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From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>,
	Sebastian Ott <sebott@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	linux-s390 <linux-s390@vger.kernel.org>,
	Cornelia Huck <cornelia.huck@de.ibm.com>,
	Joerg Roedel <jroedel@suse.de>,
	Linux Virtualization <virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>, KVM <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Marcel Apfelbaum <marcel.a@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:56:56 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20151123095453-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <adab330424e9faea591560c4097fc644.squirrel@twosheds.infradead.org>

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:21:34PM -0000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> 
> 
> > There's that, and there's an "I care about security, but
> > do not want to burn up cycles on fake protections that
> > do not work" case.
> 
> It would seem to make most sense for this use case simply *not* to expose
> virtio devices to guests as being behind an IOMMU at all. Sure, there are
> esoteric use cases where the guest actually nests and runs further guests
> inside itself and wants to pass through the virtio devices from the real
> hardware host. But presumably those configurations will have multiple
> virtio devices assigned by the host anyway,  and further tweaking the
> configuration to put them behind an IOMMU shouldn't be hard.

Unfortunately it's a no-go: this breaks the much less esoteric usecase
of DPDK: using virtio devices with userspace drivers.

Well - not breaks as such as this doesn't currently work,
but this approach would prevent us from making it work.

> 
> -- 
> dwmw2

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: linux-s390 <linux-s390@vger.kernel.org>,
	KVM <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, Marcel Apfelbaum <marcel.a@redhat.com>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Sebastian Ott <sebott@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Joerg Roedel <jroedel@suse.de>,
	Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Linux Virtualization <virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:56:56 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20151123095453-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <adab330424e9faea591560c4097fc644.squirrel@twosheds.infradead.org>

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:21:34PM -0000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> 
> 
> > There's that, and there's an "I care about security, but
> > do not want to burn up cycles on fake protections that
> > do not work" case.
> 
> It would seem to make most sense for this use case simply *not* to expose
> virtio devices to guests as being behind an IOMMU at all. Sure, there are
> esoteric use cases where the guest actually nests and runs further guests
> inside itself and wants to pass through the virtio devices from the real
> hardware host. But presumably those configurations will have multiple
> virtio devices assigned by the host anyway,  and further tweaking the
> configuration to put them behind an IOMMU shouldn't be hard.

Unfortunately it's a no-go: this breaks the much less esoteric usecase
of DPDK: using virtio devices with userspace drivers.

Well - not breaks as such as this doesn't currently work,
but this approach would prevent us from making it work.

> 
> -- 
> dwmw2

  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-23  7:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 110+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-10-28  6:38 [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:38 ` [PATCH v3 1/3] virtio_net: Stop doing DMA from the stack Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  7:08   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  7:08   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  6:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:38 ` [PATCH v3 2/3] virtio_ring: Support DMA APIs Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:39 ` [PATCH v3 3/3] virtio_pci: Use the DMA API Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  6:53 ` [PATCH v3 0/3] virtio DMA API core stuff David Woodhouse
2015-10-28  6:53   ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28  7:09   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  7:09   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28  7:17 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  7:17   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  7:40   ` Christian Borntraeger
2015-10-28  7:40     ` Christian Borntraeger
2015-10-28  8:09     ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28  8:09       ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 11:35       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 11:35         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 13:35         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 13:35           ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:05           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:05             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:13             ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:13               ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:22               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:22                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:32                 ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:32                   ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 16:12                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 22:51                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-28 22:51                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-10-29  9:01                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-29  9:01                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-29 16:18                         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-29 16:18                           ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-08 10:37                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-08 10:37                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-08 11:49                             ` Joerg Roedel
2015-11-08 11:49                               ` Joerg Roedel
2015-11-10 15:02                               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-10 15:02                                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-10 18:54                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-10 18:54                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-11 10:05                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-11 10:05                                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-11 15:56                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-11 22:30                                       ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-11 22:30                                       ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-12 11:09                                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-12 11:09                                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-12 12:18                                           ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-12 12:18                                             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-11 15:56                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-22 13:06                               ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 13:06                                 ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 15:54                                 ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 15:54                                   ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 17:04                                   ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 17:04                                   ` Marcel Apfelbaum
2015-11-22 22:11                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 22:11                                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-08 12:00                             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-08 12:00                               ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-30 15:16                         ` Joerg Roedel
2015-10-30 15:16                         ` Joerg Roedel
2015-11-11  9:11                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-11  9:11                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-30 16:54                         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-30 16:54                           ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-03 10:24                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2015-11-03 10:24                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2015-10-28 16:12                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28  8:36     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-10-28  8:36       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-10-28 11:23       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 11:23         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 13:37         ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 13:37           ` David Woodhouse
2015-10-28 14:07           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-10-28 14:07             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-19 13:45 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-19 13:45 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-19 21:59   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-19 21:59     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-11-19 23:38     ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-19 23:38       ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-20  2:56       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-11-20  2:56         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2015-11-20  8:34         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  8:34         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  8:21       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  8:21         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 15:58         ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 15:58         ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 21:52           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 21:52           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 22:21             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 22:21               ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-23  7:56               ` Michael S. Tsirkin [this message]
2015-11-23  7:56                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-22 22:21             ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-22 22:21               ` David Woodhouse
2015-11-20  6:56     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  6:56       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  7:47       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2015-11-20  7:47         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-10-28  6:38 Andy Lutomirski

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