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From: Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 12/12] vmscan: Do not writeback pages in direct reclaim
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:54:08 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100615135408.GJ26788@csn.ul.ie> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100615133727.GA27980@infradead.org>

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 09:37:27AM -0400, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 09:34:18AM -0400, Rik van Riel wrote:
> > If direct reclaim can overflow the stack, so can direct
> > memcg reclaim.  That means this patch does not solve the
> > stack overflow, while admitting that we do need the
> > ability to get specific pages flushed to disk from the
> > pageout code.
> 
> Can you explain what the hell memcg reclaim is and why it needs
> to reclaim from random contexts?

Kamezawa Hiroyuki has the full story here but here is a summary.

memcg is the Memory Controller cgroup
(Documentation/cgroups/memory.txt). It's intended for the control of the
amount of memory usable by a group of processes but its behaviour in
terms of reclaim differs from global reclaim. It has its own LRU lists
and kswapd operates on them. What is surprising is that direct reclaim
for a process in the control group also does not operate within the
cgroup.

Reclaim from a cgroup happens from the fault path. The new page is
"charged" to the cgroup. If it exceeds its allocated resources, some
pages within the group are reclaimed in a path that is similar to direct
reclaim except for its entry point.

So, memcg is not reclaiming from a random context, there is a limited
number of cases where a memcg is reclaiming and it is not expected to
overflow the stack.

> It seems everything that has a cg in it's name that I stumbled over
> lately seems to be some ugly wart..
> 

The wart in this case is that the behaviour of page reclaim within a
memcg and globally differ a fair bit.

-- 
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student                          Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick                         IBM Dublin Software Lab

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 12/12] vmscan: Do not writeback pages in direct reclaim
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:54:08 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100615135408.GJ26788@csn.ul.ie> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100615133727.GA27980@infradead.org>

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 09:37:27AM -0400, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 09:34:18AM -0400, Rik van Riel wrote:
> > If direct reclaim can overflow the stack, so can direct
> > memcg reclaim.  That means this patch does not solve the
> > stack overflow, while admitting that we do need the
> > ability to get specific pages flushed to disk from the
> > pageout code.
> 
> Can you explain what the hell memcg reclaim is and why it needs
> to reclaim from random contexts?

Kamezawa Hiroyuki has the full story here but here is a summary.

memcg is the Memory Controller cgroup
(Documentation/cgroups/memory.txt). It's intended for the control of the
amount of memory usable by a group of processes but its behaviour in
terms of reclaim differs from global reclaim. It has its own LRU lists
and kswapd operates on them. What is surprising is that direct reclaim
for a process in the control group also does not operate within the
cgroup.

Reclaim from a cgroup happens from the fault path. The new page is
"charged" to the cgroup. If it exceeds its allocated resources, some
pages within the group are reclaimed in a path that is similar to direct
reclaim except for its entry point.

So, memcg is not reclaiming from a random context, there is a limited
number of cases where a memcg is reclaiming and it is not expected to
overflow the stack.

> It seems everything that has a cg in it's name that I stumbled over
> lately seems to be some ugly wart..
> 

The wart in this case is that the behaviour of page reclaim within a
memcg and globally differ a fair bit.

-- 
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student                          Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick                         IBM Dublin Software Lab

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  reply	other threads:[~2010-06-15 13:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 198+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-06-14 11:17 [PATCH 0/12] Avoid overflowing of stack during page reclaim V2 Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 01/12] tracing, vmscan: Add trace events for kswapd wakeup, sleeping and direct reclaim Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 15:45   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 15:45     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 21:01   ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 21:01     ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 02/12] tracing, vmscan: Add trace events for LRU page isolation Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 16:47   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 16:47     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 21:02   ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 21:02     ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 03/12] tracing, vmscan: Add trace event when a page is written Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 16:48   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 16:48     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 21:02   ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 21:02     ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 04/12] tracing, vmscan: Add a postprocessing script for reclaim-related ftrace events Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 17:55   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 17:55     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 21:03   ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 21:03     ` Larry Woodman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 05/12] vmscan: kill prev_priority completely Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 18:04   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 18:04     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16 23:37   ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-16 23:37     ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-16 23:45     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16 23:45       ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-17  0:18       ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-17  0:18         ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-17  0:34         ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-17  0:34           ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-25  8:29     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-06-25  8:29       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-06-28 10:35       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-28 10:35         ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 06/12] vmscan: simplify shrink_inactive_list() Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 18:06   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 18:06     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 10:13     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 10:13       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 07/12] vmscan: Remove unnecessary temporary vars in do_try_to_free_pages Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 18:14   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 18:14     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 08/12] vmscan: Setup pagevec as late as possible in shrink_inactive_list() Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 18:59   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 18:59     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 10:47   ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 10:47     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 15:56     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 15:56       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-16 23:43   ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-16 23:43     ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-17 10:30     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-17 10:30       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 09/12] vmscan: Setup pagevec as late as possible in shrink_page_list() Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 19:24   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 19:24     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16 23:48   ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-16 23:48     ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-17 10:46     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-17 10:46       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 10/12] vmscan: Update isolated page counters outside of main path in shrink_inactive_list() Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 19:42   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 19:42     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 11/12] vmscan: Write out dirty pages in batch Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 21:13   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 21:13     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 10:18     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 10:18       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 23:11   ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-14 23:11     ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-14 23:21     ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-14 23:21       ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  0:39       ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15  0:39         ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15  1:16         ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15  1:16           ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15  1:45           ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  1:45             ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  4:08             ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15  4:08               ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15  4:37               ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  4:37                 ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  5:12                 ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15  5:12                   ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15  5:43                   ` [patch] mm: vmscan fix mapping use after free Nick Piggin
2010-06-15  5:43                     ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 13:23                     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 13:23                       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:01           ` [PATCH 11/12] vmscan: Write out dirty pages in batch Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:01             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 13:32             ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 13:32               ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15  1:39         ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  1:39           ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  3:20           ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15  3:20             ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15  4:15             ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  4:15               ` Andrew Morton
2010-06-15  6:36               ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15  6:36                 ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15 10:28                 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2010-06-15 10:28                   ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2010-06-15 10:55                   ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 10:55                     ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 11:10                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:10                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:20                       ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 11:20                         ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 23:20                     ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-15 23:20                       ` Dave Chinner
2010-06-16  6:04                       ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-16  6:04                         ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 11:08                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:08                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:43               ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:43                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 13:07                 ` tytso
2010-06-15 13:07                   ` tytso
2010-06-15 15:44                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 15:44                   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 10:57       ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 10:57         ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 10:53   ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 10:53     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:11     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:11       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:13     ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-15 11:13       ` Nick Piggin
2010-06-14 11:17 ` [PATCH 12/12] vmscan: Do not writeback pages in direct reclaim Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 11:17   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-14 21:55   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-14 21:55     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 11:45     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:45       ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 13:34       ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 13:34         ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 13:37         ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 13:37           ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 13:54           ` Mel Gorman [this message]
2010-06-15 13:54             ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-16  0:30             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  0:30               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-15 14:02           ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 14:02             ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 13:59         ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 13:59           ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 14:04           ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 14:04             ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-15 14:16             ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 14:16               ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-16  0:17               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  0:17                 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  0:29                 ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16  0:29                   ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16  0:39                   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  0:39                     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  0:53                     ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16  0:53                       ` Rik van Riel
2010-06-16  1:40                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  1:40                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  2:20                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  2:20                           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-16  5:11                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-16  5:11                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-16 10:51                             ` Jens Axboe
2010-06-16 10:51                               ` Jens Axboe
2010-06-16  5:07                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-16  5:07                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-16  5:06                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-16  5:06                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-17  0:25                   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-17  0:25                     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-17  6:16                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-17  6:16                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-17  6:23                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-17  6:23                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-14 15:10 ` [PATCH 0/12] Avoid overflowing of stack during page reclaim V2 Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-14 15:10   ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-06-15 11:45   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:45     ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15  0:08 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-15  0:08   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-06-15 11:49   ` Mel Gorman
2010-06-15 11:49     ` Mel Gorman

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