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From: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
Cc: Chase Venters <chase.venters@clientec.com>,
	"linux-os \\(Dick Johnson\\)" <linux-os@analogic.com>,
	Kyle Moffett <mrmacman_g4@mac.com>, Marc Perkel <marc@perkel.com>,
	"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@wolfmountaingroup.com>,
	Patrick McLean <pmclean@cs.ubishops.ca>,
	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@osdl.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:26:30 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1138620390.31089.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601272101510.3192@evo.osdl.org>

On Gwe, 2006-01-27 at 21:06 -0500, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > Not correct. See section 9.
> 
> Sorry, I think you're wrong.
> 
> We've _always_ said which license explicitly. It's in the COPYING file.
> 
> Even before the clarification, the COPYING file has always said 
> 
> 
>                     GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
>                        Version 2, June 1991


--
If the Program specifies a version number of this License which applies
to it and "any later version", you have the option of following the
terms and conditions either of that version or of any later version
published by the Free Software Foundation.  If the Program does not
specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version
ever published by the Free Software Foundation.
--

"COPYING" is the license not the program. If it were the program you
would be violating the GPL as the GPL license text is not itself GPL
compatible. It is also not a statement of the version of the software
but a statement of the version of the document itself. Both seem quite
self evident and clear. Since the document itself provides choices for
versions to be applied it cannot be said to imply a version either.

Nowdays you specifically state version 2 then reproduce the license
document. That likewise seems self evident and clear. Section 9 probably
gives you the right to do that for any code that did not specify a
version rule already.

You might also want to ask "if the FSF COPYING text specified the
program version as you claim then how would you specify versions
differently". And likewise "How come the FSF itself, author of the
license, distributes its default COPYING file with code clearly intended
and marked to be GPL v2 or later".

In short your interpretation of the past state of affairs would not
stand up to scrutiny.

> If you distribute a program, and you just say "I license this under the 
> GPL", THEN you don't specify a verion.

And merely adding the copying file likewise is still not specifying a
version. You may be *implying* one but that is not specifying.

> Linux kernel files don't say "This is licensed under the GPL". Not mine, 
> at least. I don't see the point, and I never have. There's a COPYING file 

The point is to avoid ambiguity. Consider the statement in clause 2

--
In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program
with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of
a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under
the scope of this License.
--

The COPYING file is mere aggregation - it is a seperately licensed and
independant work to the program with incompatible conditions. In the
kernel case this does not matter as you included text with COPYING to
make the intent clear, and there is no doubt, nor alternate licenses.

Consider however taking BSD 2 clause licensed code and relicensing it
GPL with changes. If the GPL was merely placed with the code it would
not be clear that the GPL now applied to it, especially if there are
other independant GPL programs in the same archive. The advice text with
the GPL itself thus provides for the 'fail safe' worst case scenario
rather than neccessarily addressing all cases in the minimal and neatest
fashion. Lawyers dislike amibguity because it causes expensive problems
later on.

(Also historically an assertion of copyright was neccessary avoid being
public domain in the USA and some other countries.)

Alan


  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-01-30 11:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 214+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-01-20 16:49 GPL V3 and Linux Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:11 ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-20 19:34   ` Patrick McLean
2006-01-20 18:22     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 18:30       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:45     ` Alan Cox
2006-01-25 18:46     ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 17:14       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 17:30         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 19:24           ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 19:50             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-25 20:44               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-25 21:20                 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-25 22:39                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-25 23:26                     ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 17:59                     ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 16:28                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 18:25                       ` Filip Brcic
     [not found]                         ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601261233150.17225@turbotaz.ourhouse>
2006-01-26 16:55                           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 22:54                             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27  2:15                             ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  2:23                               ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27  2:37                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  2:53                                   ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27 19:50                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  3:40                                   ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-27  7:34                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-01-27  8:09                               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27 13:38                               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 19:50                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 20:30                                   ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 21:12                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 19:30                                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 15:56                               ` Roland Kuhn
2006-01-26 18:52                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 18:53                       ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57                         ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 19:22                           ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 19:52                             ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:04                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 20:21                                 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:51                                   ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-26 22:28                                   ` GPL V3 and Linux - V3 adds new restrictions Marc Perkel
2006-01-27  6:58                                     ` sean
2006-01-27  6:58                                       ` sean
2006-01-28  4:44                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-26 19:33                           ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 22:16                     ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 22:23                       ` Al Viro
2006-01-28  1:33                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 19:45                         ` Michael Buesch
2006-01-28 19:04                           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 10:46                     ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 13:39                       ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 14:00                         ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:18                           ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 14:42                             ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 15:20                               ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 15:32                                 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:46                           ` Chris Bergeron
2006-01-27 14:47                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-28  1:53                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 23:23                           ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-28  1:46                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30  7:00                           ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2006-01-31 23:18                             ` David Schwartz
2006-01-28  4:39                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  4:57                         ` Chris Adams
2006-01-28 20:38                         ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-29 14:30                         ` Matthias Urlichs
2006-01-28 15:38                       ` Florian Weimer
2006-01-27 21:33                     ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28  5:38                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-28  8:31                         ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28 10:37                           ` Peter Read
2006-01-30 18:15                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-30 19:43                             ` Glauber de Oliveira Costa
2006-01-30 22:00                               ` Filip Brcic
     [not found]                                 ` <5d6222a80601302012v22196faci3ce81320fb534f30@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-01 15:30                                   ` Georg C. F. Greve
2006-02-01 16:32                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-01 22:31                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:43                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02  0:18                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02  8:39                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02  9:00                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02  9:32                                         ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 10:30                                           ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-04 17:45                                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-02-02 10:46                                           ` James Bruce
2006-02-02 11:13                                             ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 12:31                                               ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 13:31                                                 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 16:23                                                   ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 11:50                                           ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 16:04                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:40                                             ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02  9:37                                         ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 14:45                                           ` Gene Heskett
2006-02-02 14:38                                         ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02 16:19                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:08                                             ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 17:44                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:54                                                 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 18:12                                                   ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-02-02 18:27                                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-06 16:11                                                       ` Horst von Brand
2006-02-02 18:53                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 19:20                                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 19:46                                                       ` Mark v Wolher
2006-02-02 19:52                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 23:07                                                         ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 23:52                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-03  8:14                                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 18:13                                                 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-02-02 18:49                                                   ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 19:11                                                     ` Christopher Friesen
2006-02-02 19:18                                                       ` Lee Revell
2006-02-05  3:58                                                       ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-05  7:06                                                         ` Zan Lynx
2006-02-06 21:07                                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-02-06 22:38                                                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-07 13:44                                                             ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-07 13:40                                                           ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-03 21:33                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-02-01 16:06                               ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 22:02                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-02-02 22:24                                   ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 23:04                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
     [not found]                     ` <1138387136.26811.8.camel@localhost>
2006-01-28  2:06                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  5:22                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  6:25                           ` Al Viro
2006-01-28 23:14                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30 11:26                         ` Alan Cox [this message]
2006-01-31 17:57                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 17:24                             ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 19:07                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 18:48                                 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:38                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 19:57                                     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-02-02 19:52                                       ` Matan Peled
     [not found]                                         ` <3e1162e60602021207o5893055fqe8a20c99ff8a19b6@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-02 20:29                                           ` Matan Peled
2006-01-31 21:45                                     ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-31 21:47                                       ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-31 22:25                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01  6:52                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-01-31 22:04                                     ` Rene Herman
2006-01-31 23:08                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 23:32                                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01  0:20                                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01 14:29                                         ` Rene Herman
2006-02-01 22:13                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:29                                             ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02  0:01                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02  0:16                                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02  1:08                                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02  9:50                                                 ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02  6:39                                               ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-02  6:57                                                 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-02  7:11                                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03  3:56                                                     ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  5:35                                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03 13:31                                                         ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  3:35                                                   ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  5:35                                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-02-01 22:46                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 12:31                                           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-01-31 23:48                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01  0:18                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01  0:45                                         ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 19:55                                 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:10                                   ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:16                                     ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:27                                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 23:57                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01 10:01                                   ` Rogier Wolff
2006-02-01 13:59                                     ` GPL V3 -- PLEA FOR SANITY Theodore Ts'o
2006-01-31 20:32                             ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-31 20:43                               ` Josh Boyer
2006-02-01  0:06                             ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01  1:02                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26  0:53                 ` Kurt Wall
2006-01-21  2:27 ` GPL V3 and Linux Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21  4:08   ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21  5:56     ` Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21 18:28       ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21 19:01       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-01-21 20:43       ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-23 22:10         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24  0:34           ` Chase Venters
2006-01-24  0:52           ` Harald Arnesen
2006-01-24  1:55             ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-24  3:08               ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-24  9:10               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-24 15:49               ` Alan Cox
2006-01-24  9:37             ` Wartan Hachaturow
2006-01-24 10:23           ` David Schwartz
2006-01-24 10:38             ` Lee Revell
2006-01-24 13:53             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24 16:13               ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25  1:21                 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-25  9:42                   ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-25 16:02                     ` [OT] " Steven Rostedt
2006-01-27  3:10                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27  9:54                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 10:13                         ` Bas Westerbaan
2006-01-27 10:25                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 13:29                         ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 17:51                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-28 11:38                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27  2:01                   ` Rik van Riel
2006-01-28 20:18                   ` Graham Murray
2006-01-23  9:09       ` Helge Hafting
2006-01-23  9:52       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-02-02 18:48 GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Shawn Starr

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