From: Ian Kent <raven@themaw.net>
To: Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>
Cc: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, Karel Zak <kzak@redhat.com>,
Jeff Layton <jlayton@redhat.com>,
Miklos Szeredi <mszeredi@redhat.com>,
Nicolas Dichtel <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com>,
Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>,
Lennart Poettering <lennart@poettering.net>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
LSM <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Filesystem Information
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 19:13:55 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <c44b1c225b0aec20969aace1ba1b7900ddda5a5e.camel@themaw.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJfpegvQdCr+u51_xkpbS7eMZyNqtnk_tdK1KVhsiCuiFWWJJw@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, 2020-08-05 at 10:00 +0200, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:33 AM Ian Kent <raven@themaw.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2020-08-04 at 16:36 +0200, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> > > And notice how similar the above interface is to getxattr(), or
> > > the
> > > proposed readfile(). Where has the "everything is a file"
> > > philosophy
> > > gone?
> >
> > Maybe, but that philosophy (in a roundabout way) is what's resulted
> > in some of the problems we now have. Granted it's blind application
> > of that philosophy rather than the philosophy itself but that is
> > what happens.
>
> Agree. What people don't seem to realize, even though there are
> blindingly obvious examples, that binary interfaces like the proposed
> fsinfo(2) syscall can also result in a multitude of problems at the
> same time as solving some others.
>
> There's no magic solution in API design, it's not balck and white.
> We just need to strive for a good enough solution. The problem seems
> to be that trying to discuss the merits of other approaches seems to
> hit a brick wall. We just see repeated pull requests from David,
> without any real discussion of the proposed alternatives.
>
> > I get that your comments are driven by the way that philosophy
> > should
> > be applied which is more of a "if it works best doing it that way
> > then
> > do it that way, and that's usually a file".
> >
> > In this case there is a logical division of various types of file
> > system information and the underlying suggestion is maybe it's time
> > to move away from the "everything is a file" hard and fast rule,
> > and get rid of some of the problems that have resulted from it.
> >
> > The notifications is an example, yes, the delivery mechanism is
> > a "file" but the design of the queueing mechanism makes a lot of
> > sense for the throughput that's going to be needed as time marches
> > on. Then there's different sub-systems each with unique information
> > that needs to be deliverable some other way because delivering
> > "all"
> > the information via the notification would be just plain wrong so
> > a multi-faceted information delivery mechanism makes the most
> > sense to allow specific targeted retrieval of individual items of
> > information.
> >
> > But that also supposes your at least open to the idea that "maybe
> > not everything should be a file".
>
> Sure. I've learned pragmatism, although idealist at heart. And I'm
> not saying all API's from David are shit. statx(2) is doing fine.
> It's a simple binary interface that does its job well. Compare the
> header files for statx and fsinfo, though, and maybe you'll see what
> I'm getting at...
Yeah, but I'm biased so not much joy there ... ;)
Ian
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-08-05 20:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-08-03 15:27 [GIT PULL] Mount notifications David Howells
2020-08-03 15:49 ` [GIT PULL] Filesystem Information David Howells
2020-08-03 16:42 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-04 2:15 ` Ian Kent
2020-08-04 14:36 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-05 1:33 ` Ian Kent
2020-08-05 8:00 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-05 11:13 ` Ian Kent [this message]
2020-08-05 8:24 ` file metadata via fs API (was: [GIT PULL] Filesystem Information) Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 13:54 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 14:08 ` Al Viro
2020-08-11 14:22 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 14:31 ` Al Viro
[not found] ` <CAAgocE07=vVKpQhG+rjEGO=NEBKZ02gjg4TRPxECAc+RKrzn=Q@mail.gmail.com>
2020-08-11 14:36 ` Al Viro
2020-08-11 14:36 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 14:42 ` Al Viro
2020-08-11 14:47 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 15:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-11 15:30 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 16:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-11 18:49 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 19:31 ` Lennart Poettering
2020-08-11 19:50 ` Christian Brauner
2020-08-11 19:39 ` Christian Brauner
2020-08-12 0:53 ` Ian Kent
2020-08-11 15:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-11 16:17 ` Casey Schaufler
2020-08-11 16:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-11 20:28 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 20:36 ` Jann Horn
2020-08-11 20:56 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-11 21:17 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-11 21:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-12 7:23 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 14:39 ` Al Viro
2020-08-12 14:46 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 15:08 ` Al Viro
2020-08-12 15:13 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 16:33 ` Al Viro
2020-08-12 17:16 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 17:39 ` Al Viro
2020-08-12 18:33 ` Al Viro
2020-08-12 21:30 ` Al Viro
2020-08-18 9:41 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-18 9:30 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 15:22 ` David Howells
2020-08-11 21:20 ` Al Viro
2020-08-11 21:35 ` Casey Schaufler
2020-08-11 16:05 ` Al Viro
2020-08-11 16:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-11 16:39 ` Al Viro
2020-08-12 10:14 ` Karel Zak
2020-08-12 13:09 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 13:33 ` David Howells
2020-08-12 13:54 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 0:05 ` David Howells
2020-08-12 7:55 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 8:29 ` David Howells
2020-08-12 8:37 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 9:43 ` file metadata via fs API Steven Whitehouse
2020-08-12 10:04 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 11:28 ` Karel Zak
2020-08-12 12:43 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-13 8:52 ` Karel Zak
2020-08-12 13:06 ` David Howells
2020-08-13 1:01 ` Ian Kent
2020-08-12 18:18 ` file metadata via fs API (was: [GIT PULL] Filesystem Information) Linus Torvalds
2020-08-12 19:34 ` file metadata via fs API Steven Whitehouse
2020-08-12 19:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-13 3:44 ` Ian Kent
2020-08-13 10:36 ` Karel Zak
2020-08-14 7:58 ` Lennart Poettering
2020-08-17 11:32 ` Steven Whitehouse
2020-08-17 17:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-17 22:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-18 12:50 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-18 18:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-18 20:18 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-18 20:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-21 13:17 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-19 2:29 ` Al Viro
2020-08-13 3:53 ` file metadata via fs API (was: [GIT PULL] Filesystem Information) Jeffrey E Altman
2020-08-14 17:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-18 15:01 ` Jeffrey E Altman
2020-08-14 8:06 ` Lennart Poettering
2020-08-12 13:54 ` David Howells
2020-08-12 14:10 ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-08-12 14:23 ` David Howells
2020-08-03 22:48 ` [GIT PULL] Mount notifications Ian Kent
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=c44b1c225b0aec20969aace1ba1b7900ddda5a5e.camel@themaw.net \
--to=raven@themaw.net \
--cc=christian@brauner.io \
--cc=dhowells@redhat.com \
--cc=jlayton@redhat.com \
--cc=kzak@redhat.com \
--cc=lennart@poettering.net \
--cc=linux-api@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=miklos@szeredi.hu \
--cc=mszeredi@redhat.com \
--cc=nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com \
--cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
--cc=viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).