Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Bryan O'Sullivan]

Hi, Andi -

I notice that wmb() is a no-op on x86_64 kernels unless
CONFIG_UNORDERED_IO is set.  Is there any particular reason for this?
It's not similarly conditional on other platforms, and as a consequence,
in our driver (which requires a write barrier in some situations for
correctness), I have to add the following piece of ugliness:

#if defined(CONFIG_X86_64) && !defined(CONFIG_UNORDERED_IO)
#define ipath_wmb() asm volatile("sfence" ::: "memory")
#else
#define ipath_wmb() wmb()
#endif

	<b

Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Andi Kleen]

On Wednesday 18 January 2006 17:23, Bryan O'Sullivan wrote:
> Hi, Andi -
> 
> I notice that wmb() is a no-op 

Actually it is a compiler optimizer barrier, not a no-op.

> on x86_64 kernels unless 
> CONFIG_UNORDERED_IO is set. 

Because x86 is architecturally defined as having ordered writes (unless you use 
write combining or non temporal stores which normal kernel code doesn't). So it's 
not needed.

> Is there any particular reason for this? 
> It's not similarly conditional on other platforms, and as a consequence,
> in our driver (which requires a write barrier in some situations for
> correctness), I have to add the following piece of ugliness:
> 
> #if defined(CONFIG_X86_64) && !defined(CONFIG_UNORDERED_IO)
> #define ipath_wmb() asm volatile("sfence" ::: "memory")
> #else
> #define ipath_wmb() wmb()
> #endif

Hmm, I suppose one could add a wc_wmb() or somesuch, but WC 
is currently deeply architecture specific so I'm not sure
how you can even use it portably.

Why do you need the barrier?

-Andi

Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Bryan O'Sullivan]

On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:29 +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:

> Actually it is a compiler optimizer barrier, not a no-op.

Sorry, braino.

> Hmm, I suppose one could add a wc_wmb() or somesuch, but WC 
> is currently deeply architecture specific so I'm not sure
> how you can even use it portably.
> 
> Why do you need the barrier?

On x86_64, we fiddle with the MTRRs to enable write combining, which
makes a huge difference to performance.  It's not clear to me what we
should even do on other architectures, since the only generic entry
point that even exposes write combining is pci_mmap_page_range, which is
for PCI mmap through userspace, and half the arches I've looked at
ignore its write_combine parameter.

	<b

Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Jes Sorensen]

>>>>> "Bryan" == Bryan O'Sullivan <bos@pathscale.com> writes:

Bryan> On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:29 +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
>> Why do you need the barrier?

Bryan> On x86_64, we fiddle with the MTRRs to enable write combining,
Bryan> which makes a huge difference to performance.  It's not clear
Bryan> to me what we should even do on other architectures, since the
Bryan> only generic entry point that even exposes write combining is
Bryan> pci_mmap_page_range, which is for PCI mmap through userspace,
Bryan> and half the arches I've looked at ignore its write_combine
Bryan> parameter.

A job for mmiowb() perhaps?

Cheers,
Jes

Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Bryan O'Sullivan]

On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 12:06 -0500, Jes Sorensen wrote:

> A job for mmiowb() perhaps?

That might be suitable.  It's a no-op on most platforms, but it's only
used by a handful of drivers:

        drivers/scsi/qla1280.c
        drivers/sn/ioc4.c
        drivers/net/bnx2.c
        drivers/net/sky2.c
        drivers/net/s2io.c
        drivers/net/tg3.c

If the semantics were to change so that it really did a write barrier, I
doubt any existing users would notice.  In fact, based on the comments
in some drivers, at least some authors think it does already, when it
typically doesn't.

	<b

Re: [discuss] Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Andi Kleen]

On Wednesday 18 January 2006 18:06, Jes Sorensen wrote:
> >>>>> "Bryan" == Bryan O'Sullivan <bos@pathscale.com> writes:
> 
> Bryan> On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:29 +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
> >> Why do you need the barrier?
> 
> Bryan> On x86_64, we fiddle with the MTRRs to enable write combining,
> Bryan> which makes a huge difference to performance.  It's not clear
> Bryan> to me what we should even do on other architectures, since the
> Bryan> only generic entry point that even exposes write combining is
> Bryan> pci_mmap_page_range, which is for PCI mmap through userspace,
> Bryan> and half the arches I've looked at ignore its write_combine
> Bryan> parameter.
> 
> A job for mmiowb() perhaps?

No, normal IO mappings are also not write combining on x86, so
it's not needed there.

I guess it's best to just define a wmb_wc() for i386/x86-64 right now
and use that in ipath. I suspect it won't compile anywhere else
anyways.

-Andi

Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Roland Dreier]

    Bryan> On x86_64, we fiddle with the MTRRs to enable write
    Bryan> combining, which makes a huge difference to performance.
    Bryan> It's not clear to me what we should even do on other
    Bryan> architectures, since the only generic entry point that even
    Bryan> exposes write combining is pci_mmap_page_range, which is
    Bryan> for PCI mmap through userspace, and half the arches I've
    Bryan> looked at ignore its write_combine parameter.

    Jes> A job for mmiowb() perhaps?

I don't think the semantics of mmiowb() do what is desired here.
mmiowb() is all about ordering writes between separate CPUs, and the
issue at hand here is that write-combining buffers might reorder
writes from a single CPU.

 - R.

Re: [discuss] Re: Why is wmb() a no-op on x86_64?

[Jes Sorensen]

>>>>> "Andi" == Andi Kleen <ak@suse.de> writes:

Andi> On Wednesday 18 January 2006 18:06, Jes Sorensen wrote:
>>  A job for mmiowb() perhaps?

Andi> No, normal IO mappings are also not write combining on x86, so
Andi> it's not needed there.

True, just seemed nasty to have yet another special purpose wmb()
variation.

Cheers,
Jes