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From: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Joerg Roedel <jroedel@suse.de>,
	Cornelia Huck <cornelia.huck@de.ibm.com>,
	Sebastian Ott <sebott@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	KVM <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>,
	linux-s390 <linux-s390@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Virtualization <virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:18:56 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1446135536.3405.279.camel@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20151029104301-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com>

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On Thu, 2015-10-29 at 11:01 +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> 
> Example: you have a mix of assigned devices and virtio devices. You
> don't trust your assigned device vendor not to corrupt your memory so
> you want to limit the damage your assigned device can do to your
> guest,
> so you use an IOMMU for that.  Thus existing iommu=pt within guest is
> out.
> 
> But you trust your hypervisor (you have no choice anyway),
> and you don't want the overhead of tweaking IOMMU
> on data path for virtio. Thus iommu=on is out too.

That's not at all special for virtio or guest VMs. Even with real
hardware, we might want performance from *some* devices, and security
from others. See the DMA_ATTR_IOMMU_BYPASS which is currently being
discussed.

But of course the easy answer in *your* case it just to ask the
hypervisor not to put the virtio devices behind an IOMMU at all. Which
we were planning to remain the default behaviour.

In all cases, the DMA API shall do the right thing.

-- 
dwmw2



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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: linux-s390 <linux-s390@vger.kernel.org>,
	Joerg Roedel <jroedel@suse.de>, KVM <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Sebastian Ott <sebott@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Virtualization <virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:18:56 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1446135536.3405.279.camel@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20151029104301-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com>


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On Thu, 2015-10-29 at 11:01 +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> 
> Example: you have a mix of assigned devices and virtio devices. You
> don't trust your assigned device vendor not to corrupt your memory so
> you want to limit the damage your assigned device can do to your
> guest,
> so you use an IOMMU for that.  Thus existing iommu=pt within guest is
> out.
> 
> But you trust your hypervisor (you have no choice anyway),
> and you don't want the overhead of tweaking IOMMU
> on data path for virtio. Thus iommu=on is out too.

That's not at all special for virtio or guest VMs. Even with real
hardware, we might want performance from *some* devices, and security
from others. See the DMA_ATTR_IOMMU_BYPASS which is currently being
discussed.

But of course the easy answer in *your* case it just to ask the
hypervisor not to put the virtio devices behind an IOMMU at all. Which
we were planning to remain the default behaviour.

In all cases, the DMA API shall do the right thing.

-- 
dwmw2



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Virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org
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  reply	other threads:[~2015-10-29 16:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 110+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-10-28  6:38 [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:38 ` [PATCH v3 1/3] virtio_net: Stop doing DMA from the stack Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  7:08   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  7:08   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  6:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:38 ` [PATCH v3 2/3] virtio_ring: Support DMA APIs Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:39 ` [PATCH v3 3/3] virtio_pci: Use the DMA API Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:53 ` [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff David Woodhouse
2015-10-28  6:53   ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28  7:09   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  7:09   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  7:17 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  7:17   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  7:40   ` Christian Borntraeger
2015-10-28  7:40     ` Christian Borntraeger
2015-10-28  8:09     ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28  8:09       ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 11:35       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 11:35         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 13:35         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 13:35           ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:05           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:05             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:13             ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:13               ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:22               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:22                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:32                 ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:32                   ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 16:12                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 22:51                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28 22:51                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-29  9:01                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-29  9:01                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-29 16:18                         ` David Woodhouse [this message]
2015-10-29 16:18                           ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-08 10:37                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-08 10:37                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-08 11:49                             ` Joerg Roedel
2015-11-08 11:49                               ` Joerg Roedel
2015-11-10 15:02                               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-10 15:02                                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-10 18:54                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-10 18:54                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-11 10:05                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-11 10:05                                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-11 15:56                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-11 22:30                                       ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-11 22:30                                       ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-12 11:09                                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-12 11:09                                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-12 12:18                                           ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-12 12:18                                             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-11 15:56                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-22 13:06                               ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 13:06                                 ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 15:54                                 ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 15:54                                   ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 17:04                                   ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 17:04                                   ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 22:11                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 22:11                                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-08 12:00                             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-08 12:00                               ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-30 15:16                         ` Joerg Roedel
2015-10-30 15:16                         ` Joerg Roedel
2015-11-11  9:11                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-11  9:11                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-30 16:54                         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-30 16:54                           ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-03 10:24                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2015-11-03 10:24                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2015-10-28 16:12                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  8:36     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-10-28  8:36       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-10-28 11:23       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 11:23         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 13:37         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 13:37           ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:07           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:07             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-19 13:45 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-19 13:45 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-19 21:59   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-19 21:59     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-19 23:38     ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-19 23:38       ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-20  2:56       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-11-20  2:56         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-11-20  8:34         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  8:34         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  8:21       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  8:21         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 15:58         ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 15:58         ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 21:52           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 21:52           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 22:21             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 22:21               ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-23  7:56               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-23  7:56                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 22:21             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 22:21               ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-20  6:56     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  6:56       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  7:47       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  7:47         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-10-28  6:38 Andy Lutomirski

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