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From: Alexey Avramov <hakavlad0@seznam.cz>
To: mhocko@suse.com
Cc: Hi-Angel@yandex.ru, Michael@michaellarabel.com,
	ak@linux.intel.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, axboe@kernel.dk,
	catalin.marinas@arm.com, corbet@lwn.net,
	dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, hakavlad@inbox.lv,
	hannes@cmpxchg.org, hdanton@sina.com, jsbarnes@google.com,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	mgorman@suse.de, page-reclaim@google.com, riel@surriel.com,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, vbabka@suse.cz, will@kernel.org,
	willy@infradead.org, x86@kernel.org, ying.huang@intel.com,
	yuzhao@google.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 6/9] mm: multigenerational lru: aging
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:00:55 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220114020055.0cd8697a@PC> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Yd109jeRllJbjV9o@dhcp22.suse.cz>

> But the later one is more complex and a proper
> handling really depends on the particular workload

That is why I advocate the introduction of new tunables.

> There are workloads which prefer a temporary trashing over its working
> set during a peak memory demand rather than an OOM kill

OK, for such cases, the OOM handles can be set to 0.
It can even be the default value.

> On the other side workloads that are
> latency sensitive

I daresay that this is the case with most workloads.
An internet server that falls into thrashing is a dead server.

> no simple solution can be applied to the whole

There are several solutions and they can be taken into the kernel
at the same time, they all work:
- min_ttl_ms + MGLRU
- vm.min_filelist_kbytes-like knobs
- PSI-based solutions.

> For the most steady trashing situations I have
> seen the userspace with mlocked memory and the code can make a forward
> progress and mediate the situation.

I still don't see a problem in making all the kernel-space solutions
in the kernel.

_______________________________________________
linux-arm-kernel mailing list
linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Alexey Avramov <hakavlad0@seznam.cz>
To: mhocko@suse.com
Cc: Hi-Angel@yandex.ru, Michael@michaellarabel.com,
	ak@linux.intel.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, axboe@kernel.dk,
	catalin.marinas@arm.com, corbet@lwn.net,
	dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, hakavlad@inbox.lv,
	hannes@cmpxchg.org, hdanton@sina.com, jsbarnes@google.com,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	mgorman@suse.de, page-reclaim@google.com, riel@surriel.com,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, vbabka@suse.cz, will@kernel.org,
	willy@infradead.org, x86@kernel.org, ying.huang@intel.com,
	yuzhao@google.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 6/9] mm: multigenerational lru: aging
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:00:55 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220114020055.0cd8697a@PC> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Yd109jeRllJbjV9o@dhcp22.suse.cz>

> But the later one is more complex and a proper
> handling really depends on the particular workload

That is why I advocate the introduction of new tunables.

> There are workloads which prefer a temporary trashing over its working
> set during a peak memory demand rather than an OOM kill

OK, for such cases, the OOM handles can be set to 0.
It can even be the default value.

> On the other side workloads that are
> latency sensitive

I daresay that this is the case with most workloads.
An internet server that falls into thrashing is a dead server.

> no simple solution can be applied to the whole

There are several solutions and they can be taken into the kernel
at the same time, they all work:
- min_ttl_ms + MGLRU
- vm.min_filelist_kbytes-like knobs
- PSI-based solutions.

> For the most steady trashing situations I have
> seen the userspace with mlocked memory and the code can make a forward
> progress and mediate the situation.

I still don't see a problem in making all the kernel-space solutions
in the kernel.

  reply	other threads:[~2022-01-13 17:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 223+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-04 20:22 [PATCH v6 0/9] Multigenerational LRU Framework Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 1/9] mm: x86, arm64: add arch_has_hw_pte_young() Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-05 10:45   ` Will Deacon
2022-01-05 10:45     ` Will Deacon
2022-01-05 20:47     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-05 20:47       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-06 10:30       ` Will Deacon
2022-01-06 10:30         ` Will Deacon
2022-01-07  7:25         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07  7:25           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11 14:19           ` Will Deacon
2022-01-11 14:19             ` Will Deacon
2022-01-11 22:27             ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11 22:27               ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 2/9] mm: x86: add CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_NONLEAF_PMD_YOUNG Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 21:24   ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-04 21:24     ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 3/9] mm/vmscan.c: refactor shrink_node() Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 4/9] mm: multigenerational lru: groundwork Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 21:34   ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-04 21:34     ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-11  8:16   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-11  8:16     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-12  2:16     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12  2:16       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 5/9] mm: multigenerational lru: mm_struct list Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07  9:06   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07  9:06     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-08  0:19     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-08  0:19       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 15:21       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 15:21         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12  8:08         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12  8:08           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 6/9] mm: multigenerational lru: aging Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-06 16:06   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-06 16:06     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-06 21:27     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-06 21:27       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07  8:43       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07  8:43         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07 21:12         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07 21:12           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-06 16:12   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-06 16:12     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-06 21:41     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-06 21:41       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07  8:55       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07  8:55         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07  9:00         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07  9:00           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10  3:58           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10  3:58             ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 14:37             ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 14:37               ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-13  9:43               ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13  9:43                 ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13 12:02                 ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-13 12:02                   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-19  6:31                   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-19  6:31                     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-19  9:44                     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-19  9:44                       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 15:01     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 15:01       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 16:01       ` Vlastimil Babka
2022-01-10 16:01         ` Vlastimil Babka
2022-01-10 16:25         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 16:25           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-11 23:16       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11 23:16         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12 10:28         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12 10:28           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-13  9:25           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13  9:25             ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07 13:11   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07 13:11     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07 23:36     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07 23:36       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 15:35       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 15:35         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-11  1:18         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11  1:18           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11  9:00           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-11  9:00             ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]         ` <1641900108.61dd684cb0e59@mail.inbox.lv>
2022-01-11 12:15           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-11 12:15             ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-13 17:00             ` Alexey Avramov [this message]
2022-01-13 17:00               ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-11 14:22         ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-11 14:22           ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-07 14:44   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07 14:44     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10  4:47     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10  4:47       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 10:54       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 10:54         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-19  7:04         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-19  7:04           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-19  9:42           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-19  9:42             ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-23 21:28             ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-23 21:28               ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-24 14:01               ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-24 14:01                 ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 16:57   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 16:57     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12  1:01     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12  1:01       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12 10:17       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12 10:17         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12 23:43         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12 23:43           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13 11:57           ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-13 11:57             ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-23 21:40             ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-23 21:40               ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 7/9] mm: multigenerational lru: eviction Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11 10:37   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-11 10:37     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-12  8:05     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12  8:05       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 8/9] mm: multigenerational lru: user interface Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 10:27   ` Mike Rapoport
2022-01-10 10:27     ` Mike Rapoport
2022-01-12  8:35     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12  8:35       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-12 10:31       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12 10:31         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-12 15:45       ` Mike Rapoport
2022-01-12 15:45         ` Mike Rapoport
2022-01-13  9:47         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13  9:47           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13 10:31   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-13 10:31     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-13 23:02     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13 23:02       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-14  5:20       ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-14  5:20         ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-01-14  6:50         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-14  6:50           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 9/9] mm: multigenerational lru: Kconfig Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:22   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 21:39   ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-04 21:39     ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-04 20:22 ` [PATCH v6 0/9] Multigenerational LRU Framework Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:30 ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 20:30   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-04 21:43   ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-04 21:43     ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-05 21:12     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-05 21:12       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07  9:38   ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07  9:38     ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-07 18:45     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-07 18:45       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 15:39       ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 15:39         ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-10 22:04         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 22:04           ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 22:46           ` Jesse Barnes
2022-01-10 22:46             ` Jesse Barnes
2022-01-11  1:41             ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-11  1:41               ` Linus Torvalds
2022-01-11 10:40             ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-11 10:40               ` Michal Hocko
2022-01-11  8:41   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11  8:41     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-11  8:53     ` Holger Hoffstätte
2022-01-11  8:53       ` Holger Hoffstätte
2022-01-11  9:26     ` Jan Alexander Steffens (heftig)
2022-01-11 16:04     ` Shuang Zhai
2022-01-11 16:04       ` Shuang Zhai
2022-01-12  1:46     ` Suleiman Souhlal
2022-01-12  1:46       ` Suleiman Souhlal
2022-01-12  6:07     ` Sofia Trinh
2022-01-12  6:07       ` Sofia Trinh
2022-01-12 16:17       ` Daniel Byrne
2022-01-18  9:21     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-18  9:21       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-18  9:36     ` Donald Carr
2022-01-18  9:36       ` Donald Carr
2022-01-19 20:19     ` Steven Barrett
2022-01-19 20:19       ` Steven Barrett
2022-01-19 22:25     ` Brian Geffon
2022-01-19 22:25       ` Brian Geffon
2022-01-05  2:44 ` Shuang Zhai
2022-01-05  2:44   ` Shuang Zhai
2022-01-05  8:55 ` SeongJae Park
2022-01-05  8:55   ` SeongJae Park
2022-01-05 10:53   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-05 10:53     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-05 11:12     ` Borislav Petkov
2022-01-05 11:12       ` Borislav Petkov
2022-01-05 11:25     ` SeongJae Park
2022-01-05 11:25       ` SeongJae Park
2022-01-05 21:06       ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-05 21:06         ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-10 14:49 ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-10 14:49   ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-11 10:24 ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-11 10:24   ` Alexey Avramov
2022-01-12 20:56 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2022-01-12 20:56   ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2022-01-13  8:59   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-13  8:59     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-23  5:43 ` Barry Song
2022-01-23  5:43   ` Barry Song
2022-01-25  6:48   ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-25  6:48     ` Yu Zhao
2022-01-28  8:54     ` Barry Song
2022-01-28  8:54       ` Barry Song
2022-02-08  9:16       ` Yu Zhao
2022-02-08  9:16         ` Yu Zhao

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