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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Pierre Ossman <drzeus-list@drzeus.cx>
Cc: Karim Yaghmour <karim@opersys.com>,
	Filip Brcic <brcha@users.sourceforge.net>,
	Glauber de Oliveira Costa <glommer@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Horsten <thomas@horsten.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:00:54 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602020044520.21884@g5.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <43E1C55A.7090801@drzeus.cx>



On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Pierre Ossman wrote:
> 
> The point is not only getting access to the source code, but also being able
> to change it. Being able to freely study the code is only half of the beauty
> of the GPL. The other half, being able to change it, can be very effectively
> stopped using DRM.

No it cannot.

Sure, DRM may mean that you can not _install_ or _run_ your changes on 
somebody elses hardware. But it in no way changes the fact that you got 
all the source code, and you can make changes (and use their changes) to 
it. That requirement has always been there, even with plain GPLv2. You 
have the source.

The difference? The hardware may only run signed kernels. The fact that 
the hardware is closed is a _hardware_ license issue. Not a software 
license issue. I'd suggest you take it up with your hardware vendor, and 
quite possibly just decide to not buy the hardware. Vote with your feet. 
Join the OpenCores groups. Make your own FPGA's.

And it's important to realize that signed kernels that you can't run in 
modified form under certain circumstances is not at all a bad idea in many 
cases.

For example, distributions signing the kernel modules (that are 
distributed under the GPL) that _they_ have compiled, and having their 
kernels either refuse to load them entirely (under a "secure policy") or 
marking the resulting kernel as "Tainted" (under a "less secure" policy) 
is a GOOD THING.

Notice how the current GPLv3 draft pretty clearly says that Red Hat would 
have to distribute their private keys so that anybody sign their own 
versions of the modules they recompile, in order to re-create their own 
versions of the signed binaries that Red Hat creates. That's INSANE.

Btw, what about signed RPM archives? How well do you think a secure 
auto-updater would work if it cannot trust digital signatures?

I think a lot of people may find that the GPLv3 "anti-DRM" measures aren't 
all that wonderful after all.

Because digital signatures and cryptography aren't just "bad DRM". They 
very much are "good security" too.

Babies and bathwater..

		Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2006-02-02  9:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 214+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-01-20 16:49 GPL V3 and Linux Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:11 ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-20 19:34   ` Patrick McLean
2006-01-20 18:22     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 18:30       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:45     ` Alan Cox
2006-01-25 18:46     ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 17:14       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 17:30         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 19:24           ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 19:50             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-25 20:44               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-25 21:20                 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-25 22:39                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-25 23:26                     ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 17:59                     ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 16:28                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 18:25                       ` Filip Brcic
     [not found]                         ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601261233150.17225@turbotaz.ourhouse>
2006-01-26 16:55                           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 22:54                             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27  2:15                             ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  2:23                               ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27  2:37                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  2:53                                   ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27 19:50                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  3:40                                   ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-27  7:34                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-01-27  8:09                               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27 13:38                               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 19:50                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 20:30                                   ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 21:12                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 19:30                                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 15:56                               ` Roland Kuhn
2006-01-26 18:52                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 18:53                       ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57                         ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 19:22                           ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 19:52                             ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:04                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 20:21                                 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:51                                   ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-26 22:28                                   ` GPL V3 and Linux - V3 adds new restrictions Marc Perkel
2006-01-27  6:58                                     ` sean
2006-01-27  6:58                                       ` sean
2006-01-28  4:44                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-26 19:33                           ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 22:16                     ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 22:23                       ` Al Viro
2006-01-28  1:33                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 19:45                         ` Michael Buesch
2006-01-28 19:04                           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 10:46                     ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 13:39                       ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 14:00                         ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:18                           ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 14:42                             ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 15:20                               ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 15:32                                 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:46                           ` Chris Bergeron
2006-01-27 14:47                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-28  1:53                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 23:23                           ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-28  1:46                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30  7:00                           ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2006-01-31 23:18                             ` David Schwartz
2006-01-28  4:39                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  4:57                         ` Chris Adams
2006-01-28 20:38                         ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-29 14:30                         ` Matthias Urlichs
2006-01-28 15:38                       ` Florian Weimer
2006-01-27 21:33                     ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28  5:38                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-28  8:31                         ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28 10:37                           ` Peter Read
2006-01-30 18:15                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-30 19:43                             ` Glauber de Oliveira Costa
2006-01-30 22:00                               ` Filip Brcic
     [not found]                                 ` <5d6222a80601302012v22196faci3ce81320fb534f30@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-01 15:30                                   ` Georg C. F. Greve
2006-02-01 16:32                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-01 22:31                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:43                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02  0:18                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02  8:39                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02  9:00                                       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2006-02-02  9:32                                         ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 10:30                                           ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-04 17:45                                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-02-02 10:46                                           ` James Bruce
2006-02-02 11:13                                             ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 12:31                                               ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 13:31                                                 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 16:23                                                   ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 11:50                                           ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 16:04                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:40                                             ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02  9:37                                         ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 14:45                                           ` Gene Heskett
2006-02-02 14:38                                         ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02 16:19                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:08                                             ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 17:44                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:54                                                 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 18:12                                                   ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-02-02 18:27                                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-06 16:11                                                       ` Horst von Brand
2006-02-02 18:53                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 19:20                                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 19:46                                                       ` Mark v Wolher
2006-02-02 19:52                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 23:07                                                         ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 23:52                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-03  8:14                                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 18:13                                                 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-02-02 18:49                                                   ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 19:11                                                     ` Christopher Friesen
2006-02-02 19:18                                                       ` Lee Revell
2006-02-05  3:58                                                       ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-05  7:06                                                         ` Zan Lynx
2006-02-06 21:07                                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-02-06 22:38                                                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-07 13:44                                                             ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-07 13:40                                                           ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-03 21:33                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-02-01 16:06                               ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 22:02                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-02-02 22:24                                   ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 23:04                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
     [not found]                     ` <1138387136.26811.8.camel@localhost>
2006-01-28  2:06                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  5:22                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  6:25                           ` Al Viro
2006-01-28 23:14                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30 11:26                         ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 17:57                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 17:24                             ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 19:07                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 18:48                                 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:38                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 19:57                                     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-02-02 19:52                                       ` Matan Peled
     [not found]                                         ` <3e1162e60602021207o5893055fqe8a20c99ff8a19b6@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-02 20:29                                           ` Matan Peled
2006-01-31 21:45                                     ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-31 21:47                                       ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-31 22:25                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01  6:52                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-01-31 22:04                                     ` Rene Herman
2006-01-31 23:08                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 23:32                                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01  0:20                                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01 14:29                                         ` Rene Herman
2006-02-01 22:13                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:29                                             ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02  0:01                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02  0:16                                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02  1:08                                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02  9:50                                                 ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02  6:39                                               ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-02  6:57                                                 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-02  7:11                                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03  3:56                                                     ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  5:35                                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03 13:31                                                         ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  3:35                                                   ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  5:35                                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-02-01 22:46                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 12:31                                           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-01-31 23:48                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01  0:18                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01  0:45                                         ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 19:55                                 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:10                                   ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:16                                     ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:27                                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 23:57                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01 10:01                                   ` Rogier Wolff
2006-02-01 13:59                                     ` GPL V3 -- PLEA FOR SANITY Theodore Ts'o
2006-01-31 20:32                             ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-31 20:43                               ` Josh Boyer
2006-02-01  0:06                             ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01  1:02                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26  0:53                 ` Kurt Wall
2006-01-21  2:27 ` GPL V3 and Linux Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21  4:08   ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21  5:56     ` Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21 18:28       ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21 19:01       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-01-21 20:43       ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-23 22:10         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24  0:34           ` Chase Venters
2006-01-24  0:52           ` Harald Arnesen
2006-01-24  1:55             ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-24  3:08               ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-24  9:10               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-24 15:49               ` Alan Cox
2006-01-24  9:37             ` Wartan Hachaturow
2006-01-24 10:23           ` David Schwartz
2006-01-24 10:38             ` Lee Revell
2006-01-24 13:53             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24 16:13               ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25  1:21                 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-25  9:42                   ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-25 16:02                     ` [OT] " Steven Rostedt
2006-01-27  3:10                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27  9:54                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 10:13                         ` Bas Westerbaan
2006-01-27 10:25                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 13:29                         ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 17:51                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-28 11:38                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27  2:01                   ` Rik van Riel
2006-01-28 20:18                   ` Graham Murray
2006-01-23  9:09       ` Helge Hafting
2006-01-23  9:52       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-02-02 18:48 GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Shawn Starr

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