programs vanish with 2.6.22+

programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Hello!

Excuse my bad english, I am no native speaker. And please CC me, as I am 
not subscribed!

I am running an amd64 system with a stable gentoo. Today I upgraded to 
the kernel 2.6.22 and noticed many programs to disappear.
I use a kde desktop (3.5.7) and when amarok or kmail crash, normaly 
a "kde-crash-manager" pops up (but that happend very rarely), but not 
with 2.6.22+. It happens often and without any messagebox.
kdesktop, xchat, kicker, konqueror crashed as well.
It happens more often under heavy load. But it can also happen when 
idle. Also I have the feeling that it happens more often on 2.6.23+ I 
might be wrong.

I tried 2.6.23 and the current 2.6.24-rc4, which all show this problem 
aswell!
What has changed in 2.6.21 -> 2.6.22 that could cause such things?
Or who can tell that?
Can I help? How? (I use linux for years and can code, but I never 
debugged anything as big as the kernel...)


Markus

PS: Sorry thats so late, but I normaly stay on the distros stable kernel 
and only try vanilla when something is wrong ;)

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Just forgot to mention:
dmesg gives nothing (/var/log/messages)
the global X log aswell

and in the users .xsession-errors I have:
amarokapp: Fatal IO error: client killed
kdesktop: Fatal IO error: client killed
konqueror: Fatal IO error: client killed
The application 'xchat' lost its connection to the display :0.0;

I dont know what that means, but at least its something ;)

Markus

> Hello!
> 
> Excuse my bad english, I am no native speaker. And please CC me, as I 
am 
> not subscribed!
> 
> I am running an amd64 system with a stable gentoo. Today I upgraded to 
> the kernel 2.6.22 and noticed many programs to disappear.
> I use a kde desktop (3.5.7) and when amarok or kmail crash, normaly 
> a "kde-crash-manager" pops up (but that happend very rarely), but not 
> with 2.6.22+. It happens often and without any messagebox.
> kdesktop, xchat, kicker, konqueror crashed as well.
> It happens more often under heavy load. But it can also happen when 
> idle. Also I have the feeling that it happens more often on 2.6.23+ I 
> might be wrong.
> 
> I tried 2.6.23 and the current 2.6.24-rc4, which all show this problem 
> aswell!
> What has changed in 2.6.21 -> 2.6.22 that could cause such things?
> Or who can tell that?
> Can I help? How? (I use linux for years and can code, but I never 
> debugged anything as big as the kernel...)
> 
> 
> Markus
> 
> PS: Sorry thats so late, but I normaly stay on the distros stable 
kernel 
> and only try vanilla when something is wrong ;)
> 

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Guennadi Liakhovetski]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:

> Just forgot to mention:
> dmesg gives nothing (/var/log/messages)
> the global X log aswell
> 
> and in the users .xsession-errors I have:
> amarokapp: Fatal IO error: client killed
> kdesktop: Fatal IO error: client killed
> konqueror: Fatal IO error: client killed
> The application 'xchat' lost its connection to the display :0.0;
> 
> I dont know what that means, but at least its something ;)

Hm, no good idea, but some possible hints:

1. Ask Gentoo folks - if anyone has seen similar problems
2. RAM test - even if earlier kernels ran stable, the new one might stress 
your RAM differently
3. Are you sure nothing else has changed apart from the kernel?
4. You might try to recompile a vanilla 2.6.23+ kernel and enable as many 
kernel debugging options as you can...
5. Are you sure the installed kernel matches your CPU and your user-space 
64- / 32-bit combination? Don't know whether a wrongly configured kernel 
could cause such problems though

Good luck
Guennadi

> 
> Markus
> 
> > Hello!
> > 
> > Excuse my bad english, I am no native speaker. And please CC me, as I 
> am 
> > not subscribed!
> > 
> > I am running an amd64 system with a stable gentoo. Today I upgraded to 
> > the kernel 2.6.22 and noticed many programs to disappear.
> > I use a kde desktop (3.5.7) and when amarok or kmail crash, normaly 
> > a "kde-crash-manager" pops up (but that happend very rarely), but not 
> > with 2.6.22+. It happens often and without any messagebox.
> > kdesktop, xchat, kicker, konqueror crashed as well.
> > It happens more often under heavy load. But it can also happen when 
> > idle. Also I have the feeling that it happens more often on 2.6.23+ I 
> > might be wrong.
> > 
> > I tried 2.6.23 and the current 2.6.24-rc4, which all show this problem 
> > aswell!
> > What has changed in 2.6.21 -> 2.6.22 that could cause such things?
> > Or who can tell that?
> > Can I help? How? (I use linux for years and can code, but I never 
> > debugged anything as big as the kernel...)
> > 
> > 
> > Markus
> > 
> > PS: Sorry thats so late, but I normaly stay on the distros stable 
> kernel 
> > and only try vanilla when something is wrong ;)
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

---
Guennadi Liakhovetski

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Am Donnerstag, 6. Dezember 2007 schrieb Guennadi Liakhovetski:
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:
> 
> > Just forgot to mention:
> > dmesg gives nothing (/var/log/messages)
> > the global X log aswell
> > 
> > and in the users .xsession-errors I have:
> > amarokapp: Fatal IO error: client killed
> > kdesktop: Fatal IO error: client killed
> > konqueror: Fatal IO error: client killed
> > The application 'xchat' lost its connection to the display :0.0;
> > 
> > I dont know what that means, but at least its something ;)
> 
> Hm, no good idea, but some possible hints:
> 
> 1. Ask Gentoo folks - if anyone has seen similar problems
Noone gave a positiv answer so far.

> 2. RAM test - even if earlier kernels ran stable, the new one might 
stress 
> your RAM differently
Will do that overnight.

> 3. Are you sure nothing else has changed apart from the kernel?
Yes, I have some kernels installed and booted into them without changing 
anything else.

> 4. You might try to recompile a vanilla 2.6.23+ kernel and enable as 
many 
> kernel debugging options as you can...
I try that next.

> 5. Are you sure the installed kernel matches your CPU and your 
user-space 
> 64- / 32-bit combination? Don't know whether a wrongly configured 
kernel 
> could cause such problems though
Everything is "safe". Its a native 64-bit system with "safe" flags.

> 
> Good luck
> Guennadi
> 

I will write when I did a ram-test and am running a 24-rc4 with 
full-debug.
Will also try things from the gentoo-users...


Is there any userspace software that is needed with newer kernels?


Markus


> > 
> > Markus
> > 
> > > Hello!
> > > 
> > > Excuse my bad english, I am no native speaker. And please CC me, 
as I 
> > am 
> > > not subscribed!
> > > 
> > > I am running an amd64 system with a stable gentoo. Today I 
upgraded to 
> > > the kernel 2.6.22 and noticed many programs to disappear.
> > > I use a kde desktop (3.5.7) and when amarok or kmail crash, 
normaly 
> > > a "kde-crash-manager" pops up (but that happend very rarely), but 
not 
> > > with 2.6.22+. It happens often and without any messagebox.
> > > kdesktop, xchat, kicker, konqueror crashed as well.
> > > It happens more often under heavy load. But it can also happen 
when 
> > > idle. Also I have the feeling that it happens more often on 
2.6.23+ I 
> > > might be wrong.
> > > 
> > > I tried 2.6.23 and the current 2.6.24-rc4, which all show this 
problem 
> > > aswell!
> > > What has changed in 2.6.21 -> 2.6.22 that could cause such things?
> > > Or who can tell that?
> > > Can I help? How? (I use linux for years and can code, but I never 
> > > debugged anything as big as the kernel...)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Markus
> > > 
> > > PS: Sorry thats so late, but I normaly stay on the distros stable 
> > kernel 
> > > and only try vanilla when something is wrong ;)
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
linux-kernel" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> > 
> 
> ---
> Guennadi Liakhovetski
> 

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Hi again!

The memtest ran 14 passes (~10h) without an error.

I now have a 2.6.24-rc4 with some debug-options turned on, waiting for 
something to happen... can I just leave it untill a window disappears 
or do I need to manually enable something or run some user-space app?!


Markus

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Guennadi Liakhovetski]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:

> Hi again!
> 
> The memtest ran 14 passes (~10h) without an error.
> 
> I now have a 2.6.24-rc4 with some debug-options turned on, waiting for 
> something to happen... can I just leave it untill a window disappears 
> or do I need to manually enable something or run some user-space app?!

It depends - different options have it differently. Most simple ones are 
just compile-time, so, you don't have to enable them. Look in "help" for 
respective debug-options.

Thanks
Guennadi
---
Guennadi Liakhovetski

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Well, now some windows vanished, but no additional messages were 
produced by kernel. When somebody could tell what I exactly need to 
do... would be nice.
Or a hit, in what direction I should look. Because its really nasty to 
not being able to use a current kernel.

I already rebuild the whole system, as suggested by the gentoo-devs, 
without success.

I could also try to debug/strace/whatever the apps and wait for it to 
disappear.

Just talk to me, I am not able to do this on my own...


Markus

> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:
> 
> > Hi again!
> > 
> > The memtest ran 14 passes (~10h) without an error.
> > 
> > I now have a 2.6.24-rc4 with some debug-options turned on, waiting 
for 
> > something to happen... can I just leave it untill a window 
disappears 
> > or do I need to manually enable something or run some user-space 
app?!
> 
> It depends - different options have it differently. Most simple ones 
are 
> just compile-time, so, you don't have to enable them. Look in "help" 
for 
> respective debug-options.
> 
> Thanks
> Guennadi
> ---
> Guennadi Liakhovetski
> 

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Simon Holm Thøgersen]

fre, 07 12 2007 kl. 23:52 +0100, skrev Markus:
> Well, now some windows vanished, but no additional messages were 
> produced by kernel. When somebody could tell what I exactly need to 
> do... would be nice.
> Or a hit, in what direction I should look. Because its really nasty to 
> not being able to use a current kernel.
> 
> I already rebuild the whole system, as suggested by the gentoo-devs, 
> without success.
> 
> I could also try to debug/strace/whatever the apps and wait for it to 
> disappear.
> 
> Just talk to me, I am not able to do this on my own...
> 
If you feel like you are able to tell whether a specific kernel version
is buggy or not, you might want to try to bisect it. See
Documentation/BUG-HUNTING in the sources, and please ask.


Simon Holm Thøgersen

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

I try that, but it will take a lot of time!

Markus


> fre, 07 12 2007 kl. 23:52 +0100, skrev Markus:
> > Well, now some windows vanished, but no additional messages were 
> > produced by kernel. When somebody could tell what I exactly need to 
> > do... would be nice.
> > Or a hit, in what direction I should look. Because its really nasty 
to 
> > not being able to use a current kernel.
> > 
> > I already rebuild the whole system, as suggested by the gentoo-devs, 
> > without success.
> > 
> > I could also try to debug/strace/whatever the apps and wait for it 
to 
> > disappear.
> > 
> > Just talk to me, I am not able to do this on my own...
> > 
> If you feel like you are able to tell whether a specific kernel 
version
> is buggy or not, you might want to try to bisect it. See
> Documentation/BUG-HUNTING in the sources, and please ask.
> 
> 
> Simon Holm Thøgersen
> 
> 

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Paolo Ornati]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:12:14 +0100
Markus <M4rkusXXL@web.de> wrote:

> I try that, but it will take a lot of time!
> 
> Markus

This problem remembers me something...

http://groups.google.com/group/linux.kernel/browse_thread/thread/85859519ffec7dc8/591a0b3a05bd3596?lnk=gst&q=konqueror+vanish#591a0b3a05bd3596


Are you the same Markus? (or it's just a coincidence?)

It seems the same BUG...

-- 
	Paolo Ornati
	Linux 2.6.24-rc4-g7e1fb765 on x86_64

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Well, no I am not the same markus. And I found that before, but I 
thought it was something about cfs and imo that made it into linus-tree 
in .23 not .22.
But I should perhaps try to change my name, perhaps that fixes it -.-

Markus

PS: am currently doing a bisect, thats really bad: third bisect and the 
kernel is unusable.

> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:12:14 +0100
> Markus <M4rkusXXL@web.de> wrote:
> 
> > I try that, but it will take a lot of time!
> > 
> > Markus
> 
> This problem remembers me something...
> 
> 
http://groups.google.com/group/linux.kernel/browse_thread/thread/85859519ffec7dc8/591a0b3a05bd3596?lnk=gst&q=konqueror+vanish#591a0b3a05bd3596
> 
> 
> Are you the same Markus? (or it's just a coincidence?)
> 
> It seems the same BUG...

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Well, after that I tried to verify that 22 is really fine. 
Unfortunatelly under heavy load its the same... even with .19 (the 
oldes kernel I have still installed)
I just noticed it, because its harder to produce it on .22 and before. 
You guys tuned the kernel so it was easier.
So it must be something in userspace, please excuse me ;)

Markus

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Guennadi Liakhovetski]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:

> Well, now some windows vanished, but no additional messages were 
> produced by kernel. When somebody could tell what I exactly need to 
> do... would be nice.
> Or a hit, in what direction I should look. Because its really nasty to 
> not being able to use a current kernel.
> 
> I already rebuild the whole system, as suggested by the gentoo-devs, 
> without success.
> 
> I could also try to debug/strace/whatever the apps and wait for it to 
> disappear.

Well, you could attach strace to all likely crash candidates like

strace -etrace=none -o/tmp/<pid>.trace -p<pid>

which would at least tell you what signal it caught...

good luck
Guennadi

> 
> Just talk to me, I am not able to do this on my own...
> 
> 
> Markus
> 
> > On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi again!
> > > 
> > > The memtest ran 14 passes (~10h) without an error.
> > > 
> > > I now have a 2.6.24-rc4 with some debug-options turned on, waiting 
> for 
> > > something to happen... can I just leave it untill a window 
> disappears 
> > > or do I need to manually enable something or run some user-space 
> app?!
> > 
> > It depends - different options have it differently. Most simple ones 
> are 
> > just compile-time, so, you don't have to enable them. Look in "help" 
> for 
> > respective debug-options.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Guennadi
> > ---
> > Guennadi Liakhovetski
> > 
> 
> 

---
Guennadi Liakhovetski

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Markus]

Well, just tried it. Started a dozen konquerors and attached strace to 
everyone. When one disapeared, I only got a "Process 9246 detached", 
nothing else is printed or written in the log.

Markus


> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:
> 
> > Well, now some windows vanished, but no additional messages were 
> > produced by kernel. When somebody could tell what I exactly need to 
> > do... would be nice.
> > Or a hit, in what direction I should look. Because its really nasty 
to 
> > not being able to use a current kernel.
> > 
> > I already rebuild the whole system, as suggested by the gentoo-devs, 
> > without success.
> > 
> > I could also try to debug/strace/whatever the apps and wait for it 
to 
> > disappear.
> 
> Well, you could attach strace to all likely crash candidates like
> 
> strace -etrace=none -o/tmp/<pid>.trace -p<pid>
> 
> which would at least tell you what signal it caught...
> 
> good luck
> Guennadi
> 
> > 
> > Just talk to me, I am not able to do this on my own...
> > 
> > 
> > Markus
> > 
> > > On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Markus wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi again!
> > > > 
> > > > The memtest ran 14 passes (~10h) without an error.
> > > > 
> > > > I now have a 2.6.24-rc4 with some debug-options turned on, 
waiting 
> > for 
> > > > something to happen... can I just leave it untill a window 
> > disappears 
> > > > or do I need to manually enable something or run some user-space 
> > app?!
> > > 
> > > It depends - different options have it differently. Most simple 
ones 
> > are 
> > > just compile-time, so, you don't have to enable them. Look 
in "help" 
> > for 
> > > respective debug-options.
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > Guennadi
> > > ---
> > > Guennadi Liakhovetski
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> ---
> Guennadi Liakhovetski
> 

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Patrick Mau]

On Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 01:25:21PM +0100, Markus wrote:
> Well, just tried it. Started a dozen konquerors and attached strace to 
> everyone. When one disapeared, I only got a "Process 9246 detached", 
> nothing else is printed or written in the log.
> 
> Markus

Hallo Markus

Whenever the connection to the X server is dropped the application
using that connection will be terminated by the client library
error handler (KDE/Qt/X11).

Probably the applications simply drop out of their event loop and
terminate, you should see some X11 related error messages in

.xsession-errors

My guess would be that some of the eye-candy in KDE is using
DRI / OpenGL features that might be the cause for mailfunction.

I would suggest you start by disabling DRI / AIGLX rendering
in your xorg.conf and see if your applications work without
all those nifty features.

Below you can find some settings to disable AIGLX, DRI and
composite rendering.

They should be integrated in the configuration sections I
quoted. This is not a complete configuration file.

Best regards,
Patrick

--- <snip> ---

Section "ServerFlags"
 Option "AIGLX" "false"
EndSection

Section "Module"
 Disable "dri"
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
 Option "Composite" "false"
EndSection

--- <snip> ---

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Ray Lee]

On Dec 8, 2007 4:25 AM, Markus <M4rkusXXL@web.de> wrote:
> Well, just tried it. Started a dozen konquerors and attached strace to
> everyone. When one disapeared, I only got a "Process 9246 detached",
> nothing else is printed or written in the log.

You could try an ltrace instead, and see if it's one of the linked
libraries having a problem.

Re: programs vanish with 2.6.22+

[Bill Davidsen]

Markus wrote:
> Well, now some windows vanished, but no additional messages were 
> produced by kernel. When somebody could tell what I exactly need to 
> do... would be nice.
> Or a hit, in what direction I should look. Because its really nasty to 
> not being able to use a current kernel.
> 
> I already rebuild the whole system, as suggested by the gentoo-devs, 
> without success.
> 
> I could also try to debug/strace/whatever the apps and wait for it to 
> disappear.
> 
> Just talk to me, I am not able to do this on my own...
> 
Try running under GNOME if you can, this sounds as if it may be an X 
problem.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot