From: Arnd Bergmann <arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
To: Thierry Reding <thierry.reding-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
linux-samsung-soc-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
Pawel Moll <pawel.moll-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
Ian Campbell
<ijc+devicetree-KcIKpvwj1kUDXYZnReoRVg@public.gmane.org>,
Grant Grundler <grundler-F7+t8E8rja9g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>,
Stephen Warren <swarren-3lzwWm7+Weoh9ZMKESR00Q@public.gmane.org>,
Will Deacon <will.deacon-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
Marc Zyngier <marc.zyngier-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
iommu-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org,
Rob Herring <robh+dt-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>,
Kumar Gala <galak-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>,
linux-tegra-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
Cho KyongHo <pullip.cho-Sze3O3UU22JBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>,
Dave Martin <Dave.Martin-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
linux-arm-kernel-IAPFreCvJWM7uuMidbF8XUB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] devicetree: Add generic IOMMU device tree bindings
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 11:42:12 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <6794037.0YTCc6JFQV@wuerfel> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140604213159.GB18780@mithrandir>
On Wednesday 04 June 2014 23:32:00 Thierry Reding wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 09:01:19PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > On Friday 30 May 2014 12:22:32 Dave Martin wrote:
> > > > +
> > > > +Examples:
> > > > +=========
> > > > +
> > > > +Single-master IOMMU:
> > > > +--------------------
> > > > +
> > > > + iommu {
> > > > + #address-cells = <0>;
> > > > + #size-cells = <0>;
> > > > + };
> > > > +
> > > > + master {
> > > > + iommus = <&/iommu>;
> > > > + };
> > > > +
> > > > +Multiple-master IOMMU with fixed associations:
> > > > +----------------------------------------------
> > > > +
> > > > + /* multiple-master IOMMU */
> > > > + iommu {
> > > > + /*
> > > > + * Masters are statically associated with this IOMMU and
> > > > + * address translation is always enabled.
> > > > + */
> > > > + #address-cells = <0>;
> > > > + #size-cells = <0>;
> > >
> > > In this example, can different translations be set up for the different
> > > masters?
> > >
> > > With no cells available to contain any sort of ID, it looks like this
> > > is not possible.
> >
> > Correct, this example is for an IOMMU that does not use IDs but has a
> > shared address space for all devices.
>
> Couldn't these device all still have separate address spaces?
No. If they had separate address spaces, they would require a more
sophisticated IOMMU. A simple IOMMU without IDs can only be used
for overcoming address space limits (e.g. for 32-bit DMA masters on
systems with more than 4GB RAM) but not for strict isolation.
You basically have one page table shared across all devices connected
to the IOMMU, and every call to dma_alloc_coherent or dma_map_*
allocates a new IOVA that isn't used by any of the other devices
already, but you can't prevent a malicious user from getting a device
to do DMA to an IOVA that has been set up for another device.
You could have one such IOMMU per device of course, but I guess that's
not what you mean.
Arnd
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
To: Thierry Reding <thierry.reding@gmail.com>
Cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@arm.com>,
Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-samsung-soc@vger.kernel.org,
Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com>,
Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk>,
Grant Grundler <grundler@chromium.org>,
Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org>,
Stephen Warren <swarren@wwwdotorg.org>,
Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Marc Zyngier <marc.zyngier@arm.com>,
iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org,
Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org>,
Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org>,
linux-tegra@vger.kernel.org, Cho KyongHo <pullip.cho@samsung.com>,
Hiroshi Doyu <hdoyu@nvidia.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] devicetree: Add generic IOMMU device tree bindings
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 11:42:12 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <6794037.0YTCc6JFQV@wuerfel> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140604213159.GB18780@mithrandir>
On Wednesday 04 June 2014 23:32:00 Thierry Reding wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 09:01:19PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > On Friday 30 May 2014 12:22:32 Dave Martin wrote:
> > > > +
> > > > +Examples:
> > > > +=========
> > > > +
> > > > +Single-master IOMMU:
> > > > +--------------------
> > > > +
> > > > + iommu {
> > > > + #address-cells = <0>;
> > > > + #size-cells = <0>;
> > > > + };
> > > > +
> > > > + master {
> > > > + iommus = <&/iommu>;
> > > > + };
> > > > +
> > > > +Multiple-master IOMMU with fixed associations:
> > > > +----------------------------------------------
> > > > +
> > > > + /* multiple-master IOMMU */
> > > > + iommu {
> > > > + /*
> > > > + * Masters are statically associated with this IOMMU and
> > > > + * address translation is always enabled.
> > > > + */
> > > > + #address-cells = <0>;
> > > > + #size-cells = <0>;
> > >
> > > In this example, can different translations be set up for the different
> > > masters?
> > >
> > > With no cells available to contain any sort of ID, it looks like this
> > > is not possible.
> >
> > Correct, this example is for an IOMMU that does not use IDs but has a
> > shared address space for all devices.
>
> Couldn't these device all still have separate address spaces?
No. If they had separate address spaces, they would require a more
sophisticated IOMMU. A simple IOMMU without IDs can only be used
for overcoming address space limits (e.g. for 32-bit DMA masters on
systems with more than 4GB RAM) but not for strict isolation.
You basically have one page table shared across all devices connected
to the IOMMU, and every call to dma_alloc_coherent or dma_map_*
allocates a new IOVA that isn't used by any of the other devices
already, but you can't prevent a malicious user from getting a device
to do DMA to an IOVA that has been set up for another device.
You could have one such IOMMU per device of course, but I guess that's
not what you mean.
Arnd
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: arnd@arndb.de (Arnd Bergmann)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH v2] devicetree: Add generic IOMMU device tree bindings
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 11:42:12 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <6794037.0YTCc6JFQV@wuerfel> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140604213159.GB18780@mithrandir>
On Wednesday 04 June 2014 23:32:00 Thierry Reding wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 09:01:19PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > On Friday 30 May 2014 12:22:32 Dave Martin wrote:
> > > > +
> > > > +Examples:
> > > > +=========
> > > > +
> > > > +Single-master IOMMU:
> > > > +--------------------
> > > > +
> > > > + iommu {
> > > > + #address-cells = <0>;
> > > > + #size-cells = <0>;
> > > > + };
> > > > +
> > > > + master {
> > > > + iommus = <&/iommu>;
> > > > + };
> > > > +
> > > > +Multiple-master IOMMU with fixed associations:
> > > > +----------------------------------------------
> > > > +
> > > > + /* multiple-master IOMMU */
> > > > + iommu {
> > > > + /*
> > > > + * Masters are statically associated with this IOMMU and
> > > > + * address translation is always enabled.
> > > > + */
> > > > + #address-cells = <0>;
> > > > + #size-cells = <0>;
> > >
> > > In this example, can different translations be set up for the different
> > > masters?
> > >
> > > With no cells available to contain any sort of ID, it looks like this
> > > is not possible.
> >
> > Correct, this example is for an IOMMU that does not use IDs but has a
> > shared address space for all devices.
>
> Couldn't these device all still have separate address spaces?
No. If they had separate address spaces, they would require a more
sophisticated IOMMU. A simple IOMMU without IDs can only be used
for overcoming address space limits (e.g. for 32-bit DMA masters on
systems with more than 4GB RAM) but not for strict isolation.
You basically have one page table shared across all devices connected
to the IOMMU, and every call to dma_alloc_coherent or dma_map_*
allocates a new IOVA that isn't used by any of the other devices
already, but you can't prevent a malicious user from getting a device
to do DMA to an IOVA that has been set up for another device.
You could have one such IOMMU per device of course, but I guess that's
not what you mean.
Arnd
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-06-05 9:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 215+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-05-23 20:36 [PATCH v2] devicetree: Add generic IOMMU device tree bindings Thierry Reding
2014-05-23 20:36 ` Thierry Reding
2014-05-23 20:36 ` Thierry Reding
[not found] ` <1400877395-4235-1-git-send-email-thierry.reding-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-29 15:52 ` Stephen Warren
2014-05-29 15:52 ` Stephen Warren
2014-05-29 15:52 ` Stephen Warren
2014-05-30 7:30 ` Thierry Reding
2014-05-30 7:30 ` Thierry Reding
2014-05-30 11:27 ` Dave Martin
2014-05-30 11:27 ` Dave Martin
2014-05-30 11:27 ` Dave Martin
[not found] ` <20140530112728.GB3949-M5GwZQ6tE7x5pKCnmE3YQBJ8xKzm50AiAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-30 19:11 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:11 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:11 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-02 10:56 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-02 10:56 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-02 10:56 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-04 21:12 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 21:12 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 21:12 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-16 12:57 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-16 12:57 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-16 12:57 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 11:58 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-17 11:58 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-17 11:58 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-17 12:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 12:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 12:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 23:37 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-17 23:37 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-17 23:37 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-18 10:14 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-18 10:14 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-18 10:14 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140618101439.GF32699-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-20 15:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-20 15:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-20 15:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-20 17:50 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-20 17:50 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-20 17:50 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-20 18:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-20 18:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-20 18:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 11:22 ` Dave Martin
2014-05-30 11:22 ` Dave Martin
2014-05-30 11:22 ` Dave Martin
[not found] ` <20140530112226.GA3949-M5GwZQ6tE7x5pKCnmE3YQBJ8xKzm50AiAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-30 19:01 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:01 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:01 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-02 11:44 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-02 11:44 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-02 11:44 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-04 21:32 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 21:32 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 21:32 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-05 9:42 ` Arnd Bergmann [this message]
2014-06-05 9:42 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-05 9:42 ` Arnd Bergmann
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2014-06-06 22:45 Thierry Reding
2014-06-06 22:45 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-07 13:22 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-07 13:22 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-07 13:22 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-09 10:49 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-09 10:49 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-09 10:49 ` Thierry Reding
2014-05-23 20:33 Thierry Reding
[not found] ` <1400877218-4113-1-git-send-email-thierry.reding-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-30 13:16 ` Rob Herring
2014-05-30 13:16 ` Rob Herring
2014-05-30 13:16 ` Rob Herring
[not found] ` <CAL_JsqKumG1PSFoVfeGpLLG+MjXFeF4aUjun=vv1BJpaxk0Byg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-30 19:06 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:06 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:06 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:29 ` Hiroshi Doyu
2014-05-30 19:29 ` Hiroshi Doyu
2014-05-30 19:29 ` Hiroshi Doyu
2014-05-30 19:54 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:54 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:54 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-01 9:55 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-01 9:55 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-01 9:55 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140601095546.GA8625-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-04 13:39 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 13:39 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 13:39 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 13:44 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 13:44 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 13:44 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 13:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-04 13:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-04 13:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-04 13:56 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-04 13:56 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-04 13:56 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140604135600.GD6644-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-04 14:01 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-04 14:01 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-04 14:01 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-04 16:39 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-04 16:39 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-04 16:39 ` Will Deacon
2014-05-30 19:31 ` Rob Herring
2014-05-30 19:31 ` Rob Herring
2014-05-30 19:31 ` Rob Herring
[not found] ` <CAL_Jsq+tkFNpjSEZboT+o69B_Z3a8e-ZVKaYDmLwtkyYoPy6VQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-30 19:49 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:49 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-30 19:49 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-02 10:41 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-02 10:41 ` Dave Martin
2014-06-02 10:41 ` Dave Martin
[not found] ` <20140602104104.GD3855-M5GwZQ6tE7x5pKCnmE3YQBJ8xKzm50AiAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-04 14:35 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 14:35 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 14:35 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 16:41 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-04 16:41 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-04 16:41 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140604164132.GF6644-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-04 21:00 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 21:00 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-04 21:00 ` Thierry Reding
2014-06-05 19:10 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-05 19:10 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-05 19:10 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-16 15:27 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-16 15:27 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-16 15:27 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140616152739.GS16758-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-16 16:56 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-16 16:56 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-16 16:56 ` Stuart Yoder
[not found] ` <8b0492b4697943a0b1f276ef42cc8223-ufbTtyGzTTT8GZusEWM6WuO6mTEJWrR4XA4E9RH9d+qIuWR1G4zioA@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-16 17:04 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-16 17:04 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-16 17:04 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140616170416.GA16758-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-16 17:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-16 17:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-16 17:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-16 18:53 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-16 18:53 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-16 18:53 ` Stuart Yoder
[not found] ` <419e67f783524d208ab3be16bcd94bd9-ufbTtyGzTTT8GZusEWM6WuO6mTEJWrR4XA4E9RH9d+qIuWR1G4zioA@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-17 10:26 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-17 10:26 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-17 10:26 ` Varun Sethi
[not found] ` <0587e1f4894546398be0798d2bc2c84f-AZ66ij2kwaacCcN9WK45f+O6mTEJWrR4XA4E9RH9d+qIuWR1G4zioA@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-17 10:43 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 10:43 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 10:43 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140617104304.GD13808-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-17 11:21 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-17 11:21 ` Varun Sethi
2014-06-17 11:21 ` Varun Sethi
[not found] ` <32165315f0b84be9948f489fd87bf6a9-AZ66ij2kwaacCcN9WK45f+O6mTEJWrR4XA4E9RH9d+qIuWR1G4zioA@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-17 14:50 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-17 14:50 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-17 14:50 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-18 9:29 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-18 9:29 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-18 9:29 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-17 14:39 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-17 14:39 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-17 14:39 ` Stuart Yoder
2014-06-20 23:16 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-20 23:16 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-20 23:16 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-24 9:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-24 9:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-24 9:18 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140624091808.GC26013-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-24 17:57 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-24 17:57 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-24 17:57 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-24 18:11 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-24 18:11 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-24 18:11 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140624181150.GB4067-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-24 18:20 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-24 18:20 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-24 18:20 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:17 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:17 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:17 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:27 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:27 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:27 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:38 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:38 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:38 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:48 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:48 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:48 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 9:57 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:57 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:57 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140625095735.GI6153-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-25 10:12 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 10:12 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 10:12 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-06-25 10:14 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 10:14 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 10:14 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-24 21:35 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-24 21:35 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-24 21:35 ` Olav Haugan
[not found] ` <53A9EF3A.2070704-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-25 9:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:18 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-25 9:18 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140625091858.GG6153-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-27 22:23 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-27 22:23 ` Olav Haugan
2014-06-27 22:23 ` Olav Haugan
[not found] ` <53ADEEDF.7060902-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>
2014-06-30 9:52 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-30 9:52 ` Will Deacon
2014-06-30 9:52 ` Will Deacon
2014-07-09 1:07 ` Olav Haugan
2014-07-09 1:07 ` Olav Haugan
2014-07-09 1:07 ` Olav Haugan
[not found] ` <53BC95DA.1010500-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>
2014-07-09 10:54 ` Will Deacon
2014-07-09 10:54 ` Will Deacon
2014-07-09 10:54 ` Will Deacon
[not found] ` <20140709105441.GE9485-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2014-07-10 22:32 ` Olav Haugan
2014-07-10 22:32 ` Olav Haugan
2014-07-10 22:32 ` Olav Haugan
2014-07-11 12:24 ` Will Deacon
2014-07-11 12:24 ` Will Deacon
2014-07-11 12:24 ` Will Deacon
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