From: David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> To: Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com> Cc: "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>, Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>, pair@us.ibm.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, frankja@linux.ibm.com, brijesh.singh@amd.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com>, qemu-ppc@nongnu.org, rth@twiddle.net, thuth@redhat.com, berrange@redhat.com, mdroth@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com>, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, Marcel Apfelbaum <marcel.apfelbaum@gmail.com>, david@redhat.com, Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@linaro.org>, kvm@vger.kernel.org, qemu-s390x@nongnu.org, pasic@linux.ibm.com Subject: Re: [for-6.0 v5 00/13] Generalize memory encryption models Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 13:57:28 +1100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20201208025728.GD2555@yekko.fritz.box> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20201204141229.688b11e4.cohuck@redhat.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3085 bytes --] On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 02:12:29PM +0100, Cornelia Huck wrote: > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:07:27 +0000 > "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com> wrote: > > > * Cornelia Huck (cohuck@redhat.com) wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:06:50 +0100 > > > Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 04.12.20 06:44, David Gibson wrote: > > > > > A number of hardware platforms are implementing mechanisms whereby the > > > > > hypervisor does not have unfettered access to guest memory, in order > > > > > to mitigate the security impact of a compromised hypervisor. > > > > > > > > > > AMD's SEV implements this with in-cpu memory encryption, and Intel has > > > > > its own memory encryption mechanism. POWER has an upcoming mechanism > > > > > to accomplish this in a different way, using a new memory protection > > > > > level plus a small trusted ultravisor. s390 also has a protected > > > > > execution environment. > > > > > > > > > > The current code (committed or draft) for these features has each > > > > > platform's version configured entirely differently. That doesn't seem > > > > > ideal for users, or particularly for management layers. > > > > > > > > > > AMD SEV introduces a notionally generic machine option > > > > > "machine-encryption", but it doesn't actually cover any cases other > > > > > than SEV. > > > > > > > > > > This series is a proposal to at least partially unify configuration > > > > > for these mechanisms, by renaming and generalizing AMD's > > > > > "memory-encryption" property. It is replaced by a > > > > > "securable-guest-memory" property pointing to a platform specific > > > > > > > > Can we do "securable-guest" ? > > > > s390x also protects registers and integrity. memory is only one piece > > > > of the puzzle and what we protect might differ from platform to > > > > platform. > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Even technologies that currently only do memory encryption may > > > be enhanced with more protections later. > > > > There's already SEV-ES patches onlist for this on the SEV side. > > > > <sigh on haggling over the name> > > > > Perhaps 'confidential guest' is actually what we need, since the > > marketing folks seem to have started labelling this whole idea > > 'confidential computing'. That's not a bad idea, much as I usually hate marketing terms. But it does seem to be becoming a general term for this style of thing, and it doesn't overlap too badly with other terms ("secure" and "protected" are also used for hypervisor-from-guest and guest-from-guest protection). > It's more like a 'possibly confidential guest', though. Hmm. What about "Confidential Guest Facility" or "Confidential Guest Mechanism"? The implication being that the facility is there, whether or not the guest actually uses it. -- David Gibson | I'll have my music baroque, and my code david AT gibson.dropbear.id.au | minimalist, thank you. NOT _the_ _other_ | _way_ _around_! http://www.ozlabs.org/~dgibson [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> To: Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com> Cc: pair@us.ibm.com, brijesh.singh@amd.com, frankja@linux.ibm.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@linaro.org>, Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com>, david@redhat.com, "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, pasic@linux.ibm.com, Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>, qemu-s390x@nongnu.org, qemu-ppc@nongnu.org, berrange@redhat.com, thuth@redhat.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, rth@twiddle.net, mdroth@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com> Subject: Re: [for-6.0 v5 00/13] Generalize memory encryption models Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 13:57:28 +1100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20201208025728.GD2555@yekko.fritz.box> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20201204141229.688b11e4.cohuck@redhat.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3085 bytes --] On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 02:12:29PM +0100, Cornelia Huck wrote: > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:07:27 +0000 > "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com> wrote: > > > * Cornelia Huck (cohuck@redhat.com) wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:06:50 +0100 > > > Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 04.12.20 06:44, David Gibson wrote: > > > > > A number of hardware platforms are implementing mechanisms whereby the > > > > > hypervisor does not have unfettered access to guest memory, in order > > > > > to mitigate the security impact of a compromised hypervisor. > > > > > > > > > > AMD's SEV implements this with in-cpu memory encryption, and Intel has > > > > > its own memory encryption mechanism. POWER has an upcoming mechanism > > > > > to accomplish this in a different way, using a new memory protection > > > > > level plus a small trusted ultravisor. s390 also has a protected > > > > > execution environment. > > > > > > > > > > The current code (committed or draft) for these features has each > > > > > platform's version configured entirely differently. That doesn't seem > > > > > ideal for users, or particularly for management layers. > > > > > > > > > > AMD SEV introduces a notionally generic machine option > > > > > "machine-encryption", but it doesn't actually cover any cases other > > > > > than SEV. > > > > > > > > > > This series is a proposal to at least partially unify configuration > > > > > for these mechanisms, by renaming and generalizing AMD's > > > > > "memory-encryption" property. It is replaced by a > > > > > "securable-guest-memory" property pointing to a platform specific > > > > > > > > Can we do "securable-guest" ? > > > > s390x also protects registers and integrity. memory is only one piece > > > > of the puzzle and what we protect might differ from platform to > > > > platform. > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Even technologies that currently only do memory encryption may > > > be enhanced with more protections later. > > > > There's already SEV-ES patches onlist for this on the SEV side. > > > > <sigh on haggling over the name> > > > > Perhaps 'confidential guest' is actually what we need, since the > > marketing folks seem to have started labelling this whole idea > > 'confidential computing'. That's not a bad idea, much as I usually hate marketing terms. But it does seem to be becoming a general term for this style of thing, and it doesn't overlap too badly with other terms ("secure" and "protected" are also used for hypervisor-from-guest and guest-from-guest protection). > It's more like a 'possibly confidential guest', though. Hmm. What about "Confidential Guest Facility" or "Confidential Guest Mechanism"? The implication being that the facility is there, whether or not the guest actually uses it. -- David Gibson | I'll have my music baroque, and my code david AT gibson.dropbear.id.au | minimalist, thank you. NOT _the_ _other_ | _way_ _around_! http://www.ozlabs.org/~dgibson [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-12-08 4:27 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 186+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2020-12-04 5:44 [for-6.0 v5 00/13] Generalize memory encryption models David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 01/13] qom: Allow optional sugar props David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 12:57 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 12:57 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-14 21:25 ` Eduardo Habkost 2020-12-14 21:25 ` Eduardo Habkost 2021-01-11 18:04 ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé 2021-01-11 18:04 ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 02/13] securable guest memory: Introduce new securable guest memory base class David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 03/13] securable guest memory: Handle memory encryption via interface David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 13:10 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 13:10 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-08 4:03 ` David Gibson 2021-01-08 4:03 ` David Gibson 2021-01-12 3:49 ` David Gibson 2021-01-12 3:49 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 04/13] securable guest memory: Move side effect out of machine_set_memory_encryption() David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 05/13] securable guest memory: Rework the "memory-encryption" property David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2021-01-11 18:09 ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé 2021-01-11 18:09 ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 06/13] securable guest memory: Decouple kvm_memcrypt_*() helpers from KVM David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2021-01-11 18:13 ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé 2021-01-11 18:13 ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé 2021-01-12 3:03 ` David Gibson 2021-01-12 3:03 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 07/13] sev: Add Error ** to sev_kvm_init() David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-14 16:50 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-14 16:50 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 08/13] securable guest memory: Introduce sgm "ready" flag David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-14 17:00 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-14 17:00 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 5:38 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 5:38 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 11:24 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 11:24 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 09/13] securable guest memory: Move SEV initialization into arch specific code David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 10/13] spapr: Add PEF based securable guest memory David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2021-01-05 23:34 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-05 23:34 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-08 0:34 ` David Gibson 2021-01-08 0:34 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 11/13] spapr: PEF: prevent migration David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-14 17:22 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-14 17:22 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 5:47 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 5:47 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 11:38 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 11:38 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 14:15 ` Greg Kurz 2020-12-17 14:15 ` Greg Kurz 2020-12-18 11:41 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-18 11:41 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-18 12:08 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2020-12-18 12:08 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-04 7:15 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-04 7:15 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-04 12:46 ` [EXTERNAL] " Halil Pasic 2021-01-04 12:46 ` Halil Pasic 2021-01-04 18:40 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-04 18:40 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-05 10:56 ` [EXTERNAL] " Halil Pasic 2021-01-05 10:56 ` Halil Pasic 2021-01-05 20:41 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-05 20:41 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-11 16:59 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-11 16:59 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-11 19:58 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-11 19:58 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-12 8:19 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-12 8:19 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-12 18:55 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-12 18:55 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-13 8:06 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-13 8:06 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-15 18:55 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-15 18:55 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-19 8:19 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-19 8:19 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-19 9:59 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-19 9:59 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 11:23 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 11:23 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-13 12:42 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-13 12:42 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-14 10:28 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 10:28 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 10:36 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-14 10:36 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-14 10:52 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 10:52 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 11:05 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-14 11:05 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-14 11:45 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-14 11:45 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-14 11:50 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 11:50 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 12:20 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 12:20 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 14:04 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-14 14:04 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-14 14:09 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 14:09 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 14:15 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 14:15 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 15:25 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 15:25 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-14 15:33 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 15:33 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-15 18:24 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-15 18:24 ` Ram Pai 2021-01-14 11:25 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 11:25 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-14 23:51 ` David Gibson 2021-01-14 23:51 ` David Gibson 2021-01-18 17:39 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-18 17:39 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2021-01-19 8:28 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-19 8:28 ` Christian Borntraeger 2021-01-19 8:34 ` Cornelia Huck 2021-01-19 8:34 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 12/13] securable guest memory: Alter virtio default properties for protected guests David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 8:10 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-04 8:10 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-04 8:17 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 8:17 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 8:29 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-04 8:29 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-04 14:43 ` Halil Pasic 2020-12-04 14:43 ` Halil Pasic 2020-12-08 1:54 ` David Gibson 2020-12-08 1:54 ` David Gibson 2020-12-08 8:16 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-08 8:16 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-08 10:28 ` Halil Pasic 2020-12-08 10:28 ` Halil Pasic 2020-12-08 12:50 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-08 12:50 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 5:53 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 5:53 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 17:04 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 17:04 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 5:44 ` [for-6.0 v5 13/13] s390: Recognize securable-guest-memory option David Gibson 2020-12-04 5:44 ` David Gibson 2020-12-15 11:45 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-15 11:45 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 5:54 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 5:54 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 8:06 ` [for-6.0 v5 00/13] Generalize memory encryption models Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-04 8:06 ` Christian Borntraeger 2020-12-04 13:02 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 13:02 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 13:07 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2020-12-04 13:07 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert 2020-12-04 13:12 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 13:12 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-08 2:57 ` David Gibson [this message] 2020-12-08 2:57 ` David Gibson 2020-12-08 12:43 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-08 12:43 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 6:21 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 6:21 ` David Gibson 2020-12-17 11:43 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-17 11:43 ` Cornelia Huck 2020-12-04 13:25 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2020-12-04 13:25 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2020-12-04 13:51 ` Halil Pasic 2020-12-04 13:51 ` Halil Pasic 2020-12-08 2:54 ` David Gibson 2020-12-08 2:54 ` David Gibson 2020-12-04 9:50 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2020-12-04 9:50 ` Daniel P. Berrangé 2021-01-12 3:02 ` David Gibson 2021-01-12 3:02 ` David Gibson
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