[PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>
---
This patch is based on Linus's master branch.

We held a discussion at ELC, and agreed that EXPORT_SYMBOL is more appropriate
for this interface than EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.

 drivers/base/dma-buf.c |   34 +++++++++++++++++-----------------
 1 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 17 deletions(-)

diff --git a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
index 460e22d..24c28be 100644
--- a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
+++ b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
@@ -122,7 +122,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_export(void *priv, const struct dma_buf_ops *ops,
 
 	return dmabuf;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_export);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_export);
 
 
 /**
@@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ int dma_buf_fd(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, int flags)
 
 	return fd;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_fd);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_fd);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_get - returns the dma_buf structure related to an fd
@@ -174,7 +174,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_get(int fd)
 
 	return file->private_data;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_get);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_get);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_put - decreases refcount of the buffer
@@ -189,7 +189,7 @@ void dma_buf_put(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 
 	fput(dmabuf->file);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_put);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_put);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_attach - Add the device to dma_buf's attachments list; optionally,
@@ -234,7 +234,7 @@ err_attach:
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	return ERR_PTR(ret);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_attach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_attach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_detach - Remove the given attachment from dmabuf's attachments list;
@@ -256,7 +256,7 @@ void dma_buf_detach(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct dma_buf_attachment *attach)
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	kfree(attach);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_detach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_detach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_map_attachment - Returns the scatterlist table of the attachment;
@@ -283,7 +283,7 @@ struct sg_table *dma_buf_map_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 
 	return sg_table;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_unmap_attachment - unmaps and decreases usecount of the buffer;might
@@ -304,7 +304,7 @@ void dma_buf_unmap_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 	attach->dmabuf->ops->unmap_dma_buf(attach, sg_table,
 						direction);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
 
 
 /**
@@ -332,7 +332,7 @@ int dma_buf_begin_cpu_access(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, size_t start, size_t len,
 
 	return ret;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_begin_cpu_access);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_begin_cpu_access);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_end_cpu_access - Must be called after accessing a dma_buf from the
@@ -354,7 +354,7 @@ void dma_buf_end_cpu_access(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, size_t start, size_t len,
 	if (dmabuf->ops->end_cpu_access)
 		dmabuf->ops->end_cpu_access(dmabuf, start, len, direction);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_end_cpu_access);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_end_cpu_access);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kmap_atomic - Map a page of the buffer object into kernel address
@@ -371,7 +371,7 @@ void *dma_buf_kmap_atomic(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num)
 
 	return dmabuf->ops->kmap_atomic(dmabuf, page_num);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kmap_atomic);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kmap_atomic);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kunmap_atomic - Unmap a page obtained by dma_buf_kmap_atomic.
@@ -389,7 +389,7 @@ void dma_buf_kunmap_atomic(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num,
 	if (dmabuf->ops->kunmap_atomic)
 		dmabuf->ops->kunmap_atomic(dmabuf, page_num, vaddr);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kunmap_atomic);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kunmap_atomic);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kmap - Map a page of the buffer object into kernel address space. The
@@ -406,7 +406,7 @@ void *dma_buf_kmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num)
 
 	return dmabuf->ops->kmap(dmabuf, page_num);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kmap);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kunmap - Unmap a page obtained by dma_buf_kmap.
@@ -424,7 +424,7 @@ void dma_buf_kunmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num,
 	if (dmabuf->ops->kunmap)
 		dmabuf->ops->kunmap(dmabuf, page_num, vaddr);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kunmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kunmap);
 
 
 /**
@@ -466,7 +466,7 @@ int dma_buf_mmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct vm_area_struct *vma,
 
 	return dmabuf->ops->mmap(dmabuf, vma);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_mmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_mmap);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_vmap - Create virtual mapping for the buffer object into kernel
@@ -487,7 +487,7 @@ void *dma_buf_vmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 		return dmabuf->ops->vmap(dmabuf);
 	return NULL;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_vmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_vmap);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_vunmap - Unmap a vmap obtained by dma_buf_vmap.
@@ -502,4 +502,4 @@ void dma_buf_vunmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, void *vaddr)
 	if (dmabuf->ops->vunmap)
 		dmabuf->ops->vunmap(dmabuf, vaddr);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_vunmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_vunmap);
-- 
1.7.8.6

[PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>
---
This patch is based on Linus's master branch.

We held a discussion at ELC, and agreed that EXPORT_SYMBOL is more appropriate
for this interface than EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.

 drivers/base/dma-buf.c |   34 +++++++++++++++++-----------------
 1 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 17 deletions(-)

diff --git a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
index 460e22d..24c28be 100644
--- a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
+++ b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
@@ -122,7 +122,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_export(void *priv, const struct dma_buf_ops *ops,
 
 	return dmabuf;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_export);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_export);
 
 
 /**
@@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ int dma_buf_fd(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, int flags)
 
 	return fd;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_fd);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_fd);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_get - returns the dma_buf structure related to an fd
@@ -174,7 +174,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_get(int fd)
 
 	return file->private_data;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_get);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_get);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_put - decreases refcount of the buffer
@@ -189,7 +189,7 @@ void dma_buf_put(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 
 	fput(dmabuf->file);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_put);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_put);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_attach - Add the device to dma_buf's attachments list; optionally,
@@ -234,7 +234,7 @@ err_attach:
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	return ERR_PTR(ret);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_attach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_attach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_detach - Remove the given attachment from dmabuf's attachments list;
@@ -256,7 +256,7 @@ void dma_buf_detach(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct dma_buf_attachment *attach)
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	kfree(attach);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_detach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_detach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_map_attachment - Returns the scatterlist table of the attachment;
@@ -283,7 +283,7 @@ struct sg_table *dma_buf_map_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 
 	return sg_table;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_unmap_attachment - unmaps and decreases usecount of the buffer;might
@@ -304,7 +304,7 @@ void dma_buf_unmap_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 	attach->dmabuf->ops->unmap_dma_buf(attach, sg_table,
 						direction);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
 
 
 /**
@@ -332,7 +332,7 @@ int dma_buf_begin_cpu_access(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, size_t start, size_t len,
 
 	return ret;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_begin_cpu_access);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_begin_cpu_access);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_end_cpu_access - Must be called after accessing a dma_buf from the
@@ -354,7 +354,7 @@ void dma_buf_end_cpu_access(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, size_t start, size_t len,
 	if (dmabuf->ops->end_cpu_access)
 		dmabuf->ops->end_cpu_access(dmabuf, start, len, direction);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_end_cpu_access);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_end_cpu_access);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kmap_atomic - Map a page of the buffer object into kernel address
@@ -371,7 +371,7 @@ void *dma_buf_kmap_atomic(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num)
 
 	return dmabuf->ops->kmap_atomic(dmabuf, page_num);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kmap_atomic);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kmap_atomic);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kunmap_atomic - Unmap a page obtained by dma_buf_kmap_atomic.
@@ -389,7 +389,7 @@ void dma_buf_kunmap_atomic(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num,
 	if (dmabuf->ops->kunmap_atomic)
 		dmabuf->ops->kunmap_atomic(dmabuf, page_num, vaddr);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kunmap_atomic);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kunmap_atomic);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kmap - Map a page of the buffer object into kernel address space. The
@@ -406,7 +406,7 @@ void *dma_buf_kmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num)
 
 	return dmabuf->ops->kmap(dmabuf, page_num);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kmap);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_kunmap - Unmap a page obtained by dma_buf_kmap.
@@ -424,7 +424,7 @@ void dma_buf_kunmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, unsigned long page_num,
 	if (dmabuf->ops->kunmap)
 		dmabuf->ops->kunmap(dmabuf, page_num, vaddr);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_kunmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_kunmap);
 
 
 /**
@@ -466,7 +466,7 @@ int dma_buf_mmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct vm_area_struct *vma,
 
 	return dmabuf->ops->mmap(dmabuf, vma);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_mmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_mmap);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_vmap - Create virtual mapping for the buffer object into kernel
@@ -487,7 +487,7 @@ void *dma_buf_vmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 		return dmabuf->ops->vmap(dmabuf);
 	return NULL;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_vmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_vmap);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_vunmap - Unmap a vmap obtained by dma_buf_vmap.
@@ -502,4 +502,4 @@ void dma_buf_vunmap(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, void *vaddr)
 	if (dmabuf->ops->vunmap)
 		dmabuf->ops->vunmap(dmabuf, vaddr);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_vunmap);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_vunmap);
-- 
1.7.8.6

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> escreveu:

> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>

NAK, as already explained at:

http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-January/018281.html

Regards,
Mauro

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> escreveu:

> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>

NAK, as already explained at:

http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-January/018281.html

Regards,
Mauro

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:

> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.

Also I'd note if you are trying to do this for the purpose of combining
it with proprietary code then you are still in my view as a (and the view
of many other) rights holder to the kernel likely to be in breach
of the GPL requirements for a derivative work. You may consider that
formal notification of my viewpoint. Your corporate legal team can
explain to you why the fact you are now aware of my view is important to
them.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Rob Clark]

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>
> NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.

Well, for my contributions to dmabuf, I don't object.. and I think
because we are planning to use dma-buf in userspace for dri3 /
dri-next, I think that basically makes it a userspace facing kernel
infrastructure which would be required for open and proprietary
drivers alike.  So I don't see much alternative to making this
EXPORT_SYMBOL().  Of course, IANAL.

BR,
-R

> Also I'd note if you are trying to do this for the purpose of combining
> it with proprietary code then you are still in my view as a (and the view
> of many other) rights holder to the kernel likely to be in breach
> of the GPL requirements for a derivative work. You may consider that
> formal notification of my viewpoint. Your corporate legal team can
> explain to you why the fact you are now aware of my view is important to
> them.
>
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> dri-devel mailing list
> dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>
> NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.

I think he has that. Maybe he just needs to list them. But this
doesn't change the license on the code at all really, so its actually
not like a re-license where you need approval.

But in any case I personally don't care about this interface being
used if the alternative is they do it themselves. I'm still not going
to debug things with a binary module taint.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:22:34 +1000
Dave Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> escreveu:

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> >
> >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> >
> > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
> 
> I think he has that. Maybe he just needs to list them. 

My understanding it that he doesn't, as the dmabuf interface exposes not only
the code written by this driver's author, but other parts of the Kernel.

Even if someone consider just the dmabuf driver, I participated and actively
contributed, together with other open source developers, during the 3 days 
discussions that happened at Linaro's forum where most of dmabuf design was
decided, and participated, reviewed, gave suggestions approved the code, etc
via email. So, even not writing the dmabuf stuff myself, I consider myself as 
one of the intelectual authors of the solution.

Also, as dmabuf will also expose media interfaces, my understaning is
that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
(possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has 
copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.

As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share 
this point of view.

So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.

Regards,
Mauro

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
>> > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>> >
>> > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
>> > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
>>
>> I think he has that. Maybe he just needs to list them.
>
> My understanding it that he doesn't, as the dmabuf interface exposes not only
> the code written by this driver's author, but other parts of the Kernel.
>
> Even if someone consider just the dmabuf driver, I participated and actively
> contributed, together with other open source developers, during the 3 days
> discussions that happened at Linaro's forum where most of dmabuf design was
> decided, and participated, reviewed, gave suggestions approved the code, etc
> via email. So, even not writing the dmabuf stuff myself, I consider myself as
> one of the intelectual authors of the solution.
>
> Also, as dmabuf will also expose media interfaces, my understaning is
> that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
> (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has
> copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
> core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
>
> As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share
> this point of view.
>
> So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
> considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
> this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
> any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
> Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.

Though that does beg the question why you care about this patch :-)

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Hans Verkuil]

On Wed October 10 2012 23:02:06 Rob Clark wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> >
> >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> >
> > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
> 
> Well, for my contributions to dmabuf, I don't object.. and I think
> because we are planning to use dma-buf in userspace for dri3 /
> dri-next, I think that basically makes it a userspace facing kernel
> infrastructure which would be required for open and proprietary
> drivers alike.  So I don't see much alternative to making this
> EXPORT_SYMBOL().  Of course, IANAL.

The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.

I prefer the evil where the DMABUF API uses EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse
evil where an incompatible API is created to work around the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL
limitation. Neither situation is paradise, but at least one is a slightly less
depressing world than the other :-)

In other words, I'm OK with EXPORT_SYMBOL for whatever it is worth as I did not
do any coding but only some initial design help and reviewing.

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Hans Verkuil]

On Wed October 10 2012 23:02:06 Rob Clark wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> >
> >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> >
> > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
> 
> Well, for my contributions to dmabuf, I don't object.. and I think
> because we are planning to use dma-buf in userspace for dri3 /
> dri-next, I think that basically makes it a userspace facing kernel
> infrastructure which would be required for open and proprietary
> drivers alike.  So I don't see much alternative to making this
> EXPORT_SYMBOL().  Of course, IANAL.

The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.

I prefer the evil where the DMABUF API uses EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse
evil where an incompatible API is created to work around the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL
limitation. Neither situation is paradise, but at least one is a slightly less
depressing world than the other :-)

In other words, I'm OK with EXPORT_SYMBOL for whatever it is worth as I did not
do any coding but only some initial design help and reviewing.

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Hans Verkuil]

On Thu October 11 2012 03:11:19 Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:22:34 +1000
> Dave Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> escreveu:
> 
> > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> > > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > >
> > > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> > > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
> > 
> > I think he has that. Maybe he just needs to list them. 
> 
> My understanding it that he doesn't, as the dmabuf interface exposes not only
> the code written by this driver's author, but other parts of the Kernel.
> 
> Even if someone consider just the dmabuf driver, I participated and actively
> contributed, together with other open source developers, during the 3 days 
> discussions that happened at Linaro's forum where most of dmabuf design was
> decided, and participated, reviewed, gave suggestions approved the code, etc
> via email. So, even not writing the dmabuf stuff myself, I consider myself as 
> one of the intelectual authors of the solution.
> 
> Also, as dmabuf will also expose media interfaces,

That's new to me. All it does is represent a buffer. It doesn't expose any
interfaces, media or otherwise.

> my understaning is
> that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
> (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has 
> copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
> core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
> 
> As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share 
> this point of view.
> 
> So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
> considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
> this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
> any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
> Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.

As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)

BTW, we should consider changing the control framework API to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.
The number of contributors to v4l2-ctrls.c is very limited, and I have no
problem moving that to GPL. For me dmabuf is the rare exception where I prefer
EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse evil of forcing vendors to create incompatible
APIs. It's a sad but true that many GPU drivers are still closed source,
particularly in the embedded world for which dmabuf was primarily designed.

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Hans Verkuil]

On Thu 11 October 2012 09:20:12 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Thu October 11 2012 03:11:19 Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> > Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:22:34 +1000
> > Dave Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> escreveu:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> > > > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > > >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > > >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > > >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > > >
> > > > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> > > > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
> > > 
> > > I think he has that. Maybe he just needs to list them. 
> > 
> > My understanding it that he doesn't, as the dmabuf interface exposes not only
> > the code written by this driver's author, but other parts of the Kernel.
> > 
> > Even if someone consider just the dmabuf driver, I participated and actively
> > contributed, together with other open source developers, during the 3 days 
> > discussions that happened at Linaro's forum where most of dmabuf design was
> > decided, and participated, reviewed, gave suggestions approved the code, etc
> > via email. So, even not writing the dmabuf stuff myself, I consider myself as 
> > one of the intelectual authors of the solution.
> > 
> > Also, as dmabuf will also expose media interfaces,
> 
> That's new to me. All it does is represent a buffer. It doesn't expose any
> interfaces, media or otherwise.
> 
> > my understaning is
> > that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
> > (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has 
> > copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
> > core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
> > 
> > As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share 
> > this point of view.
> > 
> > So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
> > considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
> > this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
> > any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
> > Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.
> 
> As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
> statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)
> 
> BTW, we should consider changing the control framework API to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.
> The number of contributors to v4l2-ctrls.c is very limited, and I have no
> problem moving that to GPL. For me dmabuf is the rare exception where I prefer
> EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse evil of forcing vendors to create incompatible
> APIs. It's a sad but true that many GPU drivers are still closed source,
> particularly in the embedded world for which dmabuf was primarily designed.

One thing I am also worried about is that if vendors can't use dmabuf for their
closed-source GPU driver, then they may not bother making GPL V4L drivers and
instead stick to a proprietary solution (e.g. OpenMAX), Which would be a shame
since we are making good progress with convincing vendors (esp. SoC vendors) to
create GPL V4L2 drivers for their hardware.

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Op 11-10-12 09:51, Hans Verkuil schreef:
>>> my understaning is
>>> that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
>>> (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has 
>>> copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
>>> core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
>>>
>>> As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share 
>>> this point of view.
>>>
>>> So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
>>> considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
>>> this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
>>> any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
>>> Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.
>> As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
>> statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)
>>
>> BTW, we should consider changing the control framework API to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.
>> The number of contributors to v4l2-ctrls.c is very limited, and I have no
>> problem moving that to GPL. For me dmabuf is the rare exception where I prefer
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse evil of forcing vendors to create incompatible
>> APIs. It's a sad but true that many GPU drivers are still closed source,
>> particularly in the embedded world for which dmabuf was primarily designed.
> One thing I am also worried about is that if vendors can't use dmabuf for their
> closed-source GPU driver, then they may not bother making GPL V4L drivers and
> instead stick to a proprietary solution (e.g. OpenMAX), Which would be a shame
> since we are making good progress with convincing vendors (esp. SoC vendors) to
> create GPL V4L2 drivers for their hardware.
Powervr is probably the most well known and I knwo of at least one BSD/GPL driver,
iirc tegra does similar so it should be possible to do similar for their x86 counterparts.
They can still do whatever they want in userspace and are not required to disclose
source for their super secret opengl/cuda/vdpau sauce, cf COPYING.

Usual disclaimer applies, I'm not a lawyer, and speaking for myself here.

~Maarten

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:20:12 +0200
Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> escreveu:

> > my understaning is
> > that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
> > (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has 
> > copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
> > core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
> > 
> > As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share 
> > this point of view.
> > 
> > So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
> > considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
> > this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
> > any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
> > Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.
> 
> As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
> statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)

If you read the Kernel COPYING file, it is explicitly said there that the Kernel
is licensing with GPLv2. The _ONLY_ exception there is the allowance to use
the kernel via normal syscalls:

	   "NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
	 services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
	 of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
	 Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
	 Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
	 kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it."

The usage of EXPORT_SYMBOL() is not covered there, so those symbols are also
covered by GPLv2.

As the usage of a kernel symbol by a proprietary driver is not explicitly
listed there as a GPLv2 exception, the only concrete results of this patch is
to spread FUD, as EXPORT_SYMBOL might generate some doubts on people that
don't read the Kernel's COPYING file. 

With or without this patch, anyone with intelectual rights in the Kernel may
go to court to warrant their rights against the infringing closed source drivers.
By not making it explicitly, you're only trying to fool people that using
it might be allowed.

> BTW, we should consider changing the control framework API to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.

Agreed.

> The number of contributors to v4l2-ctrls.c is very limited, and I have no
> problem moving that to GPL. For me dmabuf is the rare exception where I prefer
> EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse evil of forcing vendors to create incompatible
> APIs. It's a sad but true that many GPU drivers are still closed source,
> particularly in the embedded world for which dmabuf was primarily designed.

My understanding is that even the creation of incompatible Kernel API
is a presumed GPL violation, as it is an attempt to circumvent the license.

Basically, if vendors want to work with closed source, there are other options
in the market. But if they want to work with Linux, they should be contributing
upstream, instead of doing proprietary blobs.

Regards,
Mauro

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
> statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)

Yes. The GPL talks about derivative works (as does copyright law).

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
> zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
> are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
> and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
> thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
> the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
> functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.

Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
of any kind.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
> zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
> are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
> and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
> thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
> the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
> functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.

Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
of any kind.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Hans Verkuil]

On Thu 11 October 2012 13:34:07 Alan Cox wrote:
> > The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
> > zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
> > are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
> > and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
> > thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
> > the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
> > functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.
> 
> Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
> calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
> of any kind.

Out of curiosity: why do we have both an EXPORT_SYMBOL and an EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL
if there is no legal difference?

And if there is a difference between the two, then what is it?

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> > So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
> > considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
> > this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
> > any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
> > Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.
> 
> Though that does beg the question why you care about this patch :-)

Because my legal advice is to object and remind people who suggest
otherwise. There are specific reasons to do so around estoppel and
willful infringement.

It's not a case of objections anyway - if the _GPL matters then it's a
licensing change so you need the approval of everyone whose code is
involved. At that point I think Nvidia are starting in the wrong place
and need to start with a collection of vendors corporate legal contacts
and then work down the call tree involved.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Hans Verkuil]

On Thu 11 October 2012 13:36:45 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Thu 11 October 2012 13:34:07 Alan Cox wrote:
> > > The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
> > > zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
> > > are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
> > > and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
> > > thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
> > > the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
> > > functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.
> > 
> > Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
> > calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
> > of any kind.
> 
> Out of curiosity: why do we have both an EXPORT_SYMBOL and an EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL
> if there is no legal difference?
> 
> And if there is a difference between the two, then what is it?

Answering myself:

http://lwn.net/Articles/154602/

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Hans,

On Thursday 11 October 2012 13:36:45 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Thu 11 October 2012 13:34:07 Alan Cox wrote:
> > > The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share
> > > buffers for zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that
> > > several popular DRM drivers are closed source. So we have a choice
> > > between keeping the export symbols GPL and forcing those closed-source
> > > drivers to make their own incompatible API, thus defeating the whole
> > > point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting the closed source
> > > vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such functions
> > > (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.
> > 
> > Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
> > calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
> > of any kind.
> 
> Out of curiosity: why do we have both an EXPORT_SYMBOL and an
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL if there is no legal difference?
> 
> And if there is a difference between the two, then what is it?

As far as I understand, EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL means "I consider closed-source 
kernel modules as a GPL violation, you can have a different opinion, but then 
don't use my APIs".

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Rob Clark]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
<mchehab@redhat.com> wrote:
> Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:20:12 +0200
> Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> escreveu:
>
>> > my understaning is
>> > that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
>> > (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has
>> > copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
>> > core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
>> >
>> > As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share
>> > this point of view.
>> >
>> > So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
>> > considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
>> > this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
>> > any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
>> > Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.
>>
>> As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
>> statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)
>
> If you read the Kernel COPYING file, it is explicitly said there that the Kernel
> is licensing with GPLv2. The _ONLY_ exception there is the allowance to use
> the kernel via normal syscalls:
>
>            "NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
>          services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
>          of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
>          Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
>          Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
>          kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it."
>
> The usage of EXPORT_SYMBOL() is not covered there, so those symbols are also
> covered by GPLv2.
>
> As the usage of a kernel symbol by a proprietary driver is not explicitly
> listed there as a GPLv2 exception, the only concrete results of this patch is
> to spread FUD, as EXPORT_SYMBOL might generate some doubts on people that
> don't read the Kernel's COPYING file.
>
> With or without this patch, anyone with intelectual rights in the Kernel may
> go to court to warrant their rights against the infringing closed source drivers.
> By not making it explicitly, you're only trying to fool people that using
> it might be allowed.

Maybe a dumb question (I'm a programmer, not a lawyer), but does it
change anything if we make the APIs related to *exporting* a dmabuf as
EXPORT_SYMBOL() and keep the APIs related to *importing* as
EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL().  This at least avoids the non-GPL kernel module
from calling in to other driver code, while still allowing the non-GPL
driver to export a buffer that GPL drivers could use.

BR,
-R

>> BTW, we should consider changing the control framework API to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> The number of contributors to v4l2-ctrls.c is very limited, and I have no
>> problem moving that to GPL. For me dmabuf is the rare exception where I prefer
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse evil of forcing vendors to create incompatible
>> APIs. It's a sad but true that many GPU drivers are still closed source,
>> particularly in the embedded world for which dmabuf was primarily designed.
>
> My understanding is that even the creation of incompatible Kernel API
> is a presumed GPL violation, as it is an attempt to circumvent the license.
>
> Basically, if vendors want to work with closed source, there are other options
> in the market. But if they want to work with Linux, they should be contributing
> upstream, instead of doing proprietary blobs.
>
> Regards,
> Mauro
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:47:15 -0500
Rob Clark <robdclark@gmail.com> escreveu:

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
> <mchehab@redhat.com> wrote:
> > Em Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:20:12 +0200
> > Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> escreveu:
> >
> >> > my understaning is
> >> > that the drivers/media/ authors should also ack with this licensing
> >> > (possible) change. I am one of the main contributors there. Alan also has
> >> > copyrights there, and at other parts of the Linux Kernel, including the driver's
> >> > core, from where all Linux Kernel drivers are derivative work, including this one.
> >> >
> >> > As Alan well said, many other core Linux Kernel authors very likely share
> >> > this point of view.
> >> >
> >> > So, developers implicitly or explicitly copied in this thread that might be
> >> > considering the usage of dmabuf on proprietary drivers should consider
> >> > this email as a formal notification of my viewpoint: e. g. that I consider
> >> > any attempt of using DMABUF or media core/drivers together with proprietary
> >> > Kernelspace code as a possible GPL infringement.
> >>
> >> As long as dmabuf uses EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL that is definitely correct. Does your
> >> statement also hold if dmabuf would use EXPORT_SYMBOL? (Just asking)
> >
> > If you read the Kernel COPYING file, it is explicitly said there that the Kernel
> > is licensing with GPLv2. The _ONLY_ exception there is the allowance to use
> > the kernel via normal syscalls:
> >
> >            "NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
> >          services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
> >          of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
> >          Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
> >          Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
> >          kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it."
> >
> > The usage of EXPORT_SYMBOL() is not covered there, so those symbols are also
> > covered by GPLv2.
> >
> > As the usage of a kernel symbol by a proprietary driver is not explicitly
> > listed there as a GPLv2 exception, the only concrete results of this patch is
> > to spread FUD, as EXPORT_SYMBOL might generate some doubts on people that
> > don't read the Kernel's COPYING file.
> >
> > With or without this patch, anyone with intelectual rights in the Kernel may
> > go to court to warrant their rights against the infringing closed source drivers.
> > By not making it explicitly, you're only trying to fool people that using
> > it might be allowed.
> 
> Maybe a dumb question (I'm a programmer, not a lawyer), but does it
> change anything if we make the APIs related to *exporting* a dmabuf as
> EXPORT_SYMBOL() and keep the APIs related to *importing* as
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL().  This at least avoids the non-GPL kernel module
> from calling in to other driver code, while still allowing the non-GPL
> driver to export a buffer that GPL drivers could use.


IANAL. My understanding is that nothing changes by using either programmer's
dialect: it sounds doubtful that the court would actually take a look
into the Kernel's source code: they're lawyers, not programmers, and
both clauses are just Kernel's source code. Nothing more, nothing less:

EXPORT_SYMBOL, is not EXPORT_SYMBOL_BSD (or similar): this syntax
doesn't bring _any_kind_ of additional licensing rights. That means that
the licensing terms that apply there are just the ones stated at COPYING
file.

So, in any case, the court will judge the allegations based at the Kernel
licensing terms, and will seek if the terms of such licensing were
violated. The court will also likely use formal notifications of
potential infringements, like the ones in this thread, and other
non-technical documents, like meeting reports, email threads, etc,
in order to check who has intelectual rights on the Linux Kernel,
and if the ones that violated the rights did it by purpose.

Regards,
Mauro

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>> The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
>> zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
>> are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
>> and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
>> thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
>> the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
>> functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.
>
> Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
> calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
> of any kind.

But then why object to the change, your objection makes sense, naking
the patch makes none, if you believe in your objection.

Also really its just bullshit handwaving all of it, your objection,
_GPL etc. until someone grows a pair and sues someone, instead of
hiding behind their employment status. If you really believed you were
right, you could retire on the settlement payout.

Dave.

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> > Then they can accept the risk of ignoring EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and
> > calling into it anyway can't they. Your argument makes no rational sense
> > of any kind.
> 
> But then why object to the change, your objection makes sense, naking
> the patch makes none, if you believe in your objection.

[l/k added as I imagine a few other peopel will want to see this who
 don't read driver specific lists, Greg especially I guess]

'estoppel' and because my legal advice is specifically to do so. If you
don't understand why it matters then please get qualified legal advice.

I'm also objecting to the failure to follow proper process. If this does
make a difference as Nvidia seem to think then it is a clear requirement
that you gain permission from every rightsholder affected, as with any
other licensing change.

So I would suggest Nvidia start by going through the call tree and all
potential rightsholders and negotiating with all their corporate
attorneys to get each of them to provide a Signed-off-by: line for that
change and perhaps charge them for a license in the process.

Now as it happens lots of other people have objected to this last time it
was posted, and this time, so maybe they should just recognize the clear
will of the rightsholders concerned and give up on it.

It's very clear how most rights holders involved see the Nvidia
situation. What was it Linus said..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpOyKCNZYw

so right from the top the opinion seems to be fairly clear.

> Also really its just bullshit handwaving all of it, your objection,
> _GPL etc. until someone grows a pair and sues someone, instead of
> hiding behind their employment status. If you really believed you were
> right, you could retire on the settlement payout.

Unlikely as most of the code I've written belongs to Intel or Red Hat. I
also have better things to do with life than sue Nvidia and start an all
out copyright and patent war in Linuxspace.

It's simple enough

If Nvidia think their code is not derivative then why do they care about
the _GPL being significant ?

Nouveau can call the DMA buf methods.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:57:15PM -0700, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Wed October 10 2012 23:02:06 Rob Clark wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:32 -0700
> > > Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > >> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > >> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > >> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > >
> > > NAK. This needs at the very least the approval of all rights holders for
> > > the files concerned and all code exposed by this change.
> > 
> > Well, for my contributions to dmabuf, I don't object.. and I think
> > because we are planning to use dma-buf in userspace for dri3 /
> > dri-next, I think that basically makes it a userspace facing kernel
> > infrastructure which would be required for open and proprietary
> > drivers alike.  So I don't see much alternative to making this
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL().  Of course, IANAL.
> 
> The whole purpose of this API is to let DRM and V4L drivers share buffers for
> zero-copy pipelines. Unfortunately it is a fact that several popular DRM drivers
> are closed source. So we have a choice between keeping the export symbols GPL
> and forcing those closed-source drivers to make their own incompatible API,
> thus defeating the whole point of DMABUF, or using EXPORT_SYMBOL and letting
> the closed source vendors worry about the legality. They are already using such
> functions (at least nvidia is), so they clearly accept that risk.
> 
> I prefer the evil where the DMABUF API uses EXPORT_SYMBOL to prevent the worse
> evil where an incompatible API is created to work around the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL
> limitation. Neither situation is paradise, but at least one is a slightly less
> depressing world than the other :-)
> 
> In other words, I'm OK with EXPORT_SYMBOL for whatever it is worth as I did not
> do any coding but only some initial design help and reviewing.

Thanks for the discussion.

My intention is not to steal any code from the kernel or change any licenses.
The goal here is to allow interoperation between drivers.  I understand that it
can be difficult to debug the kernel when the nvidia binary module is loaded;
I'm not trying to force anyone to do that.  You're free to continue to use your
debug environment without change after this patch is applied.

I believe that the developers and maintainers of dma-buf have provided
the needed signoff, both in person and in this thread.  If there are any
objections from that group, I'm happy to discuss any changes necessary to get
this merged.

- Robert

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> I believe that the developers and maintainers of dma-buf have provided
> the needed signoff, both in person and in this thread.  If there are any
> objections from that group, I'm happy to discuss any changes necessary to get
> this merged.

You need the permission of the owners of all the dependant code that
forms the work. The rules and licence are quite clear, as I think are the
views of several of the rights holders on both the interpretation and
intent of the licensing of their code.

Please go and discuss estoppel, wilful infringement and re-licensing with
your corporate attorneys. If you want to relicense components of the code
then please take the matter up with the corporate attorneys of the rights
holders concerned.

Alan

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>> I believe that the developers and maintainers of dma-buf have provided
>> the needed signoff, both in person and in this thread.  If there are any
>> objections from that group, I'm happy to discuss any changes necessary to get
>> this merged.
>
> You need the permission of the owners of all the dependant code that
> forms the work. The rules and licence are quite clear, as I think are the
> views of several of the rights holders on both the interpretation and
> intent of the licensing of their code.
>
> Please go and discuss estoppel, wilful infringement and re-licensing with
> your corporate attorneys. If you want to relicense components of the code
> then please take the matter up with the corporate attorneys of the rights
> holders concerned.

Alan please stick with the facts. This isn't a relicense of anything.
EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL isn't a license its nothing like a license. Its a
totally pointless thing, it should be
EXPORT_SYMBOL_USERS_MIGHT_BE_DERIVED_CONSULT_YOUR_LAWYER, but it
really should be EXPORT_SYMBOL, and really consult your lawyers
anyways.

Dave.

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

>> Please go and discuss estoppel, wilful infringement and re-licensing with
>> your corporate attorneys. If you want to relicense components of the code
>> then please take the matter up with the corporate attorneys of the rights
>> holders concerned.
>
> Alan please stick with the facts. This isn't a relicense of anything.
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL isn't a license its nothing like a license. Its a
> totally pointless thing, it should be
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_USERS_MIGHT_BE_DERIVED_CONSULT_YOUR_LAWYER, but it
> really should be EXPORT_SYMBOL, and really consult your lawyers
> anyways.
>

Also we should look at this
http://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linaro-mm-sig/2011-September/000616.html

original code posting had no EXPORT_SYMBOL, so the original author's
intents were quite clear.

Dave.

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

b>>
>> Alan please stick with the facts. This isn't a relicense of anything.
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL isn't a license its nothing like a license. Its a
>> totally pointless thing, it should be
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_USERS_MIGHT_BE_DERIVED_CONSULT_YOUR_LAWYER, but it
>> really should be EXPORT_SYMBOL, and really consult your lawyers
>> anyways.
>>
>
> Also we should look at this
> http://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linaro-mm-sig/2011-September/000616.html
>
> original code posting had no EXPORT_SYMBOL, so the original author's
> intents were quite clear.

Yeah so a history research shows this didn't change until v3 of the
code base, and I don't think any lawyers were consulted about changing
the exports then, so I don't see why we should need any now. If we do
need some now, then we needed some then thus making the original
change of the exports a problem.

Now how do I withdraw a Signed-off-by and have dma-buf removed from the kernel?

(not I'm just spouting bullshit here which has as much value as
Alan's, as I said before unless someone grows a pair and sues someone
its all just IANAL and humble opinions.)

Dave.

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>> > Please go and discuss estoppel, wilful infringement and re-licensing with
>> > your corporate attorneys. If you want to relicense components of the code
>> > then please take the matter up with the corporate attorneys of the rights
>> > holders concerned.
>>
>> Alan please stick with the facts. This isn't a relicense of anything.
>
> In your opinion. Are you a qualified IP attorney - NO. Are you my lawyer
> - NO. Does my laywer disagree with you - YES.

Okay then we should remove this code from the kernel forthwith, as I
showed it was illegally relicensed previously in your lawyers opinion.

Dave.

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> > Please go and discuss estoppel, wilful infringement and re-licensing with
> > your corporate attorneys. If you want to relicense components of the code
> > then please take the matter up with the corporate attorneys of the rights
> > holders concerned.
> 
> Alan please stick with the facts. This isn't a relicense of anything.

In your opinion. Are you a qualified IP attorney - NO. Are you my lawyer
- NO. Does my laywer disagree with you - YES.

> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL isn't a license its nothing like a license. Its a
> totally pointless thing,

In your personal viewpoint. I disagree. I'm a rights holder too. 

Several rights holders have made it clear the change is not wanted. It's
over, done, buried. If you want it can go as far as Linus and then he can
get a copy of all the discussion and say that same as he did in the
classic video.

Should I start submitting all the Intel non-free user space X drivers at
this point as there seems to be a dramatic policy change going on here ?

Alan

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:22:04 +1000
Dave Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> >> > Please go and discuss estoppel, wilful infringement and re-licensing with
> >> > your corporate attorneys. If you want to relicense components of the code
> >> > then please take the matter up with the corporate attorneys of the rights
> >> > holders concerned.
> >>
> >> Alan please stick with the facts. This isn't a relicense of anything.
> >
> > In your opinion. Are you a qualified IP attorney - NO. Are you my lawyer
> > - NO. Does my laywer disagree with you - YES.
> 
> Okay then we should remove this code from the kernel forthwith, as I
> showed it was illegally relicensed previously in your lawyers opinion.

That would not be the same question I asked my lawyer.

Anyway I refer you to the Developer's Certificate of Origin 1.1.

Anything Signed off was submitted under the GPL and so is usable as part
of a GPL derived work, but not as part of a non GPL derived work. Thus
Nouveau can happily use it for example. Simples.

And as I said before if Nvidia believe the _GPL makes no difference and
their work is not derivative then it's clearly within their power to just
ignore it, at which point *they* take the risk on their own.

>From the fact this patch keeps getting resubmitted despite repeated
objection I deduce they are in fact of the view it does matter and that
therefore it is a licensing change and they are scared of the
consequences of ignoring it.

Alan

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

> From the fact this patch keeps getting resubmitted despite repeated
> objection I deduce they are in fact of the view it does matter and that
> therefore it is a licensing change and they are scared of the
> consequences of ignoring it.
>

No I think they just want to have to write a pointless hack lie in
their kernel module.

There is no nice way for nvidia developers to say our lawyers don't
think this is a license issues without doing

MODULE_LICENSE("GPL\0 OH NOT WE DIDNT OUR LAWYESR ARE OKAY");

I don't think I'd be going quite into how illegal it is.

The thing is I can't base a useful userspace interface on this, and
since the nvidia driver exists everwhere despite what we'd wish, I'd
rather let the users have some hope of a sane architecture, instead of
nvidia having to replace even more userspace code and kernel code with
their own insane shit.

Dave.

Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

> Unlikely as most of the code I've written belongs to Intel or Red Hat. I
> also have better things to do with life than sue Nvidia and start an all
> out copyright and patent war in Linuxspace.

I forgot to ask, but after your petty G+ trolling, if most of the code
belings to Intel or Red Hat, why do we need to listen to *your*
lawyers advice? It seems like you aren't a major rights holder but a
troll.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Rob Clark]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.


We discussed this topic at the kernel-gfx mini-summit at ELC.
Following the discussion, I agree that dma-buf infrastructure is
intended as an interface between driver subsystems.  And because (for
now) all the other arm SoC gl(es) stacks unfortunately involve a
closed src userspace, and since I consider userspace and kernel as
tightly coupled in the realm of graphics stacks, I don't think we can
really claim the moral high-ground here.  So I can't object to use of
EXPORT_SYMBOL() instead of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL().

That said, I expect the dma-buf infrastructure to still be evolving
and it is the responsibility for out-of-tree users of the API (GPL or
otherwise) to adapt as the dma-buf API changes.  And there isn't much
the in-tree drivers can do when it comes to debugging of buffer
sharing issues with out-of-tree drivers (binary or otherwise), leaving
the debugging responsibility to the owners of different out-of-tree
drivers.

BR,
-R

> Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>
> ---
>  drivers/base/dma-buf.c |   16 ++++++++--------
>  1 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
> index e38ad24..4ed5a5d 100644
> --- a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
> +++ b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
> @@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_export(void *priv, struct dma_buf_ops *ops,
>
>        return dmabuf;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_export);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_export);
>
>
>  /**
> @@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ int dma_buf_fd(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
>
>        return fd;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_fd);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_fd);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_get - returns the dma_buf structure related to an fd
> @@ -152,7 +152,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_get(int fd)
>
>        return file->private_data;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_get);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_get);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_put - decreases refcount of the buffer
> @@ -167,7 +167,7 @@ void dma_buf_put(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
>
>        fput(dmabuf->file);
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_put);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_put);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_attach - Add the device to dma_buf's attachments list; optionally,
> @@ -213,7 +213,7 @@ err_attach:
>        mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
>        return ERR_PTR(ret);
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_attach);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_attach);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_detach - Remove the given attachment from dmabuf's attachments list;
> @@ -235,7 +235,7 @@ void dma_buf_detach(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct dma_buf_attachment *attach)
>        mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
>        kfree(attach);
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_detach);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_detach);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_map_attachment - Returns the scatterlist table of the attachment;
> @@ -265,7 +265,7 @@ struct sg_table *dma_buf_map_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
>
>        return sg_table;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_unmap_attachment - unmaps and decreases usecount of the buffer;might
> @@ -288,4 +288,4 @@ void dma_buf_unmap_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
>        mutex_unlock(&attach->dmabuf->lock);
>
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
> --
> 1.7.3.4
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em 25-01-2012 11:46, Mauro Carvalho Chehab escreveu:
> Em 25-01-2012 10:30, Alan Cox escreveu:
>>> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
>>> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
>>> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
>>> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?
>>
>> The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
>> magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
>> modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.
> 
> Agreed. Such patch won't change anything. The discussions, patch reviews,
> etc were under the assumption that the code will be GPL'd, plus the
> subsystems that are exposed by this interface also assumes that.

>  Any trials to circumvent it seem to violate Kernel owner's rights.

In time, let me rephrase it:

Any trial to circumvent it seems to be an attempt to violate Kernel owner's rights.

> 
>> Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
>> assumptions of legality of binary modules...
>>
>> For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
>> public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
>> for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
>> contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
>> magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
>> containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
>> licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.
>>
>> Alan
> 
> I second Alan:
> 	For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
> 	public license v2 (in a few cases, where explicitly said GPLv2 or later 
> 	or dual GNU/BSD), I have never given permission for that code to be
> 	used as part of a combined or derivative work which contains binary chunks.
> 
> Regards,
> Mauro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em 25-01-2012 10:30, Alan Cox escreveu:
>> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
>> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
>> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
>> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?
> 
> The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
> magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
> modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.

Agreed. Such patch won't change anything. The discussions, patch reviews,
etc were under the assumption that the code will be GPL'd, plus the
subsystems that are exposed by this interface also assumes that. Any trials
to circumvent it seem to violate Kernel owner's rights.

> Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
> assumptions of legality of binary modules...
> 
> For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
> public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
> for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
> contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
> magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
> containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
> licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.
> 
> Alan

I second Alan:
	For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
	public license v2 (in a few cases, where explicitly said GPLv2 or later 
	or dual GNU/BSD), I have never given permission for that code to be
	used as part of a combined or derivative work which contains binary chunks.

Regards,
Mauro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?

The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.

Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
assumptions of legality of binary modules...

For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?

The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.

Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
assumptions of legality of binary modules...

For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Semwal, Sumit]

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:04:57AM -0800, Robert Morell wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> > > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> > > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> > > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>> >
>> > + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> > EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> > suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>>
>> This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?
>>
>> Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
>> dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
>> proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
>> the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
>> argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
>> technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
>> can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
>> will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
>> appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.
>
> Given that I've participated quite a bit in the design of dma_buf as-is,
> let me throw in my totally irrelevant opinion, too ;-)
>
> I'll refrain from comment on the actual patch, it's obviously a hot topic.
> Furthermore I might need to ask Intel's legal dep for guidance to asses
> things wrt my own contributions to dma_buf.
>
> Otoh I'd like nvidia to be on board, especially when we're desingned
> additions to dma_buf required to make it really work for multiple gpus. In
> additions it looks like that the nvidia blob will only be an importer of a
> dma_buf, at least for the use-cases discussed here.
>
> So why don't you just ditch this patch here and add a small shim to your
> blob to interface with drm's prime as an importing driver? I personally
> would deem that acceptable and I think Dave wouldn't mind too much,
> either.

Hi Everyone!

(Apologies for delay in replying; was OoO for past couple of days)

Thanks very much for this discussion - a couple of things:

1. I am definitely willing to make changes as needed to get as many
devices / subsystems / frameworks to use the dma-buf infrastructure.
This could include changing the way symbols are exported, if that is
the *only* way to get things done.

2. With that premise, I quite like the idea that Daniel gave (of
course, in his capacity as one of the top contributors behind dma-buf
infrastructure, and like he said, not as an Intel employee) - so let
me ask the following:

Robert, Dave,
Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?

Also, if some of you are going to be at ELC mid-Feb at SFO, we could
meet up face-to-face and thrash out possible ways forward.
>
> Yours, Daniel
Thanks, and best regards,
~Sumit.
>
> Disclaimer: This is my own opinion and I do not speak as an Intel employee
> here.
> --
> Daniel Vetter
> Mail: daniel@ffwll.ch
> Mobile: +41 (0)79 365 57 48

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Daniel Vetter]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:04:57AM -0800, Robert Morell wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > 
> > + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
> > suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
> 
> This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?
> 
> Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
> dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
> proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
> the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
> argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
> technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
> can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
> will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
> appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.

Given that I've participated quite a bit in the design of dma_buf as-is,
let me throw in my totally irrelevant opinion, too ;-)

I'll refrain from comment on the actual patch, it's obviously a hot topic.
Furthermore I might need to ask Intel's legal dep for guidance to asses
things wrt my own contributions to dma_buf.

Otoh I'd like nvidia to be on board, especially when we're desingned
additions to dma_buf required to make it really work for multiple gpus. In
additions it looks like that the nvidia blob will only be an importer of a
dma_buf, at least for the use-cases discussed here.

So why don't you just ditch this patch here and add a small shim to your
blob to interface with drm's prime as an importing driver? I personally
would deem that acceptable and I think Dave wouldn't mind too much,
either.

Yours, Daniel

Disclaimer: This is my own opinion and I do not speak as an Intel employee
here.
-- 
Daniel Vetter
Mail: daniel@ffwll.ch
Mobile: +41 (0)79 365 57 48

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:04:57AM -0800, Robert Morell wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > 
> > + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I

I am going to defer to what David Airlie recommends.

> > suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
> 
> This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?
> 
> Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
> dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
> proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
> the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
> argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
> technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
> can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
> will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
> appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robert

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.

This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?

Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Robert

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
<mchehab@redhat.com> wrote:
> Em 18-01-2012 10:14, Arnd Bergmann escreveu:
>> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>>>> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>>>> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>>>> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>>
>>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>>
>> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
>> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
>> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
>> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
>>
>> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
>> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
>> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
>> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
>> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
>> encourage those either.
>>
>> NAK
>
> I fully agree with Arnd.
>
> A bug on a driver using such low-level interface could cause side effects
> at the wrong places. In order to handle such bugs, the developers and the
> maintainers of both subsystems need to see the source code of the entire
> pipeline, with is not possible if is there any non-GPL'd driver.

Just as an aside you shouldn't be debugging tainted kernels anyways.

The thing is if we don't provide the interface that is known working
for this, then we end up requiring the nvidia binary to jump through
hoops which is more likely to make thing unstable.

At that point I'd start to seriously consider whether drm needs
dma-buf since one of the things I will get pressure to share buffers
with is for optimus. The pressure isn't from nvidia, but from users
and customers.

I'd like to at least remove debuggabilty from the argument, that is
why we have tainting, if you ignore taint + lsmod output then
export_symbol won't matter.

Dave.

>
> NAK
>
> Mauro.
> --
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Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 06:00:54AM -0800, Dave Airlie wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Ilija Hadzic
> <ihadzic@research.bell-labs.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
> >> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> >> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> >> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> >> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> >> don't forsee that happening.

Yes, this is one potential use case that I have in mind.

This is digressing a bit, but the binary nvidia driver is the best way
that I see that we can support our users with a feature set compatible
to that available to other operating systems.  For technical reasons,
we've chosen to leverage a lot of common code written internally, which
allows us to release support for new hardware and software features much
more quickly than if those of us working on the Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris
drivers wrote it all from scratch.  This means that we share a lot with
other NVIDIA drivers, but we for better or worse can't share much
infrastructure like DRI.

> > Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we have
> > seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn on
> > buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that needs it
> > would turn it on automatically.
> >
> > Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have
> > two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other
> > enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel won't
> > make it possible for said two drivers to work.
> 
> Well the use case at least on x86 would be open x86 driver sharing
> with closed nvidia driver, if two closed drivers wanted to share I'd
> except them to do it internally anyways.

Correct.  Right now, that covers Optimus laptops with Intel integrated
graphics and an NVIDIA GPU.  We'd only use the dma-buf interface in the
case of interoperating with the Intel device.

I only see such hardware becoming more common.  For example, in the
future, if we can't agree on using EXPORT_SYMBOL, then if somebody were
to introduce a laptop that had a Tegra GPU (which uses GPL-compatible
open-source Linux drivers) and a GeForce GPU (which is, as described
above, supported by our existing binary driver) then I imagine we'd have
no choice but to re-implement a different open-source buffer allocation
mechanism for Tegra that could be used between the two, or just continue
using our existing nvhost code.  This, along with every other SoC's
version, is exactly what the dma-buf project was intended to replace.

> > Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is
> > kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to license
> > controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To me it's
> > about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly phylosophical reasons)
> > agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link against non-GPL module.
> >
> > From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the
> > symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author
> > (regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). So
> > if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary driver,
> > they should have explicit permission from the original author to turn its
> > symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.
> 
> Which is the point of their patch, to ask permission from the author.

Right.  I never intended to submit this patch behind anyone's back, I
just wanted to bring this to their attention and ask if the change could
be made so that we could better serve shared-graphics users.

Thanks,
Robert

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Ilija Hadzic wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
> 
> >
> > The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> > subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> > Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> > and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> > don't forsee that happening.
> >

A lot of good stuff is coming out of nvidia these days regarding for
their tegra ARM socs. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the same
boat as Intel and AMD regarding their support for free drivers in
the near future and I think it's worth supporting the people inside
of nvidia that are fighting for that instead of the others that are
against it.

Having more interesting features in nouveau that are not in the
proprietary driver would probably help on that front, too.

> Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is 
> kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to 
> EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to 
> license controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To 
> me it's about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly 
> phylosophical reasons) agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link 
> against non-GPL module.

The controversy is about whether a module is a derived work of the kernel
when you link it in. Traditionally, some modules were not considered
derived works by a lot of people arguing that we have a public module
interface that acts as a barrier for the license in the same way that
the syscall interface lets you run proprietary applications.

The EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is all about symbols that are too low-level
to be considered part of that public module API (assuming that this
API exists). The argument is that symbols which are not meant to be
used in third-party modules can never be a license barrier and
anything using them is a derived work even if you consider other
modules not to be a derived work of the kernel. Note that this
argument can still hold for low-level symbols that are marked as
EXPORT_SYMBOL, using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL just makes it explicit.

	Arnd

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Ilija Hadzic wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
> 
> >
> > The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> > subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> > Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> > and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> > don't forsee that happening.
> >

A lot of good stuff is coming out of nvidia these days regarding for
their tegra ARM socs. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the same
boat as Intel and AMD regarding their support for free drivers in
the near future and I think it's worth supporting the people inside
of nvidia that are fighting for that instead of the others that are
against it.

Having more interesting features in nouveau that are not in the
proprietary driver would probably help on that front, too.

> Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is 
> kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to 
> EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to 
> license controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To 
> me it's about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly 
> phylosophical reasons) agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link 
> against non-GPL module.

The controversy is about whether a module is a derived work of the kernel
when you link it in. Traditionally, some modules were not considered
derived works by a lot of people arguing that we have a public module
interface that acts as a barrier for the license in the same way that
the syscall interface lets you run proprietary applications.

The EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is all about symbols that are too low-level
to be considered part of that public module API (assuming that this
API exists). The argument is that symbols which are not meant to be
used in third-party modules can never be a license barrier and
anything using them is a derived work even if you consider other
modules not to be a derived work of the kernel. Note that this
argument can still hold for low-level symbols that are marked as
EXPORT_SYMBOL, using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL just makes it explicit.

	Arnd

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Ilija Hadzic
<ihadzic@research.bell-labs.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
>
>>
>> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
>> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
>> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
>> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
>> don't forsee that happening.
>>
>
> Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we have
> seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn on
> buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that needs it
> would turn it on automatically.
>
> Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have
> two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other
> enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel won't
> make it possible for said two drivers to work.

Well the use case at least on x86 would be open x86 driver sharing
with closed nvidia driver, if two closed drivers wanted to share I'd
except them to do it internally anyways.

> Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is
> kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to
> EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to license
> controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To me it's
> about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly phylosophical reasons)
> agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link against non-GPL module.
>
> From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the
> symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author
> (regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). So
> if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary driver,
> they should have explicit permission from the original author to turn its
> symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.

Which is the point of their patch, to ask permission from the author.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Ilija Hadzic]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:

>
> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> don't forsee that happening.
>

Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we 
have seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn 
on buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that 
needs it would turn it on automatically.

Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have 
two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other 
enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel 
won't make it possible for said two drivers to work.

On a related note, EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL will still happily link with 
out-of-tree driver, for as long as that driver comes under GPL-compatible 
license. So it's not really a question of whether the driver is 
out-of-tree or in-tree, but it's a question of driver's license.

Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is 
kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to 
EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to 
license controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To 
me it's about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly 
phylosophical reasons) agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link 
against non-GPL module.

>From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the 
symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author 
(regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). 
So if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary 
driver, they should have explicit permission from the original author to 
turn its symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.

-- Ilija

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Ilija Hadzic]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:

>
> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> don't forsee that happening.
>

Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we 
have seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn 
on buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that 
needs it would turn it on automatically.

Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have 
two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other 
enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel 
won't make it possible for said two drivers to work.

On a related note, EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL will still happily link with 
out-of-tree driver, for as long as that driver comes under GPL-compatible 
license. So it's not really a question of whether the driver is 
out-of-tree or in-tree, but it's a question of driver's license.

Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is 
kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to 
EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to 
license controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To 
me it's about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly 
phylosophical reasons) agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link 
against non-GPL module.

>From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the 
symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author 
(regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). 
So if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary 
driver, they should have explicit permission from the original author to 
turn its symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.

-- Ilija

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em 18-01-2012 10:14, Arnd Bergmann escreveu:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>>> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>>> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>>> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>
>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
> 
> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
> 
> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
> encourage those either.
> 
> NAK

I fully agree with Arnd.

A bug on a driver using such low-level interface could cause side effects
at the wrong places. In order to handle such bugs, the developers and the
maintainers of both subsystems need to see the source code of the entire
pipeline, with is not possible if is there any non-GPL'd driver.

NAK

Mauro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>
>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>
> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
>
> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
> encourage those either.

The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
don't forsee that happening.

>From an X.org point of view it would be useful to end-users to allow
this sort of thing, nouveau is a good solution its just not going to
beat the binary driver in a lot of ways, just not sure whether I care
enough yet.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>
>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>
> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
>
> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
> encourage those either.

The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
don't forsee that happening.

From an X.org point of view it would be useful to end-users to allow
this sort of thing, nouveau is a good solution its just not going to
beat the binary driver in a lot of ways, just not sure whether I care
enough yet.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.

We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.

While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
encourage those either.

NAK

	Arnd

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:08:17 -0800
Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:

> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>

Please get a Signed-off-by: from the original authors. In some eyes you
are making what is a licensing change, and that needs the rights holders
permissions.

So this patch at the very least needs approval from TI and Linaro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Semwal, Sumit]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

+ Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.

Best regards,
~Sumit.
<snip>

[PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>
---
 drivers/base/dma-buf.c |   16 ++++++++--------
 1 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)

diff --git a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
index e38ad24..4ed5a5d 100644
--- a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
+++ b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
@@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_export(void *priv, struct dma_buf_ops *ops,
 
 	return dmabuf;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_export);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_export);
 
 
 /**
@@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ int dma_buf_fd(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 
 	return fd;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_fd);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_fd);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_get - returns the dma_buf structure related to an fd
@@ -152,7 +152,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_get(int fd)
 
 	return file->private_data;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_get);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_get);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_put - decreases refcount of the buffer
@@ -167,7 +167,7 @@ void dma_buf_put(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 
 	fput(dmabuf->file);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_put);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_put);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_attach - Add the device to dma_buf's attachments list; optionally,
@@ -213,7 +213,7 @@ err_attach:
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	return ERR_PTR(ret);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_attach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_attach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_detach - Remove the given attachment from dmabuf's attachments list;
@@ -235,7 +235,7 @@ void dma_buf_detach(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct dma_buf_attachment *attach)
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	kfree(attach);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_detach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_detach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_map_attachment - Returns the scatterlist table of the attachment;
@@ -265,7 +265,7 @@ struct sg_table *dma_buf_map_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 
 	return sg_table;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_unmap_attachment - unmaps and decreases usecount of the buffer;might
@@ -288,4 +288,4 @@ void dma_buf_unmap_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 	mutex_unlock(&attach->dmabuf->lock);
 
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
-- 
1.7.3.4