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From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
Cc: netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@elte.hu, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, hpa@zytor.com,
	gregory.haskins@gmail.com, s.hetze@linux-ag.com,
	Daniel Walker <dwalker@fifo99.com>,
	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: virtio: put last_used and last_avail index into ring itself.
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:27:55 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100506062755.GC8363@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201005061022.13815.rusty@rustcorp.com.au>

On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 10:22:12AM +0930, Rusty Russell wrote:
> On Wed, 5 May 2010 03:52:36 am Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > virtio: put last_used and last_avail index into ring itself.
> > > 
> > > Generally, the other end of the virtio ring doesn't need to see where
> > > you're up to in consuming the ring.  However, to completely understand
> > > what's going on from the outside, this information must be exposed.
> > > For example, if you want to save and restore a virtio_ring, but you're
> > > not the consumer because the kernel is using it directly.
> > > 
> > > Fortunately, we have room to expand: the ring is always a whole number
> > > of pages and there's hundreds of bytes of padding after the avail ring
> > > and the used ring, whatever the number of descriptors (which must be a
> > > power of 2).
> > > 
> > > We add a feature bit so the guest can tell the host that it's writing
> > > out the current value there, if it wants to use that.
> > > 
> > > Signed-off-by: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
> > 
> > I've been looking at this patch some more (more on why
> > later), and I wonder: would it be better to add some
> > alignment to the last used index address, so that
> > if we later add more stuff at the tail, it all
> > fits in a single cache line?
> 
> In theory, but not in practice.  We don't have many rings, so the
> difference between 1 and 2 cache lines is not very much.

Fair enough.

> > We use a new feature bit anyway, so layout change should not be
> > a problem.
> > 
> > Since I raised the question of caches: for used ring,
> > the ring is not aligned to 64 bit, so on CPUs with 64 bit
> > or larger cache lines, used entries will often cross
> > cache line boundaries. Am I right and might it
> > have been better to align ring entries to cache line boundaries?
> > 
> > What do you think?
> 
> I think everyone is settled on 128 byte cache lines for the forseeable
> future, so it's not really an issue.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rusty.

You mean with 64 bit descriptors we will be bouncing a cache line
between host and guest, anyway?

-- 
MST

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
Cc: netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@elte.hu, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, hpa@zytor.com,
	gregory.haskins@gmail.com, s.hetze@linux-ag.com,
	Daniel Walker <dwalker@fifo99.com>,
	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: virtio: put last_used and last_avail index into ring itself.
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:27:55 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100506062755.GC8363@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201005061022.13815.rusty@rustcorp.com.au>

On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 10:22:12AM +0930, Rusty Russell wrote:
> On Wed, 5 May 2010 03:52:36 am Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > virtio: put last_used and last_avail index into ring itself.
> > > 
> > > Generally, the other end of the virtio ring doesn't need to see where
> > > you're up to in consuming the ring.  However, to completely understand
> > > what's going on from the outside, this information must be exposed.
> > > For example, if you want to save and restore a virtio_ring, but you're
> > > not the consumer because the kernel is using it directly.
> > > 
> > > Fortunately, we have room to expand: the ring is always a whole number
> > > of pages and there's hundreds of bytes of padding after the avail ring
> > > and the used ring, whatever the number of descriptors (which must be a
> > > power of 2).
> > > 
> > > We add a feature bit so the guest can tell the host that it's writing
> > > out the current value there, if it wants to use that.
> > > 
> > > Signed-off-by: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
> > 
> > I've been looking at this patch some more (more on why
> > later), and I wonder: would it be better to add some
> > alignment to the last used index address, so that
> > if we later add more stuff at the tail, it all
> > fits in a single cache line?
> 
> In theory, but not in practice.  We don't have many rings, so the
> difference between 1 and 2 cache lines is not very much.

Fair enough.

> > We use a new feature bit anyway, so layout change should not be
> > a problem.
> > 
> > Since I raised the question of caches: for used ring,
> > the ring is not aligned to 64 bit, so on CPUs with 64 bit
> > or larger cache lines, used entries will often cross
> > cache line boundaries. Am I right and might it
> > have been better to align ring entries to cache line boundaries?
> > 
> > What do you think?
> 
> I think everyone is settled on 128 byte cache lines for the forseeable
> future, so it's not really an issue.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rusty.

You mean with 64 bit descriptors we will be bouncing a cache line
between host and guest, anyway?

-- 
MST

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-05-06  6:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 51+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <cover.1257349249.git.mst@redhat.com>
2009-11-04 15:55 ` [PATCHv8 1/3] tun: export underlying socket Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55 ` [PATCHv8 2/3] mm: export use_mm/unuse_mm to modules Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:55   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:57 ` [PATCHv8 3/3] vhost_net: a kernel-level virtio server Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:57 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:57   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-04 15:57   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-06  4:59   ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-06  4:59   ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-06  4:59     ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-08 11:35     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-08 11:35       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09  6:17       ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-09  6:17       ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-09  6:17         ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-09  7:10         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09  7:10           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-10  1:08           ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10  1:08             ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10  1:08           ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-09  7:10         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09  7:20         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09  7:20           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09  7:20         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09 11:55         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09 11:55           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-09 11:55         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-04 18:22         ` virtio: put last_used and last_avail index into ring itself Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-04 18:22           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-06  0:52           ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-06  0:52           ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-06  0:52             ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-06  6:27             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-06  6:27             ` Michael S. Tsirkin [this message]
2010-05-06  6:27               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-07  3:05               ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:05               ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:05                 ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-09  8:57                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-09  8:57                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-09  8:57                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-10  3:11                   ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-10  3:11                     ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-10  3:11                   ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-04 18:22         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2009-11-08 11:35     ` [PATCHv8 3/3] vhost_net: a kernel-level virtio server Michael S. Tsirkin

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