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From: George Spelvin <lkml@SDF.ORG>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: netdev@vger.kernel.org, w@1wt.eu, aksecurity@gmail.com,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, edumazet@google.com,
	Jason@zx2c4.com, luto@kernel.org, keescook@chromium.org,
	tglx@linutronix.de, peterz@infradead.org, tytso@mit.edu,
	lkml.mplumb@gmail.com, stephen@networkplumber.org
Subject: Re: Flaw in "random32: update the net random state on interrupt and activity"
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 19:03:43 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200808190343.GB27941@SDF.ORG> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <7E03D29C-2982-43C9-81E6-DB46FF4D369E@amacapital.net>

On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 10:07:51AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>>    - Cryptographically strong ChaCha, batched
>>    - Cryptographically strong ChaCha, with anti-backtracking.
> 
> I think we should just anti-backtrack everything.  With the "fast key 
> erasure" construction, already implemented in my patchset for the 
> buffered bytes, this is extremely fast.

The problem is that this is really *amorized* key erasure, and
requires large buffers to amortize the cost down to a reasonable
level.

E,g, if using 256-bit (32-byte) keys, 5% overhead would require generating
640 bytes at a time.

Are we okay with ~1K per core for this?  Which we might have to
throw away occasionally to incorporate fresh seed material?

You're right that the simplification in usage is a benefit.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-08-08 19:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 88+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-08-08 15:26 Flaw in "random32: update the net random state on interrupt and activity" George Spelvin
2020-08-08 17:07 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-08 18:08   ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-08 18:13   ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-08 19:03   ` George Spelvin [this message]
2020-08-08 19:49     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-08 21:29       ` George Spelvin
2020-08-08 17:44 ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-08 18:19   ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-08 18:53     ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-08 20:47     ` George Spelvin
2020-08-08 20:52       ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-08 22:27         ` George Spelvin
2020-08-09  2:07           ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-11 16:01             ` Eric Dumazet
2020-08-08 19:18   ` Florian Westphal
2020-08-08 20:59     ` George Spelvin
2020-08-08 21:18     ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-08 20:08   ` George Spelvin
2020-08-08 20:47     ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-09  6:57 ` [DRAFT PATCH] random32: make prandom_u32() output unpredictable George Spelvin
2020-08-09  9:38   ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-09 17:06     ` George Spelvin
2020-08-09 17:33       ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-09 18:30         ` George Spelvin
2020-08-09 19:16           ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-10 11:47           ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-10 12:01             ` David Laight
2020-08-10 14:48               ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-10 12:03             ` Florian Westphal
2020-08-10 14:53               ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-10 16:31             ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-10 16:58               ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-10 17:45                 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-10 18:01                   ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-10 21:04                   ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-11  5:26                     ` George Spelvin
2020-08-11  5:37                       ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-11  3:47             ` George Spelvin
2020-08-11  3:58               ` Willy Tarreau
     [not found]     ` <fdbc7d7d-cba2-ef94-9bde-b3ccae0cfaac@gmail.com>
2020-08-09 21:10       ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-09 21:48         ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-09 13:50   ` Randy Dunlap
     [not found]   ` <CANEQ_++a4YcwQQ2XhuguTono9=RxbSRVsMw08zLWBWJ_wxG2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
2020-08-09 16:08     ` George Spelvin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-08-12  6:03 Flaw in "random32: update the net random state on interrupt and activity" Sedat Dilek
2020-08-12  6:35 ` Sedat Dilek
2020-08-12  7:13   ` Sedat Dilek
2020-08-12 15:16 ` Eric Dumazet
2020-08-12 16:20   ` Sedat Dilek
2020-08-12 16:24     ` Eric Dumazet
2020-08-12 16:38       ` Sedat Dilek
2020-08-19  9:51         ` Sedat Dilek
2021-01-08 13:08       ` Sedat Dilek
2021-01-08 13:51         ` Sedat Dilek
2021-01-08 15:41           ` Eric Dumazet
2021-01-08 21:32             ` Sedat Dilek
     [not found] <9f74230f-ba4d-2e19-5751-79dc2ab59877@gmail.com>
2020-08-05  0:57 ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-05  1:02 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-05  2:49 ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-05 15:34   ` tytso
2020-08-05 16:06     ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-05 19:38       ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-05 22:21         ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-06  6:30           ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-06 17:18             ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-07  7:03               ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-07 16:52                 ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-07 17:43                   ` Willy Tarreau
     [not found]                     ` <C74EC3BC-F892-416F-A95C-4ACFC96EEECE@amacapital.net>
2020-08-07 18:04                       ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-07 18:10                       ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-07 19:08                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-07 19:21                           ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-07 19:33                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-07 19:56                               ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-07 20:16                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-07 20:24                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-07 19:59                     ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-07 22:19                       ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-07 22:45                         ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-07 23:11                           ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-05 22:05       ` tytso
2020-08-05 23:03         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-08-06 17:00         ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-05 16:24     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2020-08-05 16:53     ` Willy Tarreau
2020-08-05 15:44   ` Marc Plumb
2020-08-05 16:39     ` Linus Torvalds
2020-08-05 23:49       ` Stephen Hemminger

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