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From: Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
To: Alex Deucher <alexdeucher-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "Christian König"
	<ckoenig.leichtzumerken-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	"Maling list - DRI developers"
	<dri-devel-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org>,
	"amd-gfx list"
	<amd-gfx-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org>,
	nouveau
	<nouveau-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:46:52 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1199527036.20200511164652@sympatico.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADnq5_MYPcAoWzCcBkJAkd858gCVbJpCJobiwH_BBbwgEdx5rA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>

On Monday, May 11, 2020, 4:27:55 PM, Alex Deucher wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:22 PM Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, May 11, 2020, 1:17:19 PM, "Christian König" wrote:
>> > Hi guys,
>>
>> > Well let's face it AGP is a total headache to maintain and dead for at least 10+ years.
>>
>> > We have a lot of x86 specific stuff in the architecture independent
>> > graphics memory management to get the caching right, abusing the DMA
>> > API on multiple occasions, need to distinct between AGP and driver specific page tables etc etc...
>>
>> > So the idea here is to just go ahead and remove the support from
>> > Radeon and Nouveau and then drop the necessary code from TTM.
>>
>> > For Radeon this means that we just switch over to the driver
>> > specific page tables and everything should more or less continue to work.
>>
>> > For Nouveau I'm not 100% sure, but from the code it of hand looks
>> > like we can do it similar to Radeon.

> Note there is no loss of functionality here, at least on radeon
> hardware.  It just comes down to which MMU gets used for access to
> system memory, the AGP MMU on the chipset or the MMU built into the
> GPU.  On powerpc hardware, AGP has been particularly unstable, and AGP
> has been disabled by default on radeon on powerpc for years now.  In
> fact, this will probably make older hardware more reliable as it takes
> AGP out of the equation.

Alex,

Thanks for the clarification.

If the actual performance impact is little to none, and we end up with
more reliable operation that is certainly beneficial then the change
is indeed for the good.

The  Phoronix  title screaming "AGP Graphics Card Support Proposed For
Removal  From  Linux  Radeon/NVIDIA Drivers" was neither accurate, nor
helpful.

Al

_______________________________________________
amd-gfx mailing list
amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir@sympatico.ca>
To: Alex Deucher <alexdeucher@gmail.com>
Cc: "Christian König" <ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com>,
	"Maling list - DRI developers" <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	"amd-gfx list" <amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	nouveau <nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:46:52 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1199527036.20200511164652@sympatico.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADnq5_MYPcAoWzCcBkJAkd858gCVbJpCJobiwH_BBbwgEdx5rA@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, May 11, 2020, 4:27:55 PM, Alex Deucher wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:22 PM Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, May 11, 2020, 1:17:19 PM, "Christian König" wrote:
>> > Hi guys,
>>
>> > Well let's face it AGP is a total headache to maintain and dead for at least 10+ years.
>>
>> > We have a lot of x86 specific stuff in the architecture independent
>> > graphics memory management to get the caching right, abusing the DMA
>> > API on multiple occasions, need to distinct between AGP and driver specific page tables etc etc...
>>
>> > So the idea here is to just go ahead and remove the support from
>> > Radeon and Nouveau and then drop the necessary code from TTM.
>>
>> > For Radeon this means that we just switch over to the driver
>> > specific page tables and everything should more or less continue to work.
>>
>> > For Nouveau I'm not 100% sure, but from the code it of hand looks
>> > like we can do it similar to Radeon.

> Note there is no loss of functionality here, at least on radeon
> hardware.  It just comes down to which MMU gets used for access to
> system memory, the AGP MMU on the chipset or the MMU built into the
> GPU.  On powerpc hardware, AGP has been particularly unstable, and AGP
> has been disabled by default on radeon on powerpc for years now.  In
> fact, this will probably make older hardware more reliable as it takes
> AGP out of the equation.

Alex,

Thanks for the clarification.

If the actual performance impact is little to none, and we end up with
more reliable operation that is certainly beneficial then the change
is indeed for the good.

The  Phoronix  title screaming "AGP Graphics Card Support Proposed For
Removal  From  Linux  Radeon/NVIDIA Drivers" was neither accurate, nor
helpful.

Al

_______________________________________________
dri-devel mailing list
dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir@sympatico.ca>
To: Alex Deucher <alexdeucher@gmail.com>
Cc: "Christian König" <ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com>,
	"Maling list - DRI developers" <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	"amd-gfx list" <amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	nouveau <nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:46:52 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1199527036.20200511164652@sympatico.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADnq5_MYPcAoWzCcBkJAkd858gCVbJpCJobiwH_BBbwgEdx5rA@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, May 11, 2020, 4:27:55 PM, Alex Deucher wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:22 PM Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, May 11, 2020, 1:17:19 PM, "Christian König" wrote:
>> > Hi guys,
>>
>> > Well let's face it AGP is a total headache to maintain and dead for at least 10+ years.
>>
>> > We have a lot of x86 specific stuff in the architecture independent
>> > graphics memory management to get the caching right, abusing the DMA
>> > API on multiple occasions, need to distinct between AGP and driver specific page tables etc etc...
>>
>> > So the idea here is to just go ahead and remove the support from
>> > Radeon and Nouveau and then drop the necessary code from TTM.
>>
>> > For Radeon this means that we just switch over to the driver
>> > specific page tables and everything should more or less continue to work.
>>
>> > For Nouveau I'm not 100% sure, but from the code it of hand looks
>> > like we can do it similar to Radeon.

> Note there is no loss of functionality here, at least on radeon
> hardware.  It just comes down to which MMU gets used for access to
> system memory, the AGP MMU on the chipset or the MMU built into the
> GPU.  On powerpc hardware, AGP has been particularly unstable, and AGP
> has been disabled by default on radeon on powerpc for years now.  In
> fact, this will probably make older hardware more reliable as it takes
> AGP out of the equation.

Alex,

Thanks for the clarification.

If the actual performance impact is little to none, and we end up with
more reliable operation that is certainly beneficial then the change
is indeed for the good.

The  Phoronix  title screaming "AGP Graphics Card Support Proposed For
Removal  From  Linux  Radeon/NVIDIA Drivers" was neither accurate, nor
helpful.

Al

_______________________________________________
amd-gfx mailing list
amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-05-11 20:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-11 17:17 [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17 ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17 ` Christian König
     [not found] ` <20200511171722.96576-1-christian.koenig-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 17:17   ` [PATCH 1/3] drm/radeon: remove AGP support Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
     [not found]     ` <20200511171722.96576-2-christian.koenig-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:12       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:12         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:12         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]         ` <CADnq5_MyO_L+1w69qDLzhg34W6Qer-uSRR2tb7-2uXLC_6PXSg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12  8:16           ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12  8:16             ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12  8:16             ` Michel Dänzer
     [not found]             ` <ba0b1ab7-3078-a6f2-41cd-326ca21ee99f-otUistvHUpPR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 13:36               ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 13:36                 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 13:36                 ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]                 ` <CADnq5_MdbJUXs7wbG=HCOKj4Vp_NmLkcJng=EXynSXPe9gsyOQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 20:52                   ` Roy Spliet
2020-05-12 20:52                     ` [Nouveau] " Roy Spliet
2020-05-12 20:52                     ` Roy Spliet
     [not found]                     ` <777c08d1-3ac3-16ca-0222-e2d62c281e50-NQbd8FSOZ1kdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 21:12                       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 21:12                         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 21:12                         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]                         ` <CADnq5_NK6ziShvkDug5xGHm7oZTf9qEu41gOxvNANQHFD2a-qQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13  7:46                           ` Christian König
2020-05-13  7:46                             ` [Nouveau] " Christian König
2020-05-13  7:46                             ` Christian König
     [not found]                             ` <5c3da9d3-8b77-e97f-28a2-e1083a53a1d7-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13  7:52                               ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13  7:52                                 ` [Nouveau] " Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13  7:52                                 ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12 18:20       ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:20         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:20         ` Thomas Zimmermann
     [not found]         ` <d0314d28-7ef3-e158-ee05-4802e16c0ecc-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 18:29           ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:29             ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:29             ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 17:17   ` [PATCH 2/3] drm/nouveau: " Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17   ` [PATCH 3/3] drm/ttm: " Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:14   ` [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:14     ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:14     ` Al Dunsmuir
     [not found]     ` <1815605280.20200511161440-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:27       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:27         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:27         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]         ` <CADnq5_MYPcAoWzCcBkJAkd858gCVbJpCJobiwH_BBbwgEdx5rA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:43           ` Dave Airlie
2020-05-11 20:43             ` Dave Airlie
2020-05-11 20:43             ` Dave Airlie
     [not found]             ` <CAPM=9tysbcgQ-KR8+icQ=3e6+SECxkwHdVpP8=w0Pmh9ML_+Lw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:56               ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:56                 ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:56                 ` Al Dunsmuir
     [not found]                 ` <1266714942.20200511165648-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12  8:11                   ` Christian König
2020-05-12  8:11                     ` Christian König
2020-05-12  8:11                     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:59               ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-11 20:59                 ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-11 20:59                 ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-11 20:46           ` Al Dunsmuir [this message]
2020-05-11 20:46             ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:46             ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-12 18:29   ` [Nouveau] " Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:29     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:29     ` Thomas Zimmermann
     [not found]     ` <1f7b3774-8724-7653-3481-9429ae991acc-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 18:32       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:32         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:32         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]         ` <CADnq5_OnoH3YhhEjD7eOrBPPqxQZ+S1cKWRBaUMVnA0V=E0i+Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 19:10           ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 19:10             ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 19:10             ` Thomas Zimmermann
     [not found]             ` <1706b8de-bf4a-e9e1-2163-e782d1c2cc19-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 19:47               ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 19:47                 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 19:47                 ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]                 ` <CADnq5_P6sWt=0zkRm6ySmOb1zr-7VTwLwx+ecEKg-ntJTRfY5A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13  9:27                   ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-13  9:27                     ` [Nouveau] " Emil Velikov
2020-05-13  9:27                     ` Emil Velikov
     [not found]                     ` <CACvgo53k72T+-WUHr2XEwcgMFh-JonQME-He5Pc6hfOk3pr+7A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13 11:03                       ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:03                         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:03                         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:00   ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:00     ` [Nouveau] " Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:00     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-11 19:55 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-11 20:05 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:25   ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-11 20:51     ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12  7:57       ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12  9:21         ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-12  9:40           ` Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)
2020-05-12 13:22             ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 16:37               ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-12 17:02                 ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-12 18:21                   ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 20:12                     ` Dave Airlie
2020-05-13  7:26                       ` Christian König
2020-05-12 18:22                 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-13  7:19                   ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-13  7:55                     ` Christian König
2020-05-13 10:25                       ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-13  9:28                     ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 10:26                       ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13 10:29                         ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-13 10:32                           ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13 10:39                         ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 10:57                           ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13 11:07                             ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 13:44                               ` Christian Zigotzky
2020-05-13 14:01                                 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-13 14:01                                 ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 20:19                                   ` Bertrand Dekoninck
2020-05-13 20:36                                     ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-11 20:41   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-11 20:46     ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 21:50       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-12  7:43       ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:12 ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:24   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-11 20:48     ` Gerhard Pircher
2020-05-12  5:04 ` David VANTYGHEM
2020-05-12  9:20   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

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