From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@google.com>
Cc: Andrew Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Justin Forbes <jforbes@redhat.com>,
linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>, joeyli <jlee@suse.com>,
LSM List <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
linux-efi <linux-efi@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 17:02:46 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFxZN_p_cU94z7QN8=HnPanRrpRHH7UUkOBaFDSjfrivnQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CACdnJutkO9dgz=HZpPRR9PZC=+cHh97dRUiGB+D3gruZr6U9Kg@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@google.com> wrote:
>> Another way of looking at this: if lockdown is a good idea to enable
>> when you booted using secure boot, then why isn't it a good idea when
>> you *didn't* boot using secure boot?
>
> Because it's then trivial to circumvent and the restrictions aren't worth
> the benefit.
Bullshit.
If there those restrictions cause problems, they need to be fixed regardless.
In fact, from a debuggability standpoint, you want to find the
problems early, on those kernel development machines that had secure
boot explicitly turned off because it's such a pain.
And if they can't be fixed, then the user is going to disable lockdown
regardless of how he booted the machine.
In no situation is "depending on how you booted" a good choice.
Either you can enable it or you can't. If you can, good. And if you
can't, it has nothing to do with secure boot.
Linus
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: torvalds@linux-foundation.org (Linus Torvalds)
To: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org
Subject: [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 17:02:46 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFxZN_p_cU94z7QN8=HnPanRrpRHH7UUkOBaFDSjfrivnQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CACdnJutkO9dgz=HZpPRR9PZC=+cHh97dRUiGB+D3gruZr6U9Kg@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@google.com> wrote:
>> Another way of looking at this: if lockdown is a good idea to enable
>> when you booted using secure boot, then why isn't it a good idea when
>> you *didn't* boot using secure boot?
>
> Because it's then trivial to circumvent and the restrictions aren't worth
> the benefit.
Bullshit.
If there those restrictions cause problems, they need to be fixed regardless.
In fact, from a debuggability standpoint, you want to find the
problems early, on those kernel development machines that had secure
boot explicitly turned off because it's such a pain.
And if they can't be fixed, then the user is going to disable lockdown
regardless of how he booted the machine.
In no situation is "depending on how you booted" a good choice.
Either you can enable it or you can't. If you can, good. And if you
can't, it has nothing to do with secure boot.
Linus
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-04-04 0:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 252+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-03-30 23:29 [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot David Howells
2018-03-30 23:29 ` David Howells
2018-03-31 0:46 ` James Morris
2018-03-31 0:46 ` James Morris
2018-04-03 0:37 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 0:37 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 0:59 ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 0:59 ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 1:47 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 1:47 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 7:06 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 7:06 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 15:11 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 15:11 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 15:41 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-03 15:41 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-03 16:26 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 16:26 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 16:29 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 16:29 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 16:45 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 16:45 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 18:45 ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 18:45 ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:01 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:01 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:07 ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:07 ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:29 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 19:29 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:51 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 21:51 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 18:42 ` Peter Jones
2018-04-04 18:42 ` Peter Jones
2018-04-04 20:01 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-04-04 20:01 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-04-04 20:18 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 20:18 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 18:47 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-05 18:47 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-06 4:42 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-06 4:42 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-03 17:16 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 17:16 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 19:01 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:01 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:49 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 19:49 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 21:58 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 21:58 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:32 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 22:32 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 22:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 22:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 22:51 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 22:51 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 22:53 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:53 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:08 ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-03 23:09 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:09 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:47 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:47 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:02 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2018-04-04 0:02 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:04 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:04 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:12 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:12 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 14:58 ` Alan Cox
2018-04-05 14:58 ` Alan Cox
2018-04-04 0:22 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 0:22 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 0:22 ` David Howells
2018-04-05 17:59 ` Alan Cox
2018-04-05 17:59 ` Alan Cox
2018-04-05 18:03 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 18:03 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:45 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:45 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:59 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:59 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:10 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:10 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:16 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:16 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:18 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 0:18 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 0:19 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:19 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 9:04 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 9:04 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 0:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:46 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:46 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 0:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 0:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 1:13 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 1:13 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 1:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 1:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 4:30 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 4:30 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 12:57 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 12:57 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:02 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:02 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:34 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:34 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:57 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:57 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:29 ` Mike Galbraith
2018-04-04 13:29 ` Mike Galbraith
2018-04-04 16:20 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:20 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-08 22:00 ` Pavel Machek
2018-04-04 13:33 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 13:33 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 13:52 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:52 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 16:22 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:22 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 16:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 16:42 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:42 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:46 ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-04 16:46 ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-05 0:05 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-05 0:05 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-05 0:20 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 0:20 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 13:57 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 13:57 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 16:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 16:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 16:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 6:56 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04 6:56 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04 16:26 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:26 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 1:28 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-05 1:28 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04 1:30 ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-04 1:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 1:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 1:36 ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-04 1:36 ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-04 0:17 ` Jann Horn
2018-04-04 0:17 ` Jann Horn
2018-04-04 0:23 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 0:23 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 8:05 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 8:05 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 8:05 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 14:35 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 14:35 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 14:44 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 14:44 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 14:44 ` David Howells
2018-04-04 15:43 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-04-04 15:43 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-04-03 23:56 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:56 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:56 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:39 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:48 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:48 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-08 8:23 ` Pavel Machek
2018-04-03 23:12 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:12 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:42 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:42 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 20:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 20:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 20:54 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 20:54 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:08 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:08 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:21 ` Al Viro
2018-04-03 21:21 ` Al Viro
2018-04-03 21:37 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:37 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:32 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:32 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-08 8:10 ` Pavel Machek
2018-03-31 10:20 ` David Howells
2018-03-31 10:20 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 13:25 ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-04-03 13:25 ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-04-03 21:48 ` James Morris
2018-04-03 21:48 ` James Morris
2018-04-05 17:53 ` Alan Cox
2018-04-05 17:53 ` Alan Cox
2018-11-21 12:05 ` [PATCH next-lockdown 0/1] debugfs EPERM fix for 'Kernel lockdown for secure boot' patch series Vasily Gorbik
2018-11-21 12:05 ` [PATCH next-lockdown 1/1] debugfs: avoid EPERM when no open file operation defined Vasily Gorbik
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-04-04 2:34 [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-04 2:34 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-04 4:31 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 4:31 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-08 7:44 ` joeyli
2018-04-08 7:44 ` joeyli
2018-04-08 8:07 ` joeyli
2018-04-08 8:07 ` joeyli
2018-04-09 3:40 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-09 3:40 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-09 8:14 ` Daniel Borkmann
2018-04-09 8:14 ` Daniel Borkmann
2018-04-09 13:55 ` joeyli
2018-04-09 13:55 ` joeyli
2017-10-26 16:37 David Howells
2017-10-26 16:37 ` David Howells
2017-10-26 16:37 ` David Howells
2017-10-26 18:22 ` Mimi Zohar
2017-10-26 18:22 ` Mimi Zohar
2017-10-26 18:22 ` Mimi Zohar
2017-10-26 19:20 ` James Morris
2017-10-26 19:20 ` James Morris
2017-10-26 19:20 ` James Morris
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