* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 20:01 ` Adrian Bunk
@ 2008-08-28 22:18 ` Greg KH
2008-08-28 23:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-29 1:33 ` Tejun Heo
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2008-08-28 22:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Bunk
Cc: Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:01:20PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:05:53PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote:
> > Hello again,
> >
> > So, after all the fuss, here's the state-of-the-art standard-compliant
> > cloud-computing web-3.0-beta web page for OSS emulation using CUSE.
> >
> > http://userweb.kernel.org/~tj/ossp/
> >
> > It works pretty well here. :-)
>
> Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
> kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
> support ALSA.
>
> The application you list on your webpage is UML host sound support,
> and I'm wondering why you don't fix that instead of working on a
> better OSS emulation?
Independant of that, I can see a number of uses for the CUSE code. One
would be emulating /dev/pilot for old palm pilot software that things it
wants to talk to a serial port, yet really a libusb userspace program
can handle all of the data to the USB device instead.
So don't think that just because this userspace-OSS implementation is
"not what should be done" that CUSE shouldn't be viable.
thanks,
greg k-h
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 22:18 ` Greg KH
@ 2008-08-28 23:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-28 23:14 ` Greg KH
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: H. Peter Anvin @ 2008-08-28 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg KH
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List,
Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
Greg KH wrote:
>
> Independant of that, I can see a number of uses for the CUSE code. One
> would be emulating /dev/pilot for old palm pilot software that things it
> wants to talk to a serial port, yet really a libusb userspace program
> can handle all of the data to the USB device instead.
>
I think that's probably another bad example... I would think serial port
emulation would be better handled by ptys, and/or a specific serial port
emulation module.
The big problem with using ptys for serial port emulation is that they
currently don't handle BREAK at all.
-hpa
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 23:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
@ 2008-08-28 23:14 ` Greg KH
2008-08-28 23:38 ` H. Peter Anvin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2008-08-28 23:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: H. Peter Anvin
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List,
Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 04:05:55PM -0700, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> Greg KH wrote:
>> Independant of that, I can see a number of uses for the CUSE code. One
>> would be emulating /dev/pilot for old palm pilot software that things it
>> wants to talk to a serial port, yet really a libusb userspace program
>> can handle all of the data to the USB device instead.
>
> I think that's probably another bad example... I would think serial port
> emulation would be better handled by ptys, and/or a specific serial port
> emulation module.
Hm, why? It's a "fake" serial port as it is just a pass-through to the
USB device. No flow control or line settings work on the device, so the
kernel driver just silently eats them. But there is old, closed source
software that wants to talk to a serial port, so the kernel driver
remains. With this code, we could then use the more modern libusb code
instead.
I guess you could hook it up through a pty, and somehow create
/dev/pilot/ for it as well, that is an idea to consider.
> The big problem with using ptys for serial port emulation is that they
> currently don't handle BREAK at all.
For this type of USB device, that's not an issue :)
thanks,
greg k-h
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 23:14 ` Greg KH
@ 2008-08-28 23:38 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-28 23:32 ` Alan Cox
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: H. Peter Anvin @ 2008-08-28 23:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg KH
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List,
Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
Greg KH wrote:
>
> Hm, why? It's a "fake" serial port as it is just a pass-through to the
> USB device. No flow control or line settings work on the device, so the
> kernel driver just silently eats them. But there is old, closed source
> software that wants to talk to a serial port, so the kernel driver
> remains. With this code, we could then use the more modern libusb code
> instead.
>
> I guess you could hook it up through a pty, and somehow create
> /dev/pilot/ for it as well, that is an idea to consider.
>
Why? Because there is a lot of complexity in the tty layer, and there
is no point in replicating the entire tty layer with all its ioctls
through a fragile user-space emulator. For cases like this, a pty is
easier (your daemon opens /dev/ptmx, and then symlinks the appropriate
pty to /dev/pilot) and works better.
>> The big problem with using ptys for serial port emulation is that they
>> currently don't handle BREAK at all.
>
> For this type of USB device, that's not an issue :)
Indeed. It would be nice to fix, because it would make implementing
serial ports as ptys+userspace a much more capable replacement. It's
not trivial, though, because the interpretation of the BREAK has to be
done when received, not when sent, which means supporting a 257th value
in the underlying buffer setup.
-hpa
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 23:38 ` H. Peter Anvin
@ 2008-08-28 23:32 ` Alan Cox
0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread
From: Alan Cox @ 2008-08-28 23:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: H. Peter Anvin
Cc: Greg KH, Adrian Bunk, Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List,
Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
> serial ports as ptys+userspace a much more capable replacement. It's
> not trivial, though, because the interpretation of the BREAK has to be
> done when received, not when sent, which means supporting a 257th value
> in the underlying buffer setup.
That bit of the problem is trivial. Its the rest of the behavioural
differences that are more of a nightmare - parity, flow control
differences, modem line emulation, being able to hook into things like
ldisc change/termios change.
Break is about a half hour job.
Alan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 20:01 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-28 22:18 ` Greg KH
@ 2008-08-29 1:33 ` Tejun Heo
2008-08-29 6:50 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-09-02 15:25 ` Pavel Machek
2008-11-27 20:59 ` Jan Engelhardt
3 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Tejun Heo @ 2008-08-29 1:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Bunk
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai,
fuse-devel
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
> kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
> support ALSA.
Yeah, I have to agree it's a bit too late but the exclusion between OSS
and more modern sound systems (be it ALSA or PA) still bugged me quite a
bit. There always seems this one off app that wasn't quite there - be
it mpg123 for whatever reason I still enjoy to use from time to time,
vmware which is a genuine pain in the ass to get working with LD_PRELOAD
tricks (hopefully 6.5 will finally use ALSA but wait we're all going PA
now...) or scorch-3D (and many other games) where aoss delivers horrible
sound after playing for a while.
> The application you list on your webpage is UML host sound support,
> and I'm wondering why you don't fix that instead of working on a
> better OSS emulation?
Other than OSS emulation, CUSE seemed like an idea which might be able
to stand on its own legs, say, for legacy or proprietary device
emulation or just putting what used to be considered kernel-worthy to
userland.
Anyways, the thing is that unlike what was originally expected, dropping
an major programming API doesn't really work too well even after six
years of trying. Maybe because OSS is still kicking on other unices.
We now have in-kernel OSS emulation which can't mux with other streams,
aoss with its own supported and broken list and can also be routed
through PA by configuring ALSA right and then padsp with its own
supported and broken list and nothing works good enough. So, if we have
one thing which just works, we can in time put all those to rest.
Thanks.
--
tejun
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-29 1:33 ` Tejun Heo
@ 2008-08-29 6:50 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-29 7:26 ` Tejun Heo
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Bunk @ 2008-08-29 6:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tejun Heo
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai,
fuse-devel
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 03:33:14AM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
> > kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
> > support ALSA.
>
> Yeah, I have to agree it's a bit too late but the exclusion between OSS
> and more modern sound systems (be it ALSA or PA) still bugged me quite a
> bit. There always seems this one off app that wasn't quite there - be
> it mpg123 for whatever reason I still enjoy to use from time to time,
mpg123 supports ALSA since 1998 (sic).
> vmware which is a genuine pain in the ass to get working with LD_PRELOAD
> tricks (hopefully 6.5 will finally use ALSA but wait we're all going PA
> now...) or scorch-3D (and many other games) where aoss delivers horrible
> sound after playing for a while.
Scorched3D gives me sound with native ALSA.
Is your libSDL not linked with libasound?
>...
> Anyways, the thing is that unlike what was originally expected, dropping
> an major programming API doesn't really work too well even after six
> years of trying.
Good ALSA emulation was a hot topic a few years ago when popular
software like Flash and Skype didn't support ALSA, but the use
cases are becoming rare.
2 out of your 3 examples above were software where native ALSA works,
but your distributions seems to ship you a setup where you thought
OSS emulation was required.
Which distribution are you using whose makers seem to need
a big cluebat?
> Maybe because OSS is still kicking on other unices.
Which Unix with a big userbase uses OSS as primary sound system?
OSS-only applications tend to be older Linux-only applications.
Cross-platform applications either ship half a dozen different sound
drivers (including ALSA), or more commonly use some library that offers
one API no matter which sound system gets used.
>...
> Thanks.
> tejun
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-29 6:50 ` Adrian Bunk
@ 2008-08-29 7:26 ` Tejun Heo
2008-08-29 8:09 ` Miklos Szeredi
2008-08-29 8:21 ` Adrian Bunk
0 siblings, 2 replies; 36+ messages in thread
From: Tejun Heo @ 2008-08-29 7:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Bunk
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai,
fuse-devel
Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> Yeah, I have to agree it's a bit too late but the exclusion between OSS
>> and more modern sound systems (be it ALSA or PA) still bugged me quite a
>> bit. There always seems this one off app that wasn't quite there - be
>> it mpg123 for whatever reason I still enjoy to use from time to time,
>
> mpg123 supports ALSA since 1998 (sic).
Heh.. I probably don't have the right plugin. Oh... it has all the
plugins including pulse. So, this one can be crossed off.
>> vmware which is a genuine pain in the ass to get working with LD_PRELOAD
>> tricks (hopefully 6.5 will finally use ALSA but wait we're all going PA
>> now...) or scorch-3D (and many other games) where aoss delivers horrible
>> sound after playing for a while.
>
> Scorched3D gives me sound with native ALSA.
>
> Is your libSDL not linked with libasound?
I'm not sure at all. It was from openSUSE game repo back in 10.3
earlier this year and it only spoke OSS, but I bet if I try different
games in the current repo, I'll be able to find at least some which
still only work with OSS.
>> Anyways, the thing is that unlike what was originally expected, dropping
>> an major programming API doesn't really work too well even after six
>> years of trying.
>
> Good ALSA emulation was a hot topic a few years ago when popular
> software like Flash and Skype didn't support ALSA, but the use
> cases are becoming rare.
>
> 2 out of your 3 examples above were software where native ALSA works,
> but your distributions seems to ship you a setup where you thought
> OSS emulation was required.
Yeah, that's why I agree it's a bit too late but still better late than
never. There are just some programs, be it commercial or ancient, which
don't work quite as well as it could. Requiring update to ALSA took
painfully long years and we're still not in the clear yet. Now should
we ask people to update to PA?
Then there's arch-um. Yes, you can teach it to forward ALSA but then it
won't mux. The only solution would be to link it against libalsa or
libpulse.
> Which distribution are you using whose makers seem to need
> a big cluebat?
openSUSE. Not sure whether it deserves cluebat tho.
>> Maybe because OSS is still kicking on other unices.
>
> Which Unix with a big userbase uses OSS as primary sound system?
>
> OSS-only applications tend to be older Linux-only applications.
>
> Cross-platform applications either ship half a dozen different sound
> drivers (including ALSA), or more commonly use some library that offers
> one API no matter which sound system gets used.
Most major ones do, but there are programs and games which just haven't
fared off as well as more popular ones and thus just stopped being
updated and then there are commercial games which won't be updated in
any foreseeable future. There are reasons why something as brand new as
pulse comes with something like padsp.
And it's not like CUSE adds whole lot to the kernel. It mostly just
piggy backs on the existing FUSE. Yeah, ioctl and poll are a bit
complex but with those and CUSE proper combined, it's way smaller than
the in-kernel ALSA OSS emulation which is somewhat painful to use these
days.
ossp is simply a better way to support /dev/dsp on modern systems and
bulk of it lives in userland (and I hope this can be the case for future
deprecations too). If for nothing else, it'll enable us to do away with
three different emulations at the very least. I mean we can't of course
do away with padsp and then some still only work with aoss and then we
need in-kernel ALSA OSS emulation as the final fallback when both fail.
It's a big mess and ossp can basically OSS emulation as good as
in-kernel ALSA OSS w/ muxing.
Thanks.
--
tejun
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-29 7:26 ` Tejun Heo
@ 2008-08-29 8:09 ` Miklos Szeredi
2008-08-29 8:21 ` Adrian Bunk
1 sibling, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2008-08-29 8:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tj; +Cc: bunk, linux-kernel, greg, miklos, tiwai, fuse-devel
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, Tejun Heo wrote:
> Most major ones do, but there are programs and games which just haven't
> fared off as well as more popular ones and thus just stopped being
> updated and then there are commercial games which won't be updated in
> any foreseeable future. There are reasons why something as brand new as
> pulse comes with something like padsp.
I have to agree with Tejun, there will always be old executables lying
around and source code that nobody will bother updating that still use
legacy interfaces.
I have a handful of programs that are still OSS only (one of them,
spectemu, being still popular enough to be in several major distros).
I could update them to alsa, but most of them I use once or twice a
year, it doesn't make sense.
In all the world there are probably thousands of such apps, and
porting each and every one to newer interfaces (if it could be done at
all) would probably be a much bigger effort then implementing a
backward compatibility layer for OSS.
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-29 7:26 ` Tejun Heo
2008-08-29 8:09 ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2008-08-29 8:21 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-29 8:28 ` Tejun Heo
1 sibling, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Bunk @ 2008-08-29 8:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tejun Heo
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai,
fuse-devel
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 09:26:03AM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
>...
> >> Anyways, the thing is that unlike what was originally expected, dropping
> >> an major programming API doesn't really work too well even after six
> >> years of trying.
> >
> > Good ALSA emulation was a hot topic a few years ago when popular
> > software like Flash and Skype didn't support ALSA, but the use
> > cases are becoming rare.
> >
> > 2 out of your 3 examples above were software where native ALSA works,
> > but your distributions seems to ship you a setup where you thought
> > OSS emulation was required.
>
> Yeah, that's why I agree it's a bit too late but still better late than
> never. There are just some programs, be it commercial or ancient, which
> don't work quite as well as it could. Requiring update to ALSA took
> painfully long years and we're still not in the clear yet. Now should
> we ask people to update to PA?
>...
Doesn't PA already emulate ALSA?
> ossp is simply a better way to support /dev/dsp on modern systems and
> bulk of it lives in userland (and I hope this can be the case for future
> deprecations too). If for nothing else, it'll enable us to do away with
> three different emulations at the very least. I mean we can't of course
> do away with padsp and then some still only work with aoss and then we
> need in-kernel ALSA OSS emulation as the final fallback when both fail.
> It's a big mess and ossp can basically OSS emulation as good as
> in-kernel ALSA OSS w/ muxing.
The in-kernel OSS emulation also support OSS MIDI.
> Thanks.
> tejun
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-29 8:21 ` Adrian Bunk
@ 2008-08-29 8:28 ` Tejun Heo
0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread
From: Tejun Heo @ 2008-08-29 8:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Bunk
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi, Takashi Iwai,
fuse-devel
Hello,
Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> Yeah, that's why I agree it's a bit too late but still better late than
>> never. There are just some programs, be it commercial or ancient, which
>> don't work quite as well as it could. Requiring update to ALSA took
>> painfully long years and we're still not in the clear yet. Now should
>> we ask people to update to PA?
>> ...
>
> Doesn't PA already emulate ALSA?
There's an ALSA plugin which connects to PA. It works pretty well most
of the time although there are some odd ones which break. Skype didn't
work too well a few months ago. Dunno how it works these days tho and
it's likely that the next iteration of popular audio apps will do PA
directly.
>> ossp is simply a better way to support /dev/dsp on modern systems and
>> bulk of it lives in userland (and I hope this can be the case for future
>> deprecations too). If for nothing else, it'll enable us to do away with
>> three different emulations at the very least. I mean we can't of course
>> do away with padsp and then some still only work with aoss and then we
>> need in-kernel ALSA OSS emulation as the final fallback when both fail.
>> It's a big mess and ossp can basically OSS emulation as good as
>> in-kernel ALSA OSS w/ muxing.
>
> The in-kernel OSS emulation also support OSS MIDI.
Yeah, and adding midi support to ossp won't add one line of code to the
kernel. :-)
Thanks.
--
tejun
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 20:01 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-28 22:18 ` Greg KH
2008-08-29 1:33 ` Tejun Heo
@ 2008-09-02 15:25 ` Pavel Machek
2008-11-27 20:59 ` Jan Engelhardt
3 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Machek @ 2008-09-02 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Bunk
Cc: Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
Hi!
> > So, after all the fuss, here's the state-of-the-art standard-compliant
> > cloud-computing web-3.0-beta web page for OSS emulation using CUSE.
> >
> > http://userweb.kernel.org/~tj/ossp/
> >
> > It works pretty well here. :-)
>
> Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
> kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
> support ALSA.
Did ALSA reach a point where you can support new cards by just
updating the kernel?
I kind of like /dev/dsp interface... and don't see why simple sound
apps should be linked to libalsa... I used to record and play sounds
from shell by cat /dev/dsp...
--
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-08-28 20:01 ` Adrian Bunk
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2008-09-02 15:25 ` Pavel Machek
@ 2008-11-27 20:59 ` Jan Engelhardt
2008-11-28 2:23 ` Tejun Heo
3 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2008-11-27 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Bunk
Cc: Tejun Heo, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
On Thursday 2008-08-28 22:01, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:05:53PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote:
>> Hello again,
>>
>> So, after all the fuss, here's the state-of-the-art standard-compliant
>> cloud-computing web-3.0-beta web page for OSS emulation using CUSE.
>>
>> http://userweb.kernel.org/~tj/ossp/
>>
>> It works pretty well here. :-)
>
>Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
>kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
>support ALSA.
Unreal Tournament GOTY/99 does not (seem to). And I doubt someone
is going to fix commercial games. Though being a static binary,
its use of shared libraries that do the sound device open makes
aoss a possibility, if that helps. But it does not support ALSA
natively - and would make a point for CUSE.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-11-27 20:59 ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2008-11-28 2:23 ` Tejun Heo
2008-11-28 11:35 ` Jan Engelhardt
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Tejun Heo @ 2008-11-28 2:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Engelhardt
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 2008-08-28 22:01, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:05:53PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote:
>>> Hello again,
>>>
>>> So, after all the fuss, here's the state-of-the-art standard-compliant
>>> cloud-computing web-3.0-beta web page for OSS emulation using CUSE.
>>>
>>> http://userweb.kernel.org/~tj/ossp/
>>>
>>> It works pretty well here. :-)
>> Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
>> kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
>> support ALSA.
>
> Unreal Tournament GOTY/99 does not (seem to). And I doubt someone
> is going to fix commercial games. Though being a static binary,
> its use of shared libraries that do the sound device open makes
> aoss a possibility, if that helps. But it does not support ALSA
> natively - and would make a point for CUSE.
The devel version of ossp (not out yet, waiting for CUSE and mmap
support merge) can do all the quakes (even the dreaded quake1 which
even ALSA OSS emulation or native OSS can't do because of strict
sample/freq requirement which modern devices don't support anymore)
and skype-static-oss are working fine. The latency is still a tad bit
high due to PA interaction but everything is mostly in place. I'm
fairly sure UT would work too. Do you know where I can get a demo of
it?
Thanks.
--
tejun
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-11-28 2:23 ` Tejun Heo
@ 2008-11-28 11:35 ` Jan Engelhardt
2008-11-28 12:02 ` Tejun Heo
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2008-11-28 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tejun Heo
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
On Friday 2008-11-28 03:23, Tejun Heo wrote:
>Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>> On Thursday 2008-08-28 22:01, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:05:53PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote:
>>>> Hello again,
>>>>
>>>> So, after all the fuss, here's the state-of-the-art standard-compliant
>>>> cloud-computing web-3.0-beta web page for OSS emulation using CUSE.
>>>>
>>>> http://userweb.kernel.org/~tj/ossp/
>>>>
>>>> It works pretty well here. :-)
>>> Sorry for being destructive, but 6 years after ALSA went into the
>>> kernel we are slightly approaching the point where all applications
>>> support ALSA.
>>
>> Unreal Tournament GOTY/99 does not (seem to). And I doubt someone
>> is going to fix commercial games. Though being a static binary,
>> its use of shared libraries that do the sound device open makes
>> aoss a possibility, if that helps. But it does not support ALSA
>> natively - and would make a point for CUSE.
>
>The devel version of ossp (not out yet, waiting for CUSE and mmap
>support merge) can do all the quakes (even the dreaded quake1 which
>even ALSA OSS emulation or native OSS can't do because of strict
>sample/freq requirement which modern devices don't support anymore)
Quake won't be a problem because its source was released.
>and skype-static-oss are working fine.
Skype should burn in hell...
>The latency is still a tad bit
>high due to PA interaction but everything is mostly in place. I'm
>fairly sure UT would work too. Do you know where I can get a demo of
>it?
It has become really difficult to obtain these nowadays, but there it is:
http://download.beyondunreal.com/get.php/2/official/ut/utdemo-linux-x86-348.tar.gz
(BTW, Firefox3 screws up on loading
http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/official/ut/utdemo-linux-x86-348.tar.gz
w3m works fine and was used to obtain the nested link above.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-11-28 11:35 ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2008-11-28 12:02 ` Tejun Heo
2008-11-28 12:56 ` Jan Engelhardt
0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread
From: Tejun Heo @ 2008-11-28 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Engelhardt
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>> The devel version of ossp (not out yet, waiting for CUSE and mmap
>> support merge) can do all the quakes (even the dreaded quake1 which
>> even ALSA OSS emulation or native OSS can't do because of strict
>> sample/freq requirement which modern devices don't support anymore)
>
> Quake won't be a problem because its source was released.
Well, it's still nice to just download the stock demo and being able
to run it. Has q2 been open sourced too?
>> and skype-static-oss are working fine.
>
> Skype should burn in hell...
Heh... it's the only working IP phone solution over here.
>> The latency is still a tad bit
>> high due to PA interaction but everything is mostly in place. I'm
>> fairly sure UT would work too. Do you know where I can get a demo of
>> it?
>
> It has become really difficult to obtain these nowadays, but there it is:
>
> http://download.beyondunreal.com/get.php/2/official/ut/utdemo-linux-x86-348.tar.gz
>
>
> (BTW, Firefox3 screws up on loading
> http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/official/ut/utdemo-linux-x86-348.tar.gz
> w3m works fine and was used to obtain the nested link above.)
Thanks. Will try that.
--
tejun
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: [ANNOUNCE] OSS Proxy using CUSE
2008-11-28 12:02 ` Tejun Heo
@ 2008-11-28 12:56 ` Jan Engelhardt
0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2008-11-28 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tejun Heo
Cc: Adrian Bunk, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Greg KH, Miklos Szeredi,
Takashi Iwai, fuse-devel
On Friday 2008-11-28 13:02, Tejun Heo wrote:
>Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>>> The devel version of ossp (not out yet, waiting for CUSE and mmap
>>> support merge) can do all the quakes (even the dreaded quake1 which
>>> even ALSA OSS emulation or native OSS can't do because of strict
>>> sample/freq requirement which modern devices don't support anymore)
>>
>> Quake won't be a problem because its source was released.
>
>Well, it's still nice to just download the stock demo and being able
>to run it. Has q2 been open sourced too?
Yes and Q3 too.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread