Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Hauser, Wolfgang (external)]

Hello,

I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
special(newer) version to be used.

But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
used instead of my setting in local.conf.

Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??

Regards
Wolfgang Hauser

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Chris Larson]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
> special(newer) version to be used.
>
> But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
> used instead of my setting in local.conf.
>
> Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??


Conceptually, local should override everything, as it's the "most specific"
information available, but from a technical standpoint, we can't parse the
machine and distro configs until local.conf is parsed, as that's usually
where the MACHINE and DISTRO are set.  You can use a 'local' override to get
around it, or you can ask the distro/machine maintainer to use ?=
assignments (set only if unset).

PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
-- 
Christopher Larson
clarson at kergoth dot com
Founder - BitBake, OpenEmbedded, OpenZaurus
Maintainer - Tslib
Senior Software Engineer, Mentor Graphics

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
>> special(newer) version to be used.
>>
>> But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
>> used instead of my setting in local.conf.
>>
>> Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??
>
>
> Conceptually, local should override everything, as it's the "most specific"
> information available, but from a technical standpoint, we can't parse the
> machine and distro configs until local.conf is parsed, as that's usually
> where the MACHINE and DISTRO are set.  You can use a 'local' override to get
> around it, or you can ask the distro/machine maintainer to use ?=
> assignments (set only if unset).
>
> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.

The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
overrides.

Frans (who typically sets MACHINE in the environment, not in
local.conf, makes things a lot simpler if you have to build for
multiple machines)

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Graham Gower]

On 10 August 2010 04:31, Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
>> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
>>> special(newer) version to be used.
>>>
>>> But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
>>> used instead of my setting in local.conf.
>>>
>>> Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??
>>
>>
>> Conceptually, local should override everything, as it's the "most specific"
>> information available, but from a technical standpoint, we can't parse the
>> machine and distro configs until local.conf is parsed, as that's usually
>> where the MACHINE and DISTRO are set.  You can use a 'local' override to get
>> around it, or you can ask the distro/machine maintainer to use ?=
>> assignments (set only if unset).
>>
>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
>
> The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
> PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
> Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
> the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
> Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
> with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
> overrides.

Wouldn't it be far simpler to fix the distro conf file(s)? E.g. apply
something like this:
s/^PREFERRED_VERSION_\([a-z]*\) =/PREFERRED_VERSION_\1 ?=/

-Graham

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

2010/8/10 Graham Gower <graham.gower@gmail.com>:
> On 10 August 2010 04:31, Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
>>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
>>> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:

>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
>>
>> The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
>> PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
>> Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
>> the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
>> Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
>> with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
>> overrides.
>
> Wouldn't it be far simpler to fix the distro conf file(s)? E.g. apply
> something like this:
> s/^PREFERRED_VERSION_\([a-z]*\) =/PREFERRED_VERSION_\1 ?=/

Yeah.
Didn't really think about that one, but if distro's want to change and
adhere to it, that would be the simplest solution
Machines that pin something should probably also use weak binding.
Conceptually it is probably marginally less desirable than a solution
where local.conf has *always* control.

What do the distro's think about this?

Frans

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Mike Westerhof]

Frans Meulenbroeks wrote:
> 2010/8/10 Graham Gower <graham.gower@gmail.com>:
>> On 10 August 2010 04:31, Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
>>>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
>>>> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
>>> The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
>>> PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
>>> Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
>>> the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
>>> Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
>>> with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
>>> overrides.
>> Wouldn't it be far simpler to fix the distro conf file(s)? E.g. apply
>> something like this:
>> s/^PREFERRED_VERSION_\([a-z]*\) =/PREFERRED_VERSION_\1 ?=/
> 
> Yeah.
> Didn't really think about that one, but if distro's want to change and
> adhere to it, that would be the simplest solution
> Machines that pin something should probably also use weak binding.
> Conceptually it is probably marginally less desirable than a solution
> where local.conf has *always* control.
> 
> What do the distro's think about this?

I think it is the decision of EACH DISTRO to make, and not something to
be dictated by OE in general.

Mind you, I appreciate the general recommendation -- it's a sound idea
to make it so that a knowledgeable developer's local.conf overrides most
distro preferred version settings.  I use the technique frequently.

But on the other hand, I appreciate the ability to lock down some
preferred versions where I feel that it simply doesn't make sense to let
local.conf override.  For example, there's usually a LOT more to
changing the kernel version for SlugOS than just setting
PREFERRED_VERSION.  By the time a developer has figured out OE well
enough so they can find the distro conf files and understand how they
work, then I expect they also understand what extra stuff they need to
do for the kernel as well.  (Not to mention that I could - and should -
add some comments in the distro conf file to explain how that all works,
which is something I can't do in a generic local.conf file quite so well.)

It's a trivial point; if the community wants to begin to dictate such
little nuances to distros, it's not important enough to me to argue.
But you asked what the distros think, so I answered. :)

-Mike (mwester)

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Koen Kooi]

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Hash: SHA1

On 10-08-10 01:15, Graham Gower wrote:
> On 10 August 2010 04:31, Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
>>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
>>> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
>>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
>>>> special(newer) version to be used.
>>>>
>>>> But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
>>>> used instead of my setting in local.conf.
>>>>
>>>> Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??
>>>
>>>
>>> Conceptually, local should override everything, as it's the "most specific"
>>> information available, but from a technical standpoint, we can't parse the
>>> machine and distro configs until local.conf is parsed, as that's usually
>>> where the MACHINE and DISTRO are set.  You can use a 'local' override to get
>>> around it, or you can ask the distro/machine maintainer to use ?=
>>> assignments (set only if unset).
>>>
>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
>>
>> The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
>> PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
>> Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
>> the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
>> Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
>> with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
>> overrides.
> 
> Wouldn't it be far simpler to fix the distro conf file(s)? E.g. apply
> something like this:
> s/^PREFERRED_VERSION_\([a-z]*\) =/PREFERRED_VERSION_\1 ?=/

What's the point of setting a preferred version at all if you make it a
weak assignment?
The distro nearly always knows better and if you want to use a different
version, sending a patch to change that version for review isn't exactly
rocket science.
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Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Chris Larson]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Koen Kooi <k.kooi@student.utwente.nl>wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 10-08-10 01:15, Graham Gower wrote:
> > On 10 August 2010 04:31, Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> 2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
> >>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
> >>> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
> >>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
> >>>> special(newer) version to be used.
> >>>>
> >>>> But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
> >>>> used instead of my setting in local.conf.
> >>>>
> >>>> Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Conceptually, local should override everything, as it's the "most
> specific"
> >>> information available, but from a technical standpoint, we can't parse
> the
> >>> machine and distro configs until local.conf is parsed, as that's
> usually
> >>> where the MACHINE and DISTRO are set.  You can use a 'local' override
> to get
> >>> around it, or you can ask the distro/machine maintainer to use ?=
> >>> assignments (set only if unset).
> >>>
> >>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
> >>
> >> The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
> >> PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
> >> Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
> >> the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
> >> Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
> >> with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
> >> overrides.
> >
> > Wouldn't it be far simpler to fix the distro conf file(s)? E.g. apply
> > something like this:
> > s/^PREFERRED_VERSION_\([a-z]*\) =/PREFERRED_VERSION_\1 ?=/
>
> What's the point of setting a preferred version at all if you make it a
> weak assignment?
> The distro nearly always knows better and if you want to use a different
> version, sending a patch to change that version for review isn't exactly
> rocket science.


How about having decent usability?  The user asking for something and not
getting it is completely unintuitive.  If the user doesn't know what they
want, they won't request a specific version.  If they do request it, they
should get it, anything else is an OE usability issue.
-- 
Christopher Larson
clarson at kergoth dot com
Founder - BitBake, OpenEmbedded, OpenZaurus
Maintainer - Tslib
Senior Software Engineer, Mentor Graphics

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Graham Gower]

On 11 August 2010 06:26, Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Koen Kooi <k.kooi@student.utwente.nl>wrote:
>> What's the point of setting a preferred version at all if you make it a
>> weak assignment?
>> The distro nearly always knows better and if you want to use a different
>> version, sending a patch to change that version for review isn't exactly
>> rocket science.
>
>
> How about having decent usability?  The user asking for something and not
> getting it is completely unintuitive.  If the user doesn't know what they
> want, they won't request a specific version.  If they do request it, they
> should get it, anything else is an OE usability issue.

Precisely. The user shouldn't have to understand the details of
parsing order, weak assignments, etc. in order to write a local.conf
which works for them.

Patch to follow.

-Graham

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 09:14:41AM +0930, Graham Gower wrote:
> On 11 August 2010 06:26, Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Koen Kooi <k.kooi@student.utwente.nl>wrote:
> >> What's the point of setting a preferred version at all if you make it a
> >> weak assignment?
> >> The distro nearly always knows better and if you want to use a different
> >> version, sending a patch to change that version for review isn't exactly
> >> rocket science.
> >
> >
> > How about having decent usability?  The user asking for something and not
> > getting it is completely unintuitive.  If the user doesn't know what they
> > want, they won't request a specific version.  If they do request it, they
> > should get it, anything else is an OE usability issue.
> 
> Precisely. The user shouldn't have to understand the details of
> parsing order, weak assignments, etc. in order to write a local.conf
> which works for them.

Yeah, and then distro maintainers are blamed for the breakage when users unpin 
and change specific dependency for a package.

It's not just the parsing order problem. It's not clear for users that if they 
change anything in local.conf, it can break. I.e. you break it - you fix it.

-- 
Denys

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Graham Gower]

On 11 August 2010 11:12, Denys Dmytriyenko <denis@denix.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 09:14:41AM +0930, Graham Gower wrote:
>> On 11 August 2010 06:26, Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Koen Kooi <k.kooi@student.utwente.nl>wrote:
>> >> What's the point of setting a preferred version at all if you make it a
>> >> weak assignment?
>> >> The distro nearly always knows better and if you want to use a different
>> >> version, sending a patch to change that version for review isn't exactly
>> >> rocket science.
>> >
>> >
>> > How about having decent usability?  The user asking for something and not
>> > getting it is completely unintuitive.  If the user doesn't know what they
>> > want, they won't request a specific version.  If they do request it, they
>> > should get it, anything else is an OE usability issue.
>>
>> Precisely. The user shouldn't have to understand the details of
>> parsing order, weak assignments, etc. in order to write a local.conf
>> which works for them.
>
> Yeah, and then distro maintainers are blamed for the breakage when users unpin
> and change specific dependency for a package.
>
> It's not just the parsing order problem. It's not clear for users that if they
> change anything in local.conf, it can break. I.e. you break it - you fix it.


Ok, I'm not so passionate about this change... But I'd like to
highlight why this is not particularly intuitive.
My experience has been that only certain image targets will build
without overrides in a local.conf.

E.g.
In order to get gpe-image to build, i needed to set
PREFERRED_VERSION_gpsd = "2.39", because prismstumbler doesn't work
with the API of newer gpsd versions and prismstumbler is included in
the gpe-image.

Since no gpsd version was pinned in the distro i was using, this
override worked.

But then i determined that udev 151 didn't like my old kernel, so I
set  PREFERRED_VERSION_udev = "141". Only this doesn't work because
the (angstrom) distro pins it and the 151 version is silently picked
up. I now understand why, but I didn't at the time.

So PREFERRED_VERSION_foo="123" might work, or it might not. And the
same goes for PREFERRED_PROVIDER_foo, which is actually less
consistent because some use a weak assignment in the conf files and
others don't.

Oh, and where is the ?= operator documented? I would have expected to
find it here: http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ch02.html

-Graham

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:13:08PM +0930, Graham Gower wrote:

> Ok, I'm not so passionate about this change... But I'd like to
> highlight why this is not particularly intuitive.
> My experience has been that only certain image targets will build
> without overrides in a local.conf.
> 
> But then i determined that udev 151 didn't like my old kernel, so I
> set  PREFERRED_VERSION_udev = "141". Only this doesn't work because
> the (angstrom) distro pins it and the 151 version is silently picked
> up. I now understand why, but I didn't at the time.

Yeah, udev > 141 doesn't like glibc < 2.9 either.

> So PREFERRED_VERSION_foo="123" might work, or it might not. And the
> same goes for PREFERRED_PROVIDER_foo, which is actually less
> consistent because some use a weak assignment in the conf files and
> others don't.
> 
> Oh, and where is the ?= operator documented? I would have expected to
> find it here: http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ch02.html

The only place I was able to find it explained is in OpenEmbedded manual under 
"Conditional assignment" of "Syntax of recipes" chapter:

http://docs.openembedded.org/usermanual/html/recipes_syntax.html

-- 
Denys

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Khem Raj]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Koen Kooi <k.kooi@student.utwente.nl>wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 10-08-10 01:15, Graham Gower wrote:
>> > On 10 August 2010 04:31, Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> 2010/8/9 Chris Larson <clarson@kergoth.com>:
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external) <
>> >>> Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hello,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I want to change some used versions of packages, so I added a
>> >>>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>="xxx" for the packages I want to have a
>> >>>> special(newer) version to be used.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But e. g. for busybox the version defined in the used <distro>.conf is
>> >>>> used instead of my setting in local.conf.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Should local.conf not overrule <distro/machine>.conf ??
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Conceptually, local should override everything, as it's the "most
>> specific"
>> >>> information available, but from a technical standpoint, we can't parse
>> the
>> >>> machine and distro configs until local.conf is parsed, as that's
>> usually
>> >>> where the MACHINE and DISTRO are set.  You can use a 'local' override
>> to get
>> >>> around it, or you can ask the distro/machine maintainer to use ?=
>> >>> assignments (set only if unset).
>> >>>
>> >>> PREFERRED_VERSION_<package>_local = "xxx" is how you use the override.
>> >>
>> >> The real solution woud be to either temporary store the
>> >> PREFERRED_VERSION and apply it later on.
>> >> Alternately we could parse local.conf twice, the first time ignoring
>> >> the PREFERRED lines, and the 2nd time only looking at these.
>> >> Yet another solution could be to split local.conf into two pieces, one
>> >> with settings like MACHINE and DISTRO, the other one with the
>> >> overrides.
>> >
>> > Wouldn't it be far simpler to fix the distro conf file(s)? E.g. apply
>> > something like this:
>> > s/^PREFERRED_VERSION_\([a-z]*\) =/PREFERRED_VERSION_\1 ?=/
>>
>> What's the point of setting a preferred version at all if you make it a
>> weak assignment?
>> The distro nearly always knows better and if you want to use a different
>> version, sending a patch to change that version for review isn't exactly
>> rocket science.
>
>
> How about having decent usability?  The user asking for something and not
> getting it is completely unintuitive.  If the user doesn't know what they
> want, they won't request a specific version.  If they do request it, they
> should get it, anything else is an OE usability issue.

why not use _local override and I think if user want to alter
a distro choice I consider that user to be not a beginner.

> --
> Christopher Larson
> clarson at kergoth dot com
> Founder - BitBake, OpenEmbedded, OpenZaurus
> Maintainer - Tslib
> Senior Software Engineer, Mentor Graphics
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

Without quoting tons of text and without going into each individual
argument given there are a few remarks I want to give.

Things should be consistent and intuitive.
local.conf is for local configuration. as such it suggests that
whatever is in there is leading.
Having to append _local to an override to me is counter-intuitive.
(and *if* that is really desired or needed to have a _local suffix, it
should be documented clearly in the manual. Also an example should be
give in the local.conf.sample file. Afaik neither is the case as of
today). Even for a

Distro's probably know better what does and does not work together,
but in some cases distro's pin recipes for no apparent reason (or
personal developer preference). Users should have an easy way to
override this, and e.g. select a different version.

Also wrt the remark that "distro's know better". The same holds for
machines. As a machine maintainer I know probably better than the
distro which compiler is best for this machine/architecture. Yet as a
machine I am not supposed to pin the version of the compiler.

Have fun! Frans

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Martin Jansa]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 08:08:20AM +0200, Frans Meulenbroeks wrote:
> Without quoting tons of text and without going into each individual
> argument given there are a few remarks I want to give.
> 
> Things should be consistent and intuitive.
> local.conf is for local configuration. as such it suggests that
> whatever is in there is leading.
> Having to append _local to an override to me is counter-intuitive.
> (and *if* that is really desired or needed to have a _local suffix, it
> should be documented clearly in the manual. Also an example should be
> give in the local.conf.sample file. Afaik neither is the case as of
> today). Even for a

Somethimes I had to use normal assignment in distro config just to override
some previous weak assignment from .inc file included and parsed before in 
the same distro config.

So I would much more appreciate commit updating manual/local.conf.sample
than just replacing all distro config with weak-assignments and
expecting that nothing changed.

Regards,

-- 
Martin 'JaMa' Jansa     jabber: Martin.Jansa@gmail.com

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Hauser, Wolfgang (external)]

Hello,

I don't wanted to initiate heavy changes, for my experience: "Don't
change a running system".

I just asked for a simple way to use my preferred version for specific
packages.

As I understand OE, it should be possible to use the main repository
with some view personal changes to get the image I need. 
If I have to change distro and machine configurations and hold them in
my overlay, I can't use improvements of the main repository w/o heavy
changes in my own overlay.

For my opinion, a DISTRO only should be a recommendation for a set of
working peaces and not a "you have to use it" dictation.
There may be individual requirements a DISTRO never will be able to
cover.

Regards
Wolfgang Hauser 


  

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overrules local.conf setting ?

[Khem Raj]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Hauser, Wolfgang (external)
<Wolfgang.Hauser.external@eads.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I don't wanted to initiate heavy changes, for my experience: "Don't
> change a running system".
>
> I just asked for a simple way to use my preferred version for specific
> packages.
>
> As I understand OE, it should be possible to use the main repository
> with some view personal changes to get the image I need.
> If I have to change distro and machine configurations and hold them in
> my overlay, I can't use improvements of the main repository w/o heavy
> changes in my own overlay.
>
> For my opinion, a DISTRO only should be a recommendation for a set of
> working peaces and not a "you have to use it" dictation.
> There may be individual requirements a DISTRO never will be able to
> cover.

well. if you want so many changes to an existing distro then something is wrong
with your distro choice. Few changes can be covered as it should be.

if local overrides are given so much weight than wait for people
asking weird questions and forgetting that they had a change in
local.conf. It has happened
to me and can happen to anybody. The overrides show problems in very subtle
ways sometimes. I think collectively bringing sanity into distros is a
good approach
and few exceptions can be done using local overrides.

I am not in favor of abusing distro's which is what is likely with
such an approach.


>
> Regards
> Wolfgang Hauser
>
>
>
>
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> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
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>

Re: Why PREFERRED_VERSION setting of <distro>.conf overruleslocal.conf setting ?

[Hauser, Wolfgang (external)]

> well. if you want so many changes to an existing distro then something
is wrong
> with your distro choice. Few changes can be covered as it should be.

Don't understand me wrong, a little example what I mean:

I want to use some features in busybox the original DISTRO version don't
use (and the pinned package don't provide), other features of the
original setting I don't need or not allowed to use.
Therefore I have to use an overlay containing my needs (just a different
defconfig for the needed version of the package).

Additionally I need a very minimal busybox configuration for a
maintenance system on the same hardware. Therefore I have to use an
additional defconfig placed in a different package or overlay.

Both are very individual settings and are only flavors of the same
version of the busybox package.

One way to cover this needs is using different local.conf files
containing the different packages I want to use.
(setting preferred provider and version). --> needs the leading of
local.conf
May be can be done by the _local override as suggested, I have to try
it.

Other way is to create an individual distro or machine configuration in
my overlay, which drops me from the improvements of the main repository
and I need to cover all sub settings of the source machine or distro
settings in my own target distro or machine settings. 
This procedure is a waste of work and is error-prone in my opinion.

A good way may be the handling of different flavors of the same package
by supporting sub configurations of the package by creating
individual packages with different configurations. Resulting in e. g.
busybox-<confx>-x.x.x packages I am able to install in an image.
For myself I don't have the knowledge to do such a change in bitbake or
OE.

Regards
Wolfgang Hauser