From: Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>
To: Bill Huey <billh@gnuppy.monkey.org>
Cc: Peter W?chtler <pwaechtler@mac.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>, Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:11:32 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020923191132.D26887@mark.mielke.cc> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020923230122.GA3642@gnuppy.monkey.org>; from billh@gnuppy.monkey.org on Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 04:01:22PM -0700
On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 04:01:22PM -0700, Bill Huey wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 06:44:23PM -0400, Mark Mielke wrote:
> > Certainly the above descriptions are not fully accurate, or complete,
> > and it is possible that the M:N threading would make a fair compromise
> > between OS thread sand user-space threads, however, if user-space threads
> > requires all this extra work, and M:N threads requires some extra work,
> > some less work, and extra book keeping and system calls, why couldn't
> > OS threads by themselves be more efficient?
> Crazy synchronization by non-web-server like applications. Who knows. I
> personally can't think up really clear example at this time since I don't
> do that kind of programming, but I'm sure concurrency experts can...
> I'm just not one of those people.
I do not find it to be profitable to discourage the people working on
this project. If they fail, nobody loses. If they succeed, they can
re-invent the math behind threading, and Linux ends up on the forefront
of operating systems offering the technology.
As for 'crazy synchronization', solutions such as the FUTEX have no
real negative aspects. It wasn't long ago that the FUTEX did not
exist. Why couldn't innovation make 'crazy synchronization by
non-web-server like applications' more efficient using kernel threads?
Concurrency experts would welcome the change. Concurrent 'experts'
would not welcome the change, as it would force them to have to
re-learn everything they know, effectively obsoleting their 'expert'
status. (note the difference between the unquoted, and the quoted...)
Cheers, and good luck...
mark
--
mark@mielke.cc/markm@ncf.ca/markm@nortelnetworks.com __________________________
. . _ ._ . . .__ . . ._. .__ . . . .__ | Neighbourhood Coder
|\/| |_| |_| |/ |_ |\/| | |_ | |/ |_ |
| | | | | \ | \ |__ . | | .|. |__ |__ | \ |__ | Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them...
http://mark.mielke.cc/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-09-23 23:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-09-22 18:55 [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1 Peter Waechtler
2002-09-22 21:32 ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-23 10:05 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-23 11:55 ` Peter Waechtler
2002-09-23 19:14 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-29 23:26 ` Buddy Lumpkin
2002-09-30 14:54 ` Corey Minyard
2002-09-23 15:30 ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-23 19:44 ` Olivier Galibert
2002-09-23 19:48 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-23 20:32 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-24 0:03 ` Andy Isaacson
2002-09-24 0:10 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-09-24 0:14 ` Andy Isaacson
2002-09-24 5:53 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-24 20:34 ` David Schwartz
2002-09-24 7:12 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-24 7:30 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-23 22:35 ` Mark Mielke
2002-09-23 19:59 ` Peter Waechtler
2002-09-23 20:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-23 21:08 ` Peter Wächtler
2002-09-23 22:44 ` Mark Mielke
2002-09-23 23:01 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-23 23:11 ` Mark Mielke [this message]
2002-09-24 0:21 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-24 3:20 ` Mark Mielke
2002-09-23 23:57 ` Andy Isaacson
2002-09-24 6:32 ` 1:1 threading vs. scheduler activations (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1) Ingo Molnar
2002-09-25 3:08 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-24 18:10 ` [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1 Christoph Hellwig
2002-09-23 21:32 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-23 21:41 ` dean gaudet
2002-09-23 22:10 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-23 22:56 ` Mark Mielke
2002-09-24 10:02 ` Nikita Danilov
2002-09-23 21:22 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-23 21:03 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-24 12:03 ` Michael Sinz
2002-09-24 13:40 ` Peter Svensson
2002-09-24 14:20 ` Michael Sinz
2002-09-24 14:50 ` Offtopic: (was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1) Peter Svensson
2002-09-24 15:19 ` Mark Veltzer
2002-09-24 17:29 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-25 18:57 ` Mark Mielke
2002-09-25 19:04 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-25 19:29 ` Mark Veltzer
2002-09-25 19:23 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-24 16:31 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-24 18:49 ` Michael Sinz
2002-09-24 19:12 ` PATCH: per user fair scheduler 2.4.19 (cleaned up, thanks hch) (was: Re: Offtopic: (was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1)) Rik van Riel
2002-09-24 20:19 ` [ANNOUNCE] Native POSIX Thread Library 0.1 David Schwartz
2002-09-24 21:10 ` Chris Friesen
2002-09-24 21:22 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-24 21:35 ` Roberto Peon
2002-09-24 21:35 ` Chris Friesen
2002-09-25 19:02 ` David Schwartz
2002-09-24 23:16 ` Peter Waechtler
2002-09-24 23:23 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-25 19:05 ` David Schwartz
[not found] <987738530@toto.iv>
2002-09-24 2:48 ` Peter Chubb
2002-09-24 3:37 ` Mark Mielke
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-09-23 16:36 Matthias Urlichs
2002-09-20 7:46 Joerg Pommnitz
2002-09-20 0:41 Ulrich Drepper
2002-09-20 0:51 ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-09-20 1:35 ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-09-20 1:42 ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-09-20 1:56 ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-20 2:01 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-20 2:15 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2002-09-20 2:40 ` Dave Hansen
2002-09-20 2:47 ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-09-20 2:17 ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-20 2:24 ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-20 2:32 ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-09-20 6:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-20 8:02 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-20 2:23 ` Anton Blanchard
2002-09-20 9:53 ` Padraig Brady
2002-09-20 13:28 ` Robert Love
2002-09-20 16:01 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-20 9:54 ` Adrian Bunk
2002-09-20 10:53 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-20 19:04 ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-09-20 23:06 ` J.A. Magallon
2002-09-20 23:33 ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-09-20 23:42 ` J.A. Magallon
2002-09-20 10:20 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-20 10:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-20 12:06 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-20 16:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-20 21:50 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-20 22:30 ` dean gaudet
2002-09-20 23:11 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-21 3:38 ` dean gaudet
2002-09-21 4:01 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-21 5:06 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-20 23:45 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-21 4:58 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-22 2:51 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-21 4:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-22 1:38 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-22 13:38 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-22 18:41 ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-09-22 22:13 ` dean gaudet
2002-09-26 17:21 ` Alan Cox
2002-09-23 0:11 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-24 16:07 ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-09-24 23:21 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-25 3:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-09-23 21:12 ` Bill Huey
2002-09-20 10:35 ` Luca Barbieri
2002-09-20 11:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-20 18:40 ` Roland McGrath
2002-09-20 21:21 ` Luca Barbieri
2002-09-20 12:37 ` jlnance
2002-09-20 16:42 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-24 0:40 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-24 5:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-09-24 6:15 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-20 15:43 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-20 16:15 ` Jakub Jelinek
2002-09-20 17:16 ` Bill Davidsen
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