* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec [not found] <mailman.1032587460.6299.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com> @ 2002-09-21 12:51 ` Pete Zaitcev 2002-09-21 18:16 ` Greg KH 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Pete Zaitcev @ 2002-09-21 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Greg KH; +Cc: linux-kernel > - actually, what do any of these CONFIG_ options do, and why > would someone not want the CONFIG_DRIVER_ROBUST to be always > enabled? Probably performance blows when it is enabled. > In summary, I think that a lot of people have spent a lot of time in > creating this document, and the surrounding code that matches this > document. I really wish that a tiny bit of that effort had gone into > contacting the Linux kernel development community, and asking to work > with them on a project like this. Due to that not happening, and by > looking at the resultant spec and code, I'm really afraid the majority > of that time and effort will have been wasted. Eek. They never mentioned any code before now. In fact they explicitly said they weren't going to code before the spec was ready. -- Pete ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 12:51 ` my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec Pete Zaitcev @ 2002-09-21 18:16 ` Greg KH 2002-09-21 21:52 ` Francois Romieu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pete Zaitcev; +Cc: linux-kernel, hardeneddrivers-discuss, cgl_discussion On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 08:51:15AM -0400, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > > > In summary, I think that a lot of people have spent a lot of time in > > creating this document, and the surrounding code that matches this > > document. I really wish that a tiny bit of that effort had gone into > > contacting the Linux kernel development community, and asking to work > > with them on a project like this. Due to that not happening, and by > > looking at the resultant spec and code, I'm really afraid the majority > > of that time and effort will have been wasted. > > Eek. They never mentioned any code before now. In fact they > explicitly said they weren't going to code before the spec > was ready. Oh, there's lots of code: A "hardened" binary kernel driver: http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/hardeneddrivers/sampledriver-0.1-1.i386.rpm (um people, why a binary? Where's the source for this?) Some header files: http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/hardeneddrivers/ddhardening_headerfiles.tar.gz A bunch of diagnostics code: http://linux-diag.sourceforge.net/code/cpu_affinity-v0.2.1.tar.gz http://linux-diag.sourceforge.net/code/pmem-0.2.1.tar.gz http://linux-diag.sourceforge.net/code/crms-0.1.1.tar.gz And a bunch of resource monitoring code: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=54710 CG people, are you wanting any of this code to be in the main kernel? If so, why have you not submitted it to anyone yet? And why did you write any code before the spec was ready if you said you were not going to do that? thanks, greg k-h ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 18:16 ` Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 21:52 ` Francois Romieu 2002-09-21 22:02 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 2002-09-21 22:42 ` Greg KH 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Francois Romieu @ 2002-09-21 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-kernel; +Cc: hardeneddrivers-discuss [Cc list trimmed] Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> : [...] > Oh, there's lots of code: > A "hardened" binary kernel driver: > http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/hardeneddrivers/sampledriver-0.1-1.i386.rpm > (um people, why a binary? Where's the source for this?) In the cvs. See: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/ -- Ueimor ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 21:52 ` Francois Romieu @ 2002-09-21 22:02 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 2002-09-21 22:17 ` Francois Romieu 2002-09-21 22:42 ` Greg KH 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Mr. James W. Laferriere @ 2002-09-21 22:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Francois Romieu; +Cc: linux-kernel, hardeneddrivers-discuss Hello Francois , A suggestion for Documentation . Please produce output of Windows docs into non-propitary formats . txt , pfd , ps , ... Tia , JimL On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Francois Romieu wrote: > [Cc list trimmed] > > Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> : > [...] > > Oh, there's lots of code: > > A "hardened" binary kernel driver: > > http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/hardeneddrivers/sampledriver-0.1-1.i386.rpm > > (um people, why a binary? Where's the source for this?) > > In the cvs. See: > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/ > > -- > Ueimor > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | P.O. Box 854 | Give me Linux | | babydr@baby-dragons.com | Coudersport PA 16915 | only on AXP | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 22:02 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere @ 2002-09-21 22:17 ` Francois Romieu 2002-09-21 22:35 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Francois Romieu @ 2002-09-21 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mr. James W. Laferriere; +Cc: linux-kernel Mr. James W. Laferriere <babydr@baby-dragons.com> : [...] > Hello Francois , A suggestion for Documentation . Please produce > output of Windows docs into non-propitary formats . > txt , pfd , ps , ... Tia , JimL I don't remember having written a doc in proprietary format lately. -- Ueimor ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 22:17 ` Francois Romieu @ 2002-09-21 22:35 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 2002-09-21 22:37 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Mr. James W. Laferriere @ 2002-09-21 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Francois Romieu; +Cc: linux-kernel Hello Francios , ... Hth , JimL http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/hardeneddrivers/docs/DD_hardening_spec.doc On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Francois Romieu wrote: > Mr. James W. Laferriere <babydr@baby-dragons.com> : > [...] > > Hello Francois , A suggestion for Documentation . Please produce > > output of Windows docs into non-propitary formats . > > txt , pfd , ps , ... Tia , JimL > I don't remember having written a doc in proprietary format lately. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | P.O. Box 854 | Give me Linux | | babydr@baby-dragons.com | Coudersport PA 16915 | only on AXP | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 22:35 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere @ 2002-09-21 22:37 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Mr. James W. Laferriere @ 2002-09-21 22:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Francois Romieu; +Cc: linux-kernel Hello Francois , found the pdf of the same doc I beleive . Tia , JimL On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Mr. James W. Laferriere wrote: > > Hello Francios , ... Hth , JimL > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/hardeneddrivers/docs/DD_hardening_spec.doc > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Francois Romieu wrote: > > Mr. James W. Laferriere <babydr@baby-dragons.com> : > > [...] > > > Hello Francois , A suggestion for Documentation . Please produce > > > output of Windows docs into non-propitary formats . > > > txt , pfd , ps , ... Tia , JimL > > I don't remember having written a doc in proprietary format lately. > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | > | Network Engineer | P.O. Box 854 | Give me Linux | > | babydr@baby-dragons.com | Coudersport PA 16915 | only on AXP | > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | P.O. Box 854 | Give me Linux | | babydr@baby-dragons.com | Coudersport PA 16915 | only on AXP | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 21:52 ` Francois Romieu 2002-09-21 22:02 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere @ 2002-09-21 22:42 ` Greg KH 2002-09-22 0:57 ` Andre Hedrick 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Francois Romieu; +Cc: linux-kernel, hardeneddrivers-discuss On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 11:52:19PM +0200, Francois Romieu wrote: > [Cc list trimmed] > > Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> : > [...] > > Oh, there's lots of code: > > A "hardened" binary kernel driver: > > http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/hardeneddrivers/sampledriver-0.1-1.i386.rpm > > (um people, why a binary? Where's the source for this?) > > In the cvs. See: > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/ Thanks for pointing this out, I missed it. Hm, if this is the code that the CG group is proposing for reliable drivers, we are all in trouble. See: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/sampledriver.h?rev=1.1.1.1 as a very small example of what not to do :) I'd be glad to provide concrete criticism of the other files in this directory, if I thought people would actually change their programming style to follow what their own spec says to do... {sigh} http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/sampledriver_init.c?rev=1.1.1.1 contains so many examples of bad style, and real bugs... greg k-h ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 22:42 ` Greg KH @ 2002-09-22 0:57 ` Andre Hedrick 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Andre Hedrick @ 2002-09-22 0:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Greg KH; +Cc: Francois Romieu, linux-kernel, hardeneddrivers-discuss #ifndef __MYDRVR_H__ #define __MYDRVR_H__ #define MYDRVR_IOCTL_MAGIC 'm' #define MYDRVR_IOCTL_RCV _IO(MYDRVR_IOCTL_MAGIC, 0) typedef struct _MYDRVR_CONTEXT { unsigned long cRCV; /* number of RCV ioctls made */ unsigned long cDeviceOpen; /* device open count */ } MYDRVR_CONTEXT, *PMYDRVR_CONTEXT; #define ZEROMEMORY(pAddr, cbSize) \ { \ int i; \ char *d = (char *)(pAddr); \ for ( i = 0; i < (cbSize); i++, *d++ = 0 ); \ } #endif /* __MYDRVR_H__ */ SHEESH, COULD THEY LEARN THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN ALL CAPS?? Sweet, that is "stick ugly"! stick ugly : beating with a stick and it can not made any uglier than it is presently. Andre Hedrick LAD Storage Consulting Group On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Greg KH wrote: > On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 11:52:19PM +0200, Francois Romieu wrote: > > [Cc list trimmed] > > > > Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> : > > [...] > > > Oh, there's lots of code: > > > A "hardened" binary kernel driver: > > > http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/hardeneddrivers/sampledriver-0.1-1.i386.rpm > > > (um people, why a binary? Where's the source for this?) > > > > In the cvs. See: > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/ > > Thanks for pointing this out, I missed it. > > Hm, if this is the code that the CG group is proposing for reliable > drivers, we are all in trouble. See: > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/sampledriver.h?rev=1.1.1.1 > > as a very small example of what not to do :) > > I'd be glad to provide concrete criticism of the other files in this > directory, if I thought people would actually change their programming > style to follow what their own spec says to do... > > {sigh} > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/hardeneddrivers/sample_driver/src/sampledriver_init.c?rev=1.1.1.1 > contains so many examples of bad style, and real bugs... > > greg k-h > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] Linux Hardened Device Drivers Project @ 2002-09-21 1:40 Greg KH 2002-09-21 5:34 ` my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec Greg KH 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 1:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Rhoads, Rob; +Cc: 'linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org' Hi, I've just started to read over the published spec, and will reserve comment on it, and the example code you've created after I'm done reading it. But I'll make a few comments right now on your announcement: On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 05:26:47PM -0700, Rhoads, Rob wrote: > > Project Announcement: > -------------------- > We've started a new project on sourceforge.net w/ focus > on hardening Linux device drivers for highly available > systems. This project is being worked on with folks from > OSDL's CGL and DCL projects as well. Who is "we"? > Hardened Driver Project Overview: > -------------------------------- > Device drivers have traditionally been a significant source > of software faults. For this reason, they are of key concern > in improving the availability and stability of the operating > system. A critical element in creating Highly Available (HA) > environment is to reduce the likelihood of faults in key > drivers, a methodology called driver hardening. Or in simpler terms, making drivers that work, right? Do you have any statistics that show that existing Linux drivers are a problem with HA systems? If so, which drivers? > A device driver is typically implemented with emphasis on > the proper operation of the hardware. Attention to how it > will function in the event of hardware faults is often > minimal. Ah, a broad generalization, very nice to set up for the reasoning behind your project. But is this really true? Lots of existing kernel drivers can handle a wide range of hardware faults, and user faults. Again, do people have any specific problems with existing drivers, or driver subsystems? > The goal of a hardened driver is to provide an environment > in which hardware and software failures are transparent to > the applications using their services, where possible. The > way to effectively achieve this goal is to analyze a > driver's software design and implement appropriate changes > to improve stability, reliability and availability, and > to provide instrumentation for management middleware. So in order to achieve reliable drivers, we want to add more lines of code to the driver to allow for instrumentation? What happens when the fault happens in the instrumentation interface? And what is watching this interface for problems in it's handling of data? > We believe that improving driver stability and reliability > includes such measures as ensuring that all wait loops are > limited with a timeout, validating input and output data and > structuring the driver to anticipate hardware errors. All good things to achieve. Have you looked at the kernel-janitors project? There are lots of places where you all can jump in to achieve this right now in the existing code. Patches for these items are always welcome, a spec is not needed :) > Improving availability includes adding support for device > hot swapping and validating the driver with fault injection. Hot-swap needs to have hardware that can support this. Linux currently supports these kinds of hardware configurations (USB, IEEE1294, PCI Hotplug, cPCI Hotplug, hotplug CPU, etc.) Are there existing types of hardware that is present in your systems that do not have support on Linux? And if so, creating drivers for this hardware would be greatly appreciated. As for "fault injection", this traditionally requires hardware test setups that are beyond the means of most kernel programmers. Will your group be providing access to this kind of hardware for kernel developers to test their drivers with? > Instrumentation for management middleware includes functions > such as reporting of statistical indicators and logging of > pertinent events to enable postmortem analysis in the event > of a failure. Um, about this middleware management layer, are you talking about RAS-style kernel logging? If so, please see the archives about why the current implementation of this has been rejected by the kernel community. > We've identified four areas in which drivers can be hardened: > o Hardening with code robustness You mean the driver core? That should be a requirement of any Linux kernel driver today, hardened or not. So all Linux drivers already meet this, right? If not, please let us know and they will be fixed. > o Hardening with event logging See the above comment about RAS. > o Hardening with diagnostics Ah, but most hardware does not support diagnostics. What do you do suggest be done for this? > o Hardening with resource monitoring and statistics The middle management layer, right? I'll get into my response of this once I've gone over the spec. > We've also identified some key areas we feel are most critical > to overall system stability and plan to focus initial hardening > efforts on drivers for network interface cards, physical storage, > and logical storage. In a quick look at your example code and documentation, this is all for the 2.4 kernel. As the 2.5 deadline is almost a month away, do you have any intention of trying to get these features and layers into the 2.5 kernel? And if not, are you willing to wait until the 2.7 kernel is opened up? That's probably enough questions for now :) thanks, greg k-h ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 1:40 [ANNOUNCE] Linux Hardened Device Drivers Project Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 5:34 ` Greg KH 2002-09-21 15:21 ` Martin J. Bligh 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 5:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Rhoads, Rob, linux-kernel, hardeneddrivers-discuss, cgl_discussion <sorry for the mangled header on the first send of this> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 06:40:54PM -0700, Greg KH wrote: > Hi, > > I've just started to read over the published spec, and will reserve > comment on it, and the example code you've created after I'm done > reading it. Ok, here's some comments on the 0.5h release of the Device Driver Hardening Design Specification: (I'll skip the intro, and feel good sections and get into the details that you lay out, starting in section 2) Section 2: 2.1: - do NOT use /proc for driver info. Use driverfs. - If you are using a kernel version that does not have driverfs, put all /proc driver info under /proc/drivers, which is where it belongs. - Only have 1 value per file, and no binary data in the files. - Do not put the "kernel version for which the driver was compiled", as that _always_ much match the kernel version that is running, so is redundant. 2.2: - do NOT use typedef 2.5.5: - you do not have to always check data returned from functions, if you wrote the functions in the first place. Redundant checking of all data within the kernel, slows things down. Sure, some checking is good, but do not say that it is a requirement, or no one will want to use your driver. The majority of section 2 is very nice, it's a good list of things that drivers should do. Section 3: Wow, where to start... The Common Statistic Manager: - why does this have to live in the kernel? It should be in userspace, grabbing all of the data from the /proc files you just specified in section 2.1. POSIX event logging: - wow, not much I can say here, that hasn't already been said before :( Diagnostics: - now these are a good idea. A common subsystem that drivers can register what kind of diagnostics they can run on their hardware, nice. 3.1.1: - UUIDs!!!??? You have got to be kidding. Here, for the benefit of those who have not read this, I'll quote: "Each subsystem, and each resource contained within each subsystem, needs to be uniquely identified. In order to do this a hardened driver developer shall pre-assign a Universally Unique Identifier (UUID) as the Subsystem ID for each subsystem, and shall provide a means to assign a unique Resource ID string for each resource within a subsystem." So for every resource, a string shall be associated with it. But that means for most resources, the string will take up more memory than the resource itself does. Does that make sense? It's also up to the driver to create these resource ids at runtime and guarantee their uniqueness over the lifetime of the kernel. How in the world can you expect every driver author to do this? Any example code out there? And what are these UUIDs going to be used for, ah, event logging. Enough said. 3.2 Statistics: You actually want every driver to support SNMP compliant statistics groups within themselves? Why? What a bloat of a kernel. All of this should be done (if at all) from userspace. 3.2.5.2: (I'm not condoning ANY of these functions or code, just trying to point out how you should, if they were to be in the kernel, done properly.) - do not use typedef - struct stat_info does not need *unit, as that is already specified in the scale field, right? - the stat_value_t union is just a horrible abomination, don't do that. 3.3 Diagnostics: - not a bad idea, but some work could be done on the implementation. Would fit in nicely with the device driver model in 2.5. For 2.4, it would be another subsystem a driver would register with. 3.3.3.2: - no typedefs - run() is horrible, you are trying to fit all kinds of possible diagnosis into one function callback. Not a good idea. Break the different kinds of callbacks out into different functions. That ensures type safety, right now you are just creating another ioctl() type mess. 3.4 Event logging: - I'm not even going to touch this, sorry. 4: High Availability - are you all working with the existing HA group? 4.1: - um, what are you trying to say here. This section is pointless. Yes we all think Hot Swap is a good idea, that's why Linux currently supports it. 4.2: - RAID and ethernet bonding is nice. Again, Linux already has projects and support for these things. Why mention them? The rest of this section is fine, and I welcome any test harnesses that are created to do this kind of fault injection for driver testing. 5: - Here you back-pedal on everything you said up till now. Let me summarize what is said in these 3 paragraphs in 1 sentence: "Yes, all these things are well and good, but don't let them effect the currently great performance Linux has today." Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. 5.1: - do NOT use #ifdef in the .c files. Only in .h files. - why is CONFIG_DRIVER_HOTSWAP an option. What does it do that CONFIG_HOTPLUG does not do today? - actually, what do any of these CONFIG_ options do, and why would someone not want the CONFIG_DRIVER_ROBUST to be always enabled? In summary, I think that a lot of people have spent a lot of time in creating this document, and the surrounding code that matches this document. I really wish that a tiny bit of that effort had gone into contacting the Linux kernel development community, and asking to work with them on a project like this. Due to that not happening, and by looking at the resultant spec and code, I'm really afraid the majority of that time and effort will have been wasted. What do I think can be salvaged? Diagnostics are a good idea, and I think they fit into the driver model in 2.5 pretty well. A lot of kernel janitoring work could be done by the CG team to clean up, and harden (by applying the things in section 2) the existing kernel drivers. That effort alone would go a long way in helping the stability of Linux, and also introduce the CG developers into the kernel community as active, helping developers. It would allow the CG developers to learn from the existing developers, as we must be doing something right for Linux to be working as well as it does :) Also, open specs for the hardware the CG members produce, to allow existing kernel drivers to be enhanced (instead of having to be reverse engineered), and new kernel drivers to be created, would also go a long way in helping out both the CG's members and the entire Linux community's cause of having a robust, stable kernel be achived easier. Closed specs, and closed drivers do not help anyone. thanks for reading this far, greg k-h ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec 2002-09-21 5:34 ` my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec Greg KH @ 2002-09-21 15:21 ` Martin J. Bligh 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Martin J. Bligh @ 2002-09-21 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Greg KH, Rhoads, Rob, linux-kernel, hardeneddrivers-discuss, cgl_discussion > What do I think can be salvaged? Diagnostics are a good idea, and I > think they fit into the driver model in 2.5 pretty well. A lot of > kernel janitoring work could be done by the CG team to clean up, and > harden (by applying the things in section 2) the existing kernel > drivers. That effort alone would go a long way in helping the stability > of Linux, and also introduce the CG developers into the kernel community > as active, helping developers. It would allow the CG developers to > learn from the existing developers, as we must be doing something right > for Linux to be working as well as it does :) People with fault injection hardware are also extremely helpful (assuming they do something useful with it). That's not something most of the community would have access to, but the CG-type people probably do. A couple of people who spent their full time kicking the hell out of Sequent's fibrechannel system made a massive difference to it's quality and reliabilty. That's definitely something this project could help by doing ... whatever people feel about the some of more theoretical aspects to their work being discussed, I think few would object to some real-world help from people tracking down and fixing existing bugs, especially in the error handling. M. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-09-22 0:56 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <mailman.1032587460.6299.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com> 2002-09-21 12:51 ` my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec Pete Zaitcev 2002-09-21 18:16 ` Greg KH 2002-09-21 21:52 ` Francois Romieu 2002-09-21 22:02 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 2002-09-21 22:17 ` Francois Romieu 2002-09-21 22:35 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 2002-09-21 22:37 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere 2002-09-21 22:42 ` Greg KH 2002-09-22 0:57 ` Andre Hedrick 2002-09-21 1:40 [ANNOUNCE] Linux Hardened Device Drivers Project Greg KH 2002-09-21 5:34 ` my review of the Device Driver Hardening Design Spec Greg KH 2002-09-21 15:21 ` Martin J. Bligh
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