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From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Joseph Myers <joseph@codesourcery.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: Szabolcs Nagy <Szabolcs.Nagy@arm.com>,
	Dave P Martin <Dave.Martin@arm.com>,
	Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>, nd <nd@arm.com>,
	Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	"Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Joel Fernandes <joelaf@google.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com>,
	"libc-alpha@sourceware.org" <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>
Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library?
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 10:13:08 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <00dc083b-2e56-af27-30b5-1effe5a7c8c4@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.21.1811141735070.16571@digraph.polyomino.org.uk>

On 11/14/18 9:40 AM, Joseph Myers wrote:
> Historically, there was once an attempt to rework POSIX into a separate
> language-independent definition and language bindings (for C, Fortran, Ada
> etc.), but I don't think it got anywhere, and it's probably doubtful
> whether the idea was ever very practical.

That effort did produce IEEE Std 1003.5-1992 (Ada Bindings to IEEE Std 
1003.1-1990), IEEE 1003.5b-1996 (Ada bindings for realtime extensions), 
and IEEE Std 1003.9-1992 (F77 Bindings to IEEE Std 1003.1-1992). The Ada 
group simply translated the POSIX standard from C into Ada, repeating 
functional text and coming up with a "thick" standard; in contrast the 
Fortran group did a "thin" standard that focused on Fortran mechanics 
and deferred underlying functionality to the main POSIX standard. The 
thin Fortran standard was harder to grok and was less successful in 
practice.

As you write, these efforts were probably not worth the trouble. Non-C 
language systems can provide a standard way to invoke C APIs, and then 
let user-level programmers have at it. The performance advantage of 
having a pure Ada/Fortran/etc. API for POSIX are so minor that it's not 
worth the major hassle of standardizing and using a language-independent 
POSIX API.


  reply	other threads:[~2018-11-14 18:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-10 18:52 Official Linux system wrapper library? Daniel Colascione
2018-11-10 19:01 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-11-10 19:06   ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-10 19:33     ` Willy Tarreau
2018-11-10 19:20 ` Greg KH
2018-11-10 19:58   ` Vlastimil Babka
2018-11-12  2:03     ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-11-12  2:24   ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-11-12  2:36     ` Greg KH
2018-11-12 16:08       ` Jonathan Corbet
2018-11-12 20:03         ` Greg KH
2018-12-09  4:38         ` Randy Dunlap
2018-12-10 16:27           ` Jonathan Corbet
2018-12-10 17:39             ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-12-10 23:32               ` Randy Dunlap
2018-11-12  5:46     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-11  6:55 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2018-11-11  8:17   ` Willy Tarreau
2018-11-11  8:25     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-11 10:40       ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 10:40         ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 10:30     ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 10:30       ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 11:02       ` Willy Tarreau
2018-11-11 12:07         ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 12:07           ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 10:53     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2018-11-11 11:02       ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 11:02         ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12 16:43         ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-13 15:15           ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-11-11 11:11       ` Willy Tarreau
2018-11-11 11:46         ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 11:46           ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 12:09           ` Willy Tarreau
2018-11-12 12:25             ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12 12:25               ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12 17:36             ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-12 17:53               ` Greg KH
2018-11-12 18:09                 ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-12 18:14                   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-11-12 16:59           ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-14 12:03           ` Adam Borowski
2018-11-14 12:10             ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-14 12:10               ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-16 21:24         ` Alan Cox
2018-11-11 11:09   ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 11:09     ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-11 14:22     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-12  1:44       ` Paul Eggert
2018-11-12  8:11       ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12  8:11         ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12 13:19         ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-12 17:24           ` Zack Weinberg
2018-11-12 18:28             ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-12 19:11               ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12 19:11                 ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-12 19:26                 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-12 22:51                   ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-12 23:10                     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-12 23:26                       ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-12 22:34                 ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-13 19:39           ` Dave Martin
2018-11-13 20:58             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-14 10:54               ` Dave Martin
2018-11-14 11:40                 ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-14 11:40                   ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-15 10:33                   ` Dave Martin
2018-11-14 11:58             ` Szabolcs Nagy
2018-11-14 14:46               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-14 15:07                 ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-14 15:07                   ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-14 17:40                 ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-14 18:13                   ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2018-11-14 14:58               ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-11-14 17:15                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2018-11-14 18:30                   ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-14 18:30                     ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-14 15:40               ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-14 18:15                 ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-14 18:35                   ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-14 18:47                     ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-15  5:30                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-15 16:29                         ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-15 17:08                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-15 17:14                             ` Joseph Myers
2018-11-15 21:00                             ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-11-15 20:34                       ` Carlos O'Donell
2018-11-23 13:34           ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-23 13:34             ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-23 14:11             ` David Newall
2018-11-23 15:23               ` Szabolcs Nagy
2018-11-24  3:41                 ` David Newall
2018-11-28 13:18               ` David Laight
2018-11-23 20:15             ` Daniel Colascione
2018-11-23 23:19               ` Dmitry V. Levin
2018-11-12 12:45       ` Szabolcs Nagy
2018-11-12 14:35         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-12 14:40           ` Daniel Colascione

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