a cache line transfer. How can that be 12 
> times slower.  .. Ready to be educated....

A lock in a SMP system also needs to synchronize the instruction stream,
and not let stores move "out" from the locked region.

On a UP system, this all happens automatically (well, getting it to happen
right is obviously one of the big issues in an out-of-order CPU core, but
it's a very fundamental part of the core, so it's "free" in the sense that
if it isn't done, the CPU simply doesn't work).

On SMP, it's a memory barrier. This is why a "lock ; decl" is more
expensive than a "decl" - it's the implied memory ordering constraints (on
other architectures they are explicit). On an intel CPU, this basically
means that the pipeline is drained, so a locked instruction takes roughly
12 cycles on a PPro core (AMD's K7 core seems to be rather more graceful
about this one). I haven't timed a P4 lately, I think it's worse.

Other architectures do the memory ordering explicitly, and some are
better, some are worse. But it always costs you _something_.

		Linus


  reply	other threads:[~2002-03-09  2:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 95+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-03-05  7:01 [PATCH] Futexes IV (Fast Lightweight Userspace Semaphores) Rusty Russell
2002-03-05 21:23 ` Futexes III : performance numbers Hubertus Franke
2002-03-06  2:08   ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-06 14:28     ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-06 17:23       ` [Lse-tech] " george anzinger
2002-03-07  0:25     ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-07  0:35     ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-05 22:39 ` [PATCH] Futexes IV (Fast Lightweight Userspace Semaphores) Davide Libenzi
2002-03-05 23:16   ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-05 23:26     ` Davide Libenzi
2002-03-05 23:37       ` Peter Svensson
2002-03-05 23:50         ` Davide Libenzi
2002-03-08  0:07       ` Richard Henderson
2002-03-06  1:46   ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-06  2:03     ` Davide Libenzi
2002-03-06  7:54 ` Futexes III : performance numbers Rusty Russell
2002-03-06 14:46   ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-06 16:13   ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-06 20:36     ` Futexes V : Hubertus Franke
2002-03-07  4:21     ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-08 18:07 ` [PATCH] Futexes IV (Fast Lightweight Userspace Semaphores) Linus Torvalds
2002-03-08 19:03   ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-08 19:22     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-08 20:29       ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-08 20:48         ` Matthew Kirkwood
2002-03-08 21:02         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-08 23:15           ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-08 23:36             ` Alan Cox
2002-03-08 23:41             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-08 23:56               ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-09  2:12                 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2002-03-11 14:14                   ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-09  0:03               ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-03-09  1:15                 ` Alan Cox
2002-03-10 19:41                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-11 20:49                     ` Pavel Machek
2002-03-10 19:58                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2002-03-10 20:40                     ` Alan Cox
2002-03-10 20:28                       ` Martin J. Bligh
2002-03-10 21:05                         ` Alan Cox
2002-03-13  7:40                   ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-13 16:37                     ` Alan Cox
2002-03-12  9:35                 ` Helge Hafting
2002-03-08 20:40       ` Alan Cox
2002-03-08 20:57         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-08 23:43           ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-03-08 22:55         ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-08 23:38           ` Alan Cox
2002-03-08 23:44           ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-03-08 20:47       ` george anzinger
2002-03-08 23:02         ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-08 23:47           ` george anzinger
2002-03-09  1:11             ` Alan Cox
2002-03-09  1:20             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-09  4:49     ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-11 22:45       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-11 23:12         ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-12  7:20         ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-12 14:56           ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-13  4:02             ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-12 17:17           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-13  2:57             ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-09  4:51 ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-13  9:12 Martin Wirth
2002-03-13 19:41 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-03-13 19:52   ` Dave McCracken
2002-03-13 22:17     ` Bill Davidsen
2002-03-13 20:06   ` Alan Cox
2002-03-15  7:31 ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-15  8:41   ` Martin Wirth
2002-03-15 15:29     ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-15 16:23     ` Peter Wächtler
2002-03-16  0:12       ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-16 11:23         ` Martin Wirth
2002-03-18  0:52           ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-03-19  3:28             ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-19  4:05               ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-03-20  6:20                 ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-20 10:42                   ` Peter Wächtler
2002-03-20 17:20                     ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-03-19  8:34               ` Martin Wirth
2002-03-20  6:45                 ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-21  6:48                   ` Martin Wirth
2002-03-24 18:25                     ` Peter Wächtler
2002-03-25  2:28                       ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-25  4:46                         ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-25 11:56                           ` Peter Wächtler
2002-03-26  1:02                             ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-26  8:17                               ` Martin Wirth
2002-03-26 23:10                                 ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-27 21:05                                   ` Hubertus Franke
2002-03-27 23:53                                     ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-25  9:47                         ` Peter Wächtler
2002-03-16 19:48         ` Peter Wächtler
2002-03-17  6:50         ` Rusty Russell

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