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From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: "Downing, Thomas" <Thomas.Downing@ipc.com>
Cc: Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de>,
	Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:28:11 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030424212811.GH30082@mail.jlokier.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <170EBA504C3AD511A3FE00508BB89A9201FD91E8@exnanycmbx4.ipc.com>

Downing, Thomas wrote:
> From: Daniel Phillips [mailto:phillips@arcor.de]
> > To join a game, you'd have to be able to prove you're running code
> > that is secure all the way from boot to reboot, where everything
> > from network driver to physics engine is known to be compiled from
> > open source that all participants agree is good.
> 
> How would you do that?  What's the protocol?

Public key exchange lets you communicate securely over an insecure link.

So, the game server and the BIOS have a chat, through the operating
system (which counts as an insecure link), and the BIOS tells the
server that it is the correct DRM BIOS, and it loaded a signed kernel.

So the server can trust the kernel.  It chats with the kernel, which
confirms that it is running a signed physics engine, a signed 3rd party
network driver, a signed video driver, the video is connected to a
signed monitor, the input is connected to a signed joystick, and that
conversations on TCP port XXX are connected to the physics engine.

This is how a game server can verify it is working with a known game
client and the client is connected to a known type of monitor and
input device.  I.e. it can verify there is no electronic frame grabber
using the video signals and driving an AI assist through the input
device.

Additionally, the trusted kernel and trusted video driver can prove
that they are encrypting the video link, so that it is imposible to
record the gameplay using standard video recording hardware.

   ---

Substitute "broadcaster" for "game server" and you see that the same
methods ensure that you really have the TV switched on and you are not
recording the show.

They also ensure you are not recording a screenshot of a politically
sensitive article about Iraq that was accidentally shown on CNN's web
site for 10 minutes.  We can't have people recording things like that.

Also that day, that same article doesn't load from Al-Jazeera or
anywhere else, on the PC you bought from the only affordable store in
town.  Is the net flaky today, or is somebody remote-controlling your
PC to control your "browsing experience"?

-- Jamie

  reply	other threads:[~2003-04-24 21:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-04-24 20:39 Flame Linus to a crisp! Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 21:28 ` Jamie Lokier [this message]
2003-04-24 21:42   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 22:45     ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 23:59       ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-25  9:07         ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-25 13:01       ` David Luyer
2003-04-25  8:13   ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-25 19:12     ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25 20:56       ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-25 21:50         ` Jamie Lokier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-04-28  9:30 Martin_List-Petersen
2003-04-25 12:57 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-25 12:41 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-25 12:36 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-27  7:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-04-25 12:23 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 22:10 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 22:36 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:55 Daniel Callahan
2003-04-24 12:36 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 14:12 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 22:48   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 12:29   ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2003-04-25 15:45     ` Timothy Miller
     [not found] <20030424041004$113a@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-04-24  4:53 ` Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
2003-04-24  3:59 Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24  4:40 ` Joel Jaeggli
2003-04-24  4:43 ` Greg KH
2003-04-24  4:57   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24  5:02     ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24  5:39       ` viro
2003-04-24  5:56         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-24  8:46           ` Dax Kelson
2003-04-24  9:46         ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24 10:54       ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-04-25  0:07         ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24  4:54 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-04-24  5:16   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 13:08     ` Shawn
2003-04-24 20:12       ` Kenneth Johansson
2003-04-24 17:32     ` Andreas Boman
2003-04-24 17:41       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24 19:39         ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-26 17:05       ` Riley Williams
2003-04-24  5:02 ` Mark J Roberts
2003-04-24  5:13   ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24  5:15 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24  5:43   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24  6:15     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24  7:44       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24  8:03         ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-25  1:16           ` Jan Harkes
2003-04-25  1:35             ` Stan Bubrouski
2003-04-24  8:16         ` John Bradford
2003-04-24  8:31           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24  8:59             ` John Bradford
2003-04-24  8:50           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 14:45           ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 15:00             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-04-24 19:03             ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 19:32               ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 19:22                 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 20:19                   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 20:35                   ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 19:39                 ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-24 21:02                   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 18:58         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 21:08           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:37             ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 21:30               ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:38                 ` John Bradford
2003-04-25  3:20                   ` Shawn
2003-04-25  5:47                     ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25  7:02                       ` John Bradford
2003-04-25  8:52                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-25 14:03                   ` Mike Dresser
2003-04-24 21:42                 ` Russell King
2003-04-25  6:08               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-25 11:46                 ` Antonio Vargas
2003-04-24 10:57     ` Giuliano Pochini
2003-04-24 22:51     ` Adrian Bunk
2003-04-24  7:55 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24  8:37 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24  8:59   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 12:52     ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24 15:37     ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 18:35       ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 20:46         ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 20:50           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:03             ` Chris Adams
2003-04-24 22:29         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-24 22:41           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 22:54             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25  0:26               ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 22:41           ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 14:21           ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 16:13             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-24 19:23       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 19:50         ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-24  8:57 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-04-24  9:19   ` Russell King
2003-04-24 11:38     ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-04-24 17:46       ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-04-24 14:59   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 12:39 ` Mark Mielke
2003-04-24 15:53 ` Elladan
2003-04-24 18:31 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 23:15   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 11:28     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-04-27  1:31       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-27  1:59         ` David Wagner
2003-04-25 14:37     ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-25 15:17       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-25 17:37       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-26 21:59         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-26 13:00     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-26 18:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-26 18:41         ` viro
2003-04-26 18:48           ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-28 14:20           ` John Stoffel
2003-04-26 19:23         ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-28 10:35         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-04-28 12:12           ` Jörn Engel
2003-04-28 14:01           ` Zack Gilburd
2003-04-28 14:30             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-26 18:21   ` Rik van Riel
2003-04-26 23:34     ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-27  3:59     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-24 20:16 ` Nils Holland

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