From: Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Andrea Parri <andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com>,
"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
LKMM Maintainers -- Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@gmail.com>,
Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
Daniel Lustig <dlustig@nvidia.com>,
David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 18:14:52 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180712171451.GI26935@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807121236470.1306-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
Hi Alan,
On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 01:04:27PM -0400, Alan Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2018, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > But as you (and Will) point out, we don't so much care about rmw-acquire
> > semantics as much as that we care about unlock+lock behaviour. Another
> > way to look at this is to define:
> >
> > smp-store-release + rmw-acquire := TSO (ideally smp_mb)
> >
> > But then we also have to look at:
> >
> > rmw-release + smp-load-acquire
> > rmw-release + rmw-acquire
>
> Let's assume that rmw-release is equivalent, in terms of ordering
> strength, to smp_store_release(). Then we can focus our attention on
> just the acquire part.
I can live with that, but it does add another special case, where we could
otherwise just special case acquire/release for the load/store variants
vs everything else.
> On PowerPC, for instance, if spin_lock() used a full HWSYNC fence
> then unlock+lock would become RCsc -- even with no changes to
> spin_unlock().
>
> > for completeness sake, and I would suggest they result in (at least) the
> > same (TSO) ordering as the one we really care about.
> >
> > One alternative is to no longer use smp_store_release() for unlock(),
> > and say define atomic_set_release() to be in the rmw-release class
> > instead of being a simple smp_store_release().
> >
> > Another, and I like this proposal least, is to introduce a new barrier
> > to make this all work.
>
> This apparently boils down to two questions:
>
> Should spin_lock/spin_unlock be RCsc?
I would love that to be the case, but I'm not asking you to fight that
battle :)
> Should rmw-acquire be strong enough so that smp_store_release +
> rmw-acquire is RCtso?
>
> If both answers are No, we end up with the v3 patch. If the first
> answer is No and the second is Yes, we end up with the v2 patch. The
> problem is that different people seem to want differing answers.
Just to be extra unhelpful: I'm happy with either v2 or v3. I suspect Daniel
is the one to convince on v2, because it's RISC-V that's affected by this.
Will
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-07-12 17:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-07-09 20:01 [PATCH v2] tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire Alan Stern
2018-07-09 21:45 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 13:57 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 16:25 ` Paul E. McKenney
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807101416390.1449-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
2018-07-10 19:58 ` [PATCH v3] " Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 20:24 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 20:31 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 9:43 ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 15:42 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 16:17 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 18:03 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 16:34 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-11 18:10 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 9:38 ` [PATCH v2] " Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 14:48 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 15:24 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 15:34 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 23:14 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 9:43 ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 12:34 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 12:54 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 15:57 ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 16:28 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 17:00 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-11 17:50 ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-12 8:34 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 9:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 7:40 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 9:34 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 9:45 ` Will Deacon
2018-07-13 2:17 ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-12 11:52 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 12:01 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 12:11 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 13:48 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 16:19 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-12 17:04 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-12 17:14 ` Will Deacon [this message]
2018-07-12 17:28 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-12 18:05 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 18:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-12 19:52 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 20:24 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-13 2:05 ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-13 4:03 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-13 9:07 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-13 9:35 ` Will Deacon
2018-07-13 17:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-13 19:06 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-14 1:51 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-14 2:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-16 2:31 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-13 11:08 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-13 13:15 ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-13 16:42 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-13 19:56 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-16 14:40 ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-16 19:01 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-16 19:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 14:45 ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-17 16:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 18:33 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 18:42 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-17 19:40 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:47 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-17 18:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 18:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 19:42 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:37 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-17 20:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 19:38 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:40 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-17 19:52 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-18 12:31 ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-18 13:16 ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-12 17:52 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 20:43 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-12 21:13 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 21:23 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 18:33 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 17:45 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 16:56 ` Daniel Lustig
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807101315140.1449-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
2018-07-10 23:31 ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 14:19 ` Alan Stern
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