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From: Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@gmail.com>
To: One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>,
	Haiyang Zhang <haiyangz@microsoft.com>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"vkuznets@redhat.com" <vkuznets@redhat.com>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	KY Srinivasan <kys@microsoft.com>,
	"devel@linuxdriverproject.org" <devel@linuxdriverproject.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next] hv_netvsc: don't make assumptions on struct flow_keys layout
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:24:09 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1452795849.1223.112.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160114175304.161ff0af@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

On Thu, 2016-01-14 at 17:53 +0000, One Thousand Gnomes wrote:
> > These results for Toeplitz are not plausible. Given random input you
> > cannot expect any hash function to produce such uniform results. I
> > suspect either your input data is biased or how your applying the hash
> > is.
> > 
> > When I run 64 random IPv4 3-tuples through Toeplitz and Jenkins I get
> > something more reasonable:
> 
> IPv4 address patterns are not random. Nothing like it. A long long time
> ago we did do a bunch of tuning for network hashes using big porn site
> data sets. Random it was not.
> 

I ran my tests with non random IPV4 addresses, as I had 2 hosts,
one server, one client. (typical benchmark stuff)

The only 'random' part was the ports, so maybe ~20 bits of entropy,
considering how we allocate ports during connect() to a given
destination to avoid port reuse.

> It's probably hard to repeat that exercise now with geo specific routing,
> and all the front end caches and redirectors on big sites but I'd
> strongly suggest random input is not a good test, and also that you need
> to worry more about hash attacks than perfect distributions.

Anyway, the exercise is not to find a hash that exactly splits 128 flows
into 16 buckets, according to the number of flows per bucket.

Maybe only 4 flows are sending at 3Gbits, and others are sending at 100
kbits. There is no way the driver can predict the future.

This is why we prefer to select a queue given the cpu sending the
packet. This permits a natural shift based on actual load, and is the
default on linux (see XPS in Documentation/networking/scaling.txt)

Only this driver has a selection based on a flow 'hash'.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@gmail.com>
To: One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>,
	Haiyang Zhang <haiyangz@microsoft.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"devel@linuxdriverproject.org" <devel@linuxdriverproject.org>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next] hv_netvsc: don't make assumptions on struct flow_keys layout
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:24:09 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1452795849.1223.112.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160114175304.161ff0af@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

On Thu, 2016-01-14 at 17:53 +0000, One Thousand Gnomes wrote:
> > These results for Toeplitz are not plausible. Given random input you
> > cannot expect any hash function to produce such uniform results. I
> > suspect either your input data is biased or how your applying the hash
> > is.
> > 
> > When I run 64 random IPv4 3-tuples through Toeplitz and Jenkins I get
> > something more reasonable:
> 
> IPv4 address patterns are not random. Nothing like it. A long long time
> ago we did do a bunch of tuning for network hashes using big porn site
> data sets. Random it was not.
> 

I ran my tests with non random IPV4 addresses, as I had 2 hosts,
one server, one client. (typical benchmark stuff)

The only 'random' part was the ports, so maybe ~20 bits of entropy,
considering how we allocate ports during connect() to a given
destination to avoid port reuse.

> It's probably hard to repeat that exercise now with geo specific routing,
> and all the front end caches and redirectors on big sites but I'd
> strongly suggest random input is not a good test, and also that you need
> to worry more about hash attacks than perfect distributions.

Anyway, the exercise is not to find a hash that exactly splits 128 flows
into 16 buckets, according to the number of flows per bucket.

Maybe only 4 flows are sending at 3Gbits, and others are sending at 100
kbits. There is no way the driver can predict the future.

This is why we prefer to select a queue given the cpu sending the
packet. This permits a natural shift based on actual load, and is the
default on linux (see XPS in Documentation/networking/scaling.txt)

Only this driver has a selection based on a flow 'hash'.

  reply	other threads:[~2016-01-14 18:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-01-07  9:33 [PATCH net-next] hv_netvsc: don't make assumptions on struct flow_keys layout Vitaly Kuznetsov
2016-01-07  9:33 ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2016-01-07 12:52 ` Eric Dumazet
2016-01-07 13:28   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2016-01-07 13:28     ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2016-01-08  1:02     ` John Fastabend
2016-01-08  3:49       ` KY Srinivasan
2016-01-08  3:49         ` KY Srinivasan
2016-01-08  6:16         ` John Fastabend
2016-01-08  6:16           ` John Fastabend
2016-01-08 18:01           ` KY Srinivasan
2016-01-08 21:07     ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-08 21:07       ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-09  0:17   ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-09  0:17     ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-10 22:25 ` David Miller
2016-01-10 22:25   ` David Miller
2016-01-13 23:10   ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-13 23:10     ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14  4:56     ` David Miller
2016-01-14  4:56       ` David Miller
2016-01-14 17:14     ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-14 17:14       ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-14 17:53       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2016-01-14 17:53         ` One Thousand Gnomes
2016-01-14 18:24         ` Eric Dumazet [this message]
2016-01-14 18:24           ` Eric Dumazet
2016-01-14 18:35           ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 18:35             ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 18:48             ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-14 19:15               ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 19:15                 ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 19:41                 ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-14 20:23                   ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 20:23                     ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 21:44                     ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-14 21:44                       ` Tom Herbert
2016-01-14 22:06                       ` David Miller
2016-01-14 22:08                     ` Eric Dumazet
2016-01-14 22:08                       ` Eric Dumazet
2016-01-14 22:29                       ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 22:29                         ` Haiyang Zhang
2016-01-14 17:53     ` Eric Dumazet

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