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From: Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
To: "Christian König"
	<ckoenig.leichtzumerken-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	dri-devel-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org,
	amd-gfx-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org,
	nouveau-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:00:10 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a4b8b601-b376-448c-d09e-845342dd6423@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200511171722.96576-1-christian.koenig-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org>


[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2079 bytes --]

Hi

Am 11.05.20 um 19:17 schrieb Christian König:
> Hi guys,
> 
> Well let's face it AGP is a total headache to maintain and dead for at least 10+ years.
> 
> We have a lot of x86 specific stuff in the architecture independent graphics memory management to get the caching right, abusing the DMA API on multiple occasions, need to distinct between AGP and driver specific page tables etc etc...
> 
> So the idea here is to just go ahead and remove the support from Radeon and Nouveau and then drop the necessary code from TTM.
> 
> For Radeon this means that we just switch over to the driver specific page tables and everything should more or less continue to work.
> 
> For Nouveau I'm not 100% sure, but from the code it of hand looks like we can do it similar to Radeon.
> 
> Please comment what you think about this.

It's probably not much of a problem in practice.

I guess everyone who plays 3d games has upgraded to something newer.

Wrt desktops, I found that some components of modern desktops (KDE,
Gnome) now have a hard requirement on SSE2. [1][2] But AGP is mostly
used in old 32-bit systems, which don't have SSE2.* So remaining users
of the GART functionality probably don't use any of these desktops.

The simpler WMs are usually usable with only little VRAM. At least they
should not be hit by any performance penalty.

Best regards
Thomas

[1] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1162283
[2] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1077870

* First-generation Athlon 64 have SSE2 and AGP support. But there are
few systems. Around that time AGP was replaced by PCIe.

> 
> Regards,
> Christian.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nouveau mailing list
> Nouveau-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nouveau
> 

-- 
Thomas Zimmermann
Graphics Driver Developer
SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
(HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg)
Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer


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_______________________________________________
Nouveau mailing list
Nouveau-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nouveau

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de>
To: "Christian König" <ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com>,
	dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org,
	nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org
Subject: Re: [Nouveau] [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:00:10 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a4b8b601-b376-448c-d09e-845342dd6423@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200511171722.96576-1-christian.koenig@amd.com>


[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2051 bytes --]

Hi

Am 11.05.20 um 19:17 schrieb Christian König:
> Hi guys,
> 
> Well let's face it AGP is a total headache to maintain and dead for at least 10+ years.
> 
> We have a lot of x86 specific stuff in the architecture independent graphics memory management to get the caching right, abusing the DMA API on multiple occasions, need to distinct between AGP and driver specific page tables etc etc...
> 
> So the idea here is to just go ahead and remove the support from Radeon and Nouveau and then drop the necessary code from TTM.
> 
> For Radeon this means that we just switch over to the driver specific page tables and everything should more or less continue to work.
> 
> For Nouveau I'm not 100% sure, but from the code it of hand looks like we can do it similar to Radeon.
> 
> Please comment what you think about this.

It's probably not much of a problem in practice.

I guess everyone who plays 3d games has upgraded to something newer.

Wrt desktops, I found that some components of modern desktops (KDE,
Gnome) now have a hard requirement on SSE2. [1][2] But AGP is mostly
used in old 32-bit systems, which don't have SSE2.* So remaining users
of the GART functionality probably don't use any of these desktops.

The simpler WMs are usually usable with only little VRAM. At least they
should not be hit by any performance penalty.

Best regards
Thomas

[1] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1162283
[2] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1077870

* First-generation Athlon 64 have SSE2 and AGP support. But there are
few systems. Around that time AGP was replaced by PCIe.

> 
> Regards,
> Christian.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nouveau mailing list
> Nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nouveau
> 

-- 
Thomas Zimmermann
Graphics Driver Developer
SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
(HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg)
Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer


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_______________________________________________
dri-devel mailing list
dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de>
To: "Christian König" <ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com>,
	dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org,
	nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org
Subject: Re: [Nouveau] [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:00:10 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a4b8b601-b376-448c-d09e-845342dd6423@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200511171722.96576-1-christian.koenig@amd.com>


[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2051 bytes --]

Hi

Am 11.05.20 um 19:17 schrieb Christian König:
> Hi guys,
> 
> Well let's face it AGP is a total headache to maintain and dead for at least 10+ years.
> 
> We have a lot of x86 specific stuff in the architecture independent graphics memory management to get the caching right, abusing the DMA API on multiple occasions, need to distinct between AGP and driver specific page tables etc etc...
> 
> So the idea here is to just go ahead and remove the support from Radeon and Nouveau and then drop the necessary code from TTM.
> 
> For Radeon this means that we just switch over to the driver specific page tables and everything should more or less continue to work.
> 
> For Nouveau I'm not 100% sure, but from the code it of hand looks like we can do it similar to Radeon.
> 
> Please comment what you think about this.

It's probably not much of a problem in practice.

I guess everyone who plays 3d games has upgraded to something newer.

Wrt desktops, I found that some components of modern desktops (KDE,
Gnome) now have a hard requirement on SSE2. [1][2] But AGP is mostly
used in old 32-bit systems, which don't have SSE2.* So remaining users
of the GART functionality probably don't use any of these desktops.

The simpler WMs are usually usable with only little VRAM. At least they
should not be hit by any performance penalty.

Best regards
Thomas

[1] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1162283
[2] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1077870

* First-generation Athlon 64 have SSE2 and AGP support. But there are
few systems. Around that time AGP was replaced by PCIe.

> 
> Regards,
> Christian.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nouveau mailing list
> Nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nouveau
> 

-- 
Thomas Zimmermann
Graphics Driver Developer
SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
(HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg)
Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer


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_______________________________________________
amd-gfx mailing list
amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-05-13 11:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-11 17:17 [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17 ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17 ` Christian König
     [not found] ` <20200511171722.96576-1-christian.koenig-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 17:17   ` [PATCH 1/3] drm/radeon: remove AGP support Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
     [not found]     ` <20200511171722.96576-2-christian.koenig-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:12       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:12         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:12         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]         ` <CADnq5_MyO_L+1w69qDLzhg34W6Qer-uSRR2tb7-2uXLC_6PXSg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12  8:16           ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12  8:16             ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12  8:16             ` Michel Dänzer
     [not found]             ` <ba0b1ab7-3078-a6f2-41cd-326ca21ee99f-otUistvHUpPR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 13:36               ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 13:36                 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 13:36                 ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]                 ` <CADnq5_MdbJUXs7wbG=HCOKj4Vp_NmLkcJng=EXynSXPe9gsyOQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 20:52                   ` Roy Spliet
2020-05-12 20:52                     ` [Nouveau] " Roy Spliet
2020-05-12 20:52                     ` Roy Spliet
     [not found]                     ` <777c08d1-3ac3-16ca-0222-e2d62c281e50-NQbd8FSOZ1kdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 21:12                       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 21:12                         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 21:12                         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]                         ` <CADnq5_NK6ziShvkDug5xGHm7oZTf9qEu41gOxvNANQHFD2a-qQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13  7:46                           ` Christian König
2020-05-13  7:46                             ` [Nouveau] " Christian König
2020-05-13  7:46                             ` Christian König
     [not found]                             ` <5c3da9d3-8b77-e97f-28a2-e1083a53a1d7-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13  7:52                               ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13  7:52                                 ` [Nouveau] " Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13  7:52                                 ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12 18:20       ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:20         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:20         ` Thomas Zimmermann
     [not found]         ` <d0314d28-7ef3-e158-ee05-4802e16c0ecc-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 18:29           ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:29             ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:29             ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 17:17   ` [PATCH 2/3] drm/nouveau: " Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17   ` [PATCH 3/3] drm/ttm: " Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 17:17     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:14   ` [RFC] Remove AGP support from Radeon/Nouveau/TTM Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:14     ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:14     ` Al Dunsmuir
     [not found]     ` <1815605280.20200511161440-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:27       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:27         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:27         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]         ` <CADnq5_MYPcAoWzCcBkJAkd858gCVbJpCJobiwH_BBbwgEdx5rA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:43           ` Dave Airlie
2020-05-11 20:43             ` Dave Airlie
2020-05-11 20:43             ` Dave Airlie
     [not found]             ` <CAPM=9tysbcgQ-KR8+icQ=3e6+SECxkwHdVpP8=w0Pmh9ML_+Lw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-11 20:56               ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:56                 ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:56                 ` Al Dunsmuir
     [not found]                 ` <1266714942.20200511165648-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12  8:11                   ` Christian König
2020-05-12  8:11                     ` Christian König
2020-05-12  8:11                     ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:59               ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-11 20:59                 ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-11 20:59                 ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-11 20:46           ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:46             ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-11 20:46             ` Al Dunsmuir
2020-05-12 18:29   ` [Nouveau] " Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:29     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 18:29     ` Thomas Zimmermann
     [not found]     ` <1f7b3774-8724-7653-3481-9429ae991acc-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 18:32       ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:32         ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 18:32         ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]         ` <CADnq5_OnoH3YhhEjD7eOrBPPqxQZ+S1cKWRBaUMVnA0V=E0i+Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 19:10           ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 19:10             ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-12 19:10             ` Thomas Zimmermann
     [not found]             ` <1706b8de-bf4a-e9e1-2163-e782d1c2cc19-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-12 19:47               ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 19:47                 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 19:47                 ` Alex Deucher
     [not found]                 ` <CADnq5_P6sWt=0zkRm6ySmOb1zr-7VTwLwx+ecEKg-ntJTRfY5A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13  9:27                   ` Emil Velikov
2020-05-13  9:27                     ` [Nouveau] " Emil Velikov
2020-05-13  9:27                     ` Emil Velikov
     [not found]                     ` <CACvgo53k72T+-WUHr2XEwcgMFh-JonQME-He5Pc6hfOk3pr+7A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2020-05-13 11:03                       ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:03                         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:03                         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:00   ` Thomas Zimmermann [this message]
2020-05-13 11:00     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-13 11:00     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-05-11 19:55 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-11 20:05 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 20:25   ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-11 20:51     ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12  7:57       ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-12  9:21         ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-12  9:40           ` Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)
2020-05-12 13:22             ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 16:37               ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-12 17:02                 ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-12 18:21                   ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-12 20:12                     ` Dave Airlie
2020-05-13  7:26                       ` Christian König
2020-05-12 18:22                 ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-13  7:19                   ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-13  7:55                     ` Christian König
2020-05-13 10:25                       ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-13  9:28                     ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 10:26                       ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13 10:29                         ` Daniel Vetter
2020-05-13 10:32                           ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13 10:39                         ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 10:57                           ` Michel Dänzer
2020-05-13 11:07                             ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 13:44                               ` Christian Zigotzky
2020-05-13 14:01                                 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-13 14:01                                 ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-13 20:19                                   ` Bertrand Dekoninck
2020-05-13 20:36                                     ` Rui Salvaterra
2020-05-11 20:41   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-11 20:46     ` Alex Deucher
2020-05-11 21:50       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-12  7:43       ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:12 ` Christian König
2020-05-11 20:24   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2020-05-11 20:48     ` Gerhard Pircher
2020-05-12  5:04 ` David VANTYGHEM
2020-05-12  9:20   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

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