From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Rene Herman <rene.herman@keyaccess.nl>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:01:49 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602011540070.21884@g5.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <43E14451.1010100@keyaccess.nl>
On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Rene Herman wrote:
> > So. Claiming that the GPL license text itself cannot be part of the program
> > is disingenious. According to your reading, the modified BSD license
> > wouldn't be compatible with the GPL either, because it requires:
> >
> > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
> > * notice, this list of conditions, and the following disclaimer,
> > * without modification.
> >
> > yet the FSF has clearly stated that this is perfectly fine, even though it
> > also disallows modifications to the license text.
>
> But please note that this is indeed perfectly fine, and does not contradict
> anything I say. This requirement only disallows modifications to the copright
> and license notices, not modifications of the _program_ and the GPL is
> perfectly fine with that.
You continue to make this totally arbitrary distinction between "copyright
and license notices" and the "program".
That distinction does not make any sense.
The "license notices" _are_ an integral part of the program. Nothing else
makes sense. They are often in the same files (that's the most common case
by far), and as I showed you, they are often (as in the case of the GPL
license notice itself) actually _linked_in_ into the actual binary itself.
I find absolutely zero legal ground for your distinction that they are
somehow a totally independent entity from "the program", and it is in
fact in total disagreement with GPLv2 section 9 where they talk about the
"Program" specifying a license version.
You seem to be saying that no copyright license or notice is ever part of
the "Program", but that's totally idiotic. It would mean that you can
_never_ specify a "license version" in the Program, because by your
totally inconsistent rules, that copyright license note would
automatically somehow magically not be part of "Program".
So your reading simply DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
I claim that Copyright notices and licenses very much _are_ part of the
program. I claim that because (a) the license says nothing to the contrary
and (b) the license clearly _does_ talk of copyright notices within the
Program (since the "Program" can specify a license version as per section
9: how the hell could you specify a license version "in" the Program, if
all copyright license notices were somehow magically "outside" the
Program?)
You cannot have it both ways. You can't say that copyright license notes
are sometimes outside the Program, and sometimes part of the Program.
The _only_ consistent reading is that copyright notices are _always_ part
of the Program, and that you must leave them intact as per section 1. This
also makes it clear that the "you must be able to modify" (section 2) does
_not_ cover copyright notices and licenses, even though they _are_ part of
the Program.
See? My reading is perfectly self-consistent, and doesn't need any
artificial separation of "copyright notice" vs "Program". Yours is not.
Your notion of copyright notes and licenses somehow being separate from
"Program" simply cannot be reconciled with reality, common sense _or_ the
wording in section 9.
The fact is, the copyright notices and licenses really _are_ a very
integral part of "Program". You cannot separate one from the other - not
conceptually, and not physically - and trying to do so would in fact be a
clear violation of section 1.
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-02-02 0:01 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 214+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-01-20 16:49 GPL V3 and Linux Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:11 ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-20 19:34 ` Patrick McLean
2006-01-20 18:22 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 18:30 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:45 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-25 18:46 ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 17:14 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 17:30 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 19:24 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 19:50 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-25 20:44 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-25 21:20 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-25 22:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-25 23:26 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 17:59 ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 16:28 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 18:25 ` Filip Brcic
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601261233150.17225@turbotaz.ourhouse>
2006-01-26 16:55 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 22:54 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 2:15 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 2:23 ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27 2:37 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 2:53 ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27 19:50 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 3:40 ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-27 7:34 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-01-27 8:09 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27 13:38 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 19:50 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 20:30 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 21:12 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 19:30 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 15:56 ` Roland Kuhn
2006-01-26 18:52 ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 18:53 ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 19:22 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 19:52 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:04 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 20:21 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:51 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-26 22:28 ` GPL V3 and Linux - V3 adds new restrictions Marc Perkel
[not found] ` <20060127015811.03beb9e5.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-01-27 6:58 ` sean
2006-01-28 4:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-26 19:33 ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57 ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 22:16 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 22:23 ` Al Viro
2006-01-28 1:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 19:45 ` Michael Buesch
2006-01-28 19:04 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 10:46 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 13:39 ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 14:00 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:18 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 14:42 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 15:20 ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 15:32 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:46 ` Chris Bergeron
2006-01-27 14:47 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-28 1:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 23:23 ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-28 1:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30 7:00 ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2006-01-31 23:18 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-28 4:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 4:57 ` Chris Adams
2006-01-28 20:38 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-29 14:30 ` Matthias Urlichs
2006-01-28 15:38 ` Florian Weimer
2006-01-27 21:33 ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28 5:38 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-28 8:31 ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28 10:37 ` Peter Read
2006-01-30 18:15 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-30 19:43 ` Glauber de Oliveira Costa
2006-01-30 22:00 ` Filip Brcic
[not found] ` <5d6222a80601302012v22196faci3ce81320fb534f30@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-01 15:30 ` Georg C. F. Greve
2006-02-01 16:32 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-01 22:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:43 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 0:18 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02 8:39 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 9:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 9:32 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 10:30 ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-04 17:45 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-02-02 10:46 ` James Bruce
2006-02-02 11:13 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 12:31 ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 13:31 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 16:23 ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 11:50 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 16:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:40 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 9:37 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 14:45 ` Gene Heskett
2006-02-02 14:38 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02 16:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:08 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 17:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:54 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 18:12 ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-02-02 18:27 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-06 16:11 ` Horst von Brand
2006-02-02 18:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 19:20 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 19:46 ` Mark v Wolher
2006-02-02 19:52 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 23:07 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 23:52 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-03 8:14 ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 18:13 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-02-02 18:49 ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 19:11 ` Christopher Friesen
2006-02-02 19:18 ` Lee Revell
2006-02-05 3:58 ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-05 7:06 ` Zan Lynx
2006-02-06 21:07 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-06 22:38 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-07 13:44 ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-07 13:40 ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-03 21:33 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-02-01 16:06 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 22:02 ` Pavel Machek
2006-02-02 22:24 ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 23:04 ` Karim Yaghmour
[not found] ` <1138387136.26811.8.camel@localhost>
2006-01-28 2:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 5:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 6:25 ` Al Viro
2006-01-28 23:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30 11:26 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 17:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 17:24 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 19:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 18:48 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 19:57 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-02-02 19:52 ` Matan Peled
[not found] ` <3e1162e60602021207o5893055fqe8a20c99ff8a19b6@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-02 20:29 ` Matan Peled
2006-01-31 21:45 ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-31 21:47 ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-31 22:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 6:52 ` Gene Heskett
2006-01-31 22:04 ` Rene Herman
2006-01-31 23:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 23:32 ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01 0:20 ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01 14:29 ` Rene Herman
2006-02-01 22:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:29 ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02 0:01 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2006-02-02 0:16 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02 1:08 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 9:50 ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02 6:39 ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-02 6:57 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-02 7:11 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03 3:56 ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03 5:35 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03 13:31 ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03 3:35 ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03 5:35 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-01 22:46 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 12:31 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-01-31 23:48 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01 0:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 0:45 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 19:55 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:10 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:16 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:27 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 23:57 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01 10:01 ` Rogier Wolff
2006-02-01 13:59 ` GPL V3 -- PLEA FOR SANITY Theodore Ts'o
2006-01-31 20:32 ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-31 20:43 ` Josh Boyer
2006-02-01 0:06 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01 1:02 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 0:53 ` Kurt Wall
2006-01-21 2:27 ` GPL V3 and Linux Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21 4:08 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21 5:56 ` Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21 18:28 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21 19:01 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-01-21 20:43 ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-23 22:10 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24 0:34 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-24 0:52 ` Harald Arnesen
2006-01-24 1:55 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-24 3:08 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-24 9:10 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-24 15:49 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-24 9:37 ` Wartan Hachaturow
2006-01-24 10:23 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-24 10:38 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-24 13:53 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24 16:13 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 1:21 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-25 9:42 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-25 16:02 ` [OT] " Steven Rostedt
2006-01-27 3:10 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27 9:54 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 10:13 ` Bas Westerbaan
2006-01-27 10:25 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 13:29 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 17:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-28 11:38 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 2:01 ` Rik van Riel
2006-01-28 20:18 ` Graham Murray
2006-01-23 9:09 ` Helge Hafting
2006-01-23 9:52 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-02-02 18:48 GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Shawn Starr
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