From: "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <hns@goldelico.com> To: Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com> Cc: "Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>, "Sebastian Reichel" <sebastian.reichel@collabora.co.uk>, "Pali Rohár" <pali.rohar@gmail.com>, "Sebastian Reichel" <sre@kernel.org>, "kernel list" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>, linux-omap <linux-omap@vger.kernel.org>, khilman@kernel.org, "Aaro Koskinen" <aaro.koskinen@iki.fi>, "Ivaylo Dimitrov" <ivo.g.dimitrov.75@gmail.com>, patrikbachan@gmail.com, serge@hallyn.com, abcloriens@gmail.com, clayton@craftyguy.net, martijn@brixit.nl, sakari.ailus@linux.intel.com, "Marek Belisko" <marek.belisko@open-nandra.com>, robh+dt@kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, "Marek Belisko" <marek.belisko@gmail.com> Subject: Re: libbattery was Re: [RFC PATCH 5/5] power: generic-adc-battery: Add capacity handling Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:55:26 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <152FA5B1-75F9-4F0B-9E05-6277CD83C975@goldelico.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20171019162416.GE4394@atomide.com> Hi Tony, > Am 19.10.2017 um 18:24 schrieb Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com>: > > * H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> [171018 08:49]: >> >>> Am 18.10.2017 um 15:22 schrieb Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com>: >>> >>> * H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> [171018 05:49]: >>>>> Am 18.10.2017 um 14:28 schrieb Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>: >>>>> >>>>> So I started something, it is at. >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/pavelmachek/libbattery >>>>> >>>>> My battery on n900 is currently uncalibrated (and charging), still it >>>>> gets some kind of estimation: >>>>> >>>>> Battery -1 % >>>>> Seconds -1 >>>>> State 1 >>>>> Voltage 3.88 V >>>>> Battery 63 % >>>>> >>>>> Of course, there's a lot more work to be done. >>>> >>>> Nice start but not a solution to our problem. >>>> >>>> Our problem is that people simply expect that for example https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/xfce/xfce4-battery-plugin >>>> displays the battery percentage. >>> >>> I think we could make things compatible with various battery apps by >>> having libbattery write back the capacity percentage and time remaining >>> to the kernel driver via sysfs or a dev entry. Then the kernel interface >>> can just display the data to whatever apps. >> >> Hm. That would be quite difficult to understand and maintain code. > > How so? The libbattery can do it all, then the kernel drivers needing > that will just display the most recent values to maintain compability > with battery apps. Well, it looks as if you are thinking about a much more complex solution than I am... The proposal we are discussing as [RFC PATCH 5/5] power: generic-adc-battery: Add capacity handling just reads the current voltage, charging current and uses a (nonlinear) mapping to 0% .. 100%. For that we don't need a library, and we don't need a mechanism to "write back the capacity percentage and time remaining to the kernel driver via sysfs or a dev entry. > >> Why not have the kernel driver do the simple calculations (they do >> not need float) and provide the standard /sys/class/power attribute? > > Because the current remaining capacity and battery empty state depend > on maintaining a database of previous history for battery wear. For remaining capacity I agree that you need that. But this RFC doesn't even want to provide remaining capacity. To avoid such issues. Just provide POWER_SUPPLY_PROP_CAPACITY: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/1/910 So we are discussing to replace these 10 lines with a library, a daemon and a mechanism that the driver can read that from user space? IMHO this can be added in a further step, but shouldn't be backpacked onto this here. > This > data needs to be preserved across reboots, so most likely on a file > on a disk is the way to go. It could also be stored in some i2c eeprom (DT could provide a reference). > > There's a nice summary what all is involved here: > > http://www.mpoweruk.com/soc.htm Oh yes, that is really nice! Using their terms, we just want to add "Voltage Based SOC Estimation" for typical "Lithium chemistry". BTW: this already exists in the twl4030-madc-battery driver and we use it for the GTA04 derivatives without fuel gauge: http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v3.17/source/drivers/power/twl4030_madc_battery.c It uses a table driven approach which was rejected to be converted to DT some time ago. DT maintainers asked to use an estimation formula instead of a table and interpolation. And this patch set does not want to solve all problems in one step :) But it wants to: * make it useable for any battery voltage providing iio adc and not only twl4030 by modifying the generic-adc-battery driver * make the driver device tree compatible (twl4030-madc-battery still isn't) * replace table by fixed point estimation formula fuel_level_LiIon(() as requested Not more. Of course a libbattery can do a lot of additional calculations to predict e.g. time to emtpy or full charge, estimate battery health etc. and provide more precision by filters. We would be very happy to have a simple estimation because it already covers most use cases (some early smartphones had only 4 levels for SOC). And we want to replace the pdata based driver with a DT driver asap. BR and thanks, Nikolaus
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: hns@goldelico.com (H. Nikolaus Schaller) To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Subject: libbattery was Re: [RFC PATCH 5/5] power: generic-adc-battery: Add capacity handling Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:55:26 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <152FA5B1-75F9-4F0B-9E05-6277CD83C975@goldelico.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20171019162416.GE4394@atomide.com> Hi Tony, > Am 19.10.2017 um 18:24 schrieb Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com>: > > * H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> [171018 08:49]: >> >>> Am 18.10.2017 um 15:22 schrieb Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com>: >>> >>> * H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> [171018 05:49]: >>>>> Am 18.10.2017 um 14:28 schrieb Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>: >>>>> >>>>> So I started something, it is at. >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/pavelmachek/libbattery >>>>> >>>>> My battery on n900 is currently uncalibrated (and charging), still it >>>>> gets some kind of estimation: >>>>> >>>>> Battery -1 % >>>>> Seconds -1 >>>>> State 1 >>>>> Voltage 3.88 V >>>>> Battery 63 % >>>>> >>>>> Of course, there's a lot more work to be done. >>>> >>>> Nice start but not a solution to our problem. >>>> >>>> Our problem is that people simply expect that for example https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/xfce/xfce4-battery-plugin >>>> displays the battery percentage. >>> >>> I think we could make things compatible with various battery apps by >>> having libbattery write back the capacity percentage and time remaining >>> to the kernel driver via sysfs or a dev entry. Then the kernel interface >>> can just display the data to whatever apps. >> >> Hm. That would be quite difficult to understand and maintain code. > > How so? The libbattery can do it all, then the kernel drivers needing > that will just display the most recent values to maintain compability > with battery apps. Well, it looks as if you are thinking about a much more complex solution than I am... The proposal we are discussing as [RFC PATCH 5/5] power: generic-adc-battery: Add capacity handling just reads the current voltage, charging current and uses a (nonlinear) mapping to 0% .. 100%. For that we don't need a library, and we don't need a mechanism to "write back the capacity percentage and time remaining to the kernel driver via sysfs or a dev entry. > >> Why not have the kernel driver do the simple calculations (they do >> not need float) and provide the standard /sys/class/power attribute? > > Because the current remaining capacity and battery empty state depend > on maintaining a database of previous history for battery wear. For remaining capacity I agree that you need that. But this RFC doesn't even want to provide remaining capacity. To avoid such issues. Just provide POWER_SUPPLY_PROP_CAPACITY: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/1/910 So we are discussing to replace these 10 lines with a library, a daemon and a mechanism that the driver can read that from user space? IMHO this can be added in a further step, but shouldn't be backpacked onto this here. > This > data needs to be preserved across reboots, so most likely on a file > on a disk is the way to go. It could also be stored in some i2c eeprom (DT could provide a reference). > > There's a nice summary what all is involved here: > > http://www.mpoweruk.com/soc.htm Oh yes, that is really nice! Using their terms, we just want to add "Voltage Based SOC Estimation" for typical "Lithium chemistry". BTW: this already exists in the twl4030-madc-battery driver and we use it for the GTA04 derivatives without fuel gauge: http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v3.17/source/drivers/power/twl4030_madc_battery.c It uses a table driven approach which was rejected to be converted to DT some time ago. DT maintainers asked to use an estimation formula instead of a table and interpolation. And this patch set does not want to solve all problems in one step :) But it wants to: * make it useable for any battery voltage providing iio adc and not only twl4030 by modifying the generic-adc-battery driver * make the driver device tree compatible (twl4030-madc-battery still isn't) * replace table by fixed point estimation formula fuel_level_LiIon(() as requested Not more. Of course a libbattery can do a lot of additional calculations to predict e.g. time to emtpy or full charge, estimate battery health etc. and provide more precision by filters. We would be very happy to have a simple estimation because it already covers most use cases (some early smartphones had only 4 levels for SOC). And we want to replace the pdata based driver with a DT driver asap. BR and thanks, Nikolaus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-10-19 16:56 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2017-08-01 20:55 [RFC PATCH 0/5] Add formula for LiIon batteries to compute capacity Marek Belisko 2017-08-01 20:55 ` [RFC PATCH 1/5] dt-bindings: power: Add battery types Marek Belisko 2017-08-02 11:38 ` Pavel Machek 2017-08-02 11:43 ` Pavel Machek 2017-08-02 11:47 ` Belisko Marek 2017-08-01 20:55 ` [RFC PATCH 2/5] power: generic-adc-battery: Parse more properties from DT Marek Belisko 2017-08-02 11:56 ` Pavel Machek 2017-08-02 11:57 ` Belisko Marek 2017-08-29 9:45 ` Sebastian Reichel 2017-08-01 20:55 ` [RFC PATCH 3/5] power/generic-adc-battery: Add support for temperature and add check for charge from iio current channel Marek Belisko 2017-08-29 9:54 ` Sebastian Reichel 2017-08-01 20:55 ` [RFC PATCH 4/5] power: Add formula for computing LiIon State of Charge from Voltage Marek Belisko 2017-08-01 20:55 ` [RFC PATCH 5/5] power: generic-adc-battery: Add capacity handling Marek Belisko 2017-08-29 10:11 ` Sebastian Reichel 2017-09-08 11:32 ` libbattery was " Pavel Machek 2017-09-08 13:15 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-09-08 13:15 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 12:28 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 12:28 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 12:28 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 12:48 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 12:48 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 12:48 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 13:09 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 13:09 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 13:22 ` Tony Lindgren 2017-10-18 13:22 ` Tony Lindgren 2017-10-18 13:56 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 13:56 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 15:52 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 15:52 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 16:13 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 16:13 ` Pavel Machek 2017-10-18 16:48 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 16:48 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 15:47 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 15:47 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-18 15:47 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-19 16:24 ` Tony Lindgren 2017-10-19 16:24 ` Tony Lindgren 2017-10-19 16:55 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller [this message] 2017-10-19 16:55 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-19 17:06 ` Tony Lindgren 2017-10-19 17:06 ` Tony Lindgren 2017-10-19 17:20 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-19 17:20 ` H. Nikolaus Schaller 2017-10-19 17:33 ` Ladislav Michl 2017-10-19 17:33 ` Ladislav Michl
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