[RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
feedback.

Thanks to generocity of Survs.com, we have been gifted with premium
annual plan (last year Git User's Survey had more than 8000
responses!).  This plan will last till 26 October 2011, so I am
planning on having the survey for 1 month, in September:

  1 September -- 30 September 2011

One difference is that I would be sending announcements to git hosting
sites, to a few blogs, to git mailing lists, to git IRC channels, git
homepage and git wiki... but I will not be sending announcements to
individual projects and projects groups, perhaps with exception of
LKML.  Though if you want to, feel free.

I will be also making available separate channels, with separate URLs,
so that if one wants one might track all responses followed from
his/her site (e.g. some company wanting to see how their employees use
Git).  It would be available on request... though there would be only
one shortened "named" URL (tinyurl.com); might use goo.gl for separate
channels.

What questions (and with what proposed answers) should there be in
this year survey?  I am planning on having 30 questions or less total,
this time split into pages.

Below there is the content of the proposed survey:


= Git User's Survey 2011 (proposal) =

== About you ==

NOTES: 
^^^^^^
This section gives us a bit of demographical information about survey
responders.  Is it useful?

=== 01. What country do you live in? ===
        (Country of residence)
(free-form single line)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Perhaps a better solution would be a menu (drop-down list) of
countries, using list of current countries.  It would be more work to
create it (so it looks like it is out of question, unless Survs.com
implements it as template or something), but might reduce ambiguities
and unparsable responses... though there weren't that many.

This question originally read "What country are you from?"

=== 02. How old are you (in years)? ===
        (Single number)
(free-form single line)

=== 03. Does Git include code or documentation by you? ===
    (Are you a Git developer?)
(single choice)

* Yes
* No

NOTES:
^^^^^^
This is here to correlate other responses with Git developers.


== Getting started with Git ==

=== 04. Have you found Git easy to learn? ===
(single choice)

* Very easy
* Easy
* Reasonably easy
* Hard
* Very hard

=== 05. Have you found Git easy to use? ===
(single choice)

* Very easy
* Easy
* Reasonably easy
* Hard
* Very hard

NOTES:
^^^^^^ 
Those two questions, considered alone, doesn't tell us much.  If one use
git, then usually one does not think it is too hard to use (unless forced to
use git by external circumstances, like project he/she works on using git).
On the other hand those two questions together give us some mesaure of git
learning curve, telling us if people consider git easy to use but hard to
learn, or vice versa ;-)

The question is: should those questions stay, or should they go?


=== 06. Which Git version(s) are you using? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + pre 1.3
 + 1.3.x
 + 1.4.x
 + 1.5.x
 + 1.6.x
 + 1.7.x

 + 1.7.x-rcN version (release candidate)
 + minor (maintenance) release 1.x.y.z
 + 'master' branch of official git repository
 + 'next' branch of official git repository
 + 'pu' branch of official git repository
 + version from msysGit / Git for Windows fork repository
 + JGit implementation (e.g. via Eclipse plugin, EGit)

 + other, please specify

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can find git version by using `git --version` or `git version`.

"Minor release" is additional specification, so if you for example use
git version 1.7.4.5, please check both "1.7.x" and "minor release"; if
you use "v1.7.6-rc3" please check both "1.7.x" and "-rcN version"

NOTES:
^^^^^^
This question is here to stay.  Should it be extended somehow?

The "-rcN version" is new option.


=== 07. Rate your own proficiency with Git: ===
(single choice)

 * 1. novice
 * 2. casual, needs advice
 * 3. everyday use
 * 4. can offer advice
 * 5. know it very well

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can think of it as 1-5 numerical grade of your proficiency in Git.

NOTES:
^^^^^^
This question tell us penetration of announcements of Git User's Survey 2011;
did we get to all, or only to git gurus?  It is also useful for correlating
with other responses, for example to know which features are used by
novices, and which by gurus.

Note that the answers are here to stay because of "backwards
compatibility", i.e. to be able to easy compare with earlier surveys.


== How you use Git ==

=== 08. I use Git for (check all that apply): ===
(multiple choice, with other)

Note that those choices are neither orthogonal nor exclusive.  One
might want to check multiple answers even for a single repository.

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Answers to this question probe different direction.
This list is interspersed with comments about specific
(sub)sections.

 + work projects
 + unpaid projects

Notes:
^^^^^^
Those two are about using git at work vs using git on your own free time.
There are of course shades of gray, like using git for work project
unofficially (e.g.using git-svn as "fat" client for company's Subversion
repository), or employer allowing to work on non-work OSS project during
working hours.  But I'm not sure if they are worth adding.

 + proprietary projects
 + OSS development (also public domain, and published & unlicensed)
 + private (unpublished), in house

Notes:
^^^^^^
Those three are about licensing: proprietary / free (open) / unlicensed.
By 'OSS development' I mean here also free licenses for documentation and
documents, like GFDL or Creative Commons licenses (both copyleft and
permissive).

 + code (programming) and its documentation
 + data, documents (also e.g. static website)

Notes:
^^^^^^
This is about what kind of data do you store in git.  It is much
simplified compared to previous version, reduced to only two
responses: code and data.

 + sharing data or sync
 + managing configuration files
 + backup
 + backend for wiki, blog, or other web app
 + bugtracker / issue tracker
 + frontend to other SCM (e.g. git-svn)

Notes:
^^^^^^
This is about (ab)using git for other things than straighforward source
control management.  List of possible answers specified here should cover
most commonly encountered usages: should we add anything else here?

 + other (please specify)

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note that above choices are neither orthogonal nor exclusive.
You might want to check multiple answers even for a single repository.


=== 09. How do/did you obtain Git (install and/or upgrade)? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

Note that this question is multiple choices question because one can
install Git in different ways on different machines or on different
operating systems.

 + binary package
 + source package or script (automatic compiling)
 + source tarball (extract, make, make install)
 + pull from (main) repository
 + preinstalled / sysadmin job

 + other - please specify (if none of the above apply)

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Explanation: "binary package" covers pre-compiled binary (e.g.  from
rpm or deb binary packages); "source package" covers things like
deb-src and SRPMS / *.src.rpm; "source script" is meant to cover
installation in source-based distributions, like 'emerge' in Gentoo.

Automatic update (apt, yum, etc.) in most cases means binary package
install; unless one uses source-based distribution like Gentoo, CRUX,
or SourceMage, where automatic update means using source package (or
source script).

The option named "preinstalled / sysadmin job" means that either you
didn't need to install git because it was preinstalled (and you didn't
upgrade); or that you have to ask system administrator to have git
installed or upgraded.

Note that this question is multiple choices question because one can
install Git in different ways on different machines or on different
operating systems.

NOTES:
^^^^^^
What I didn't take into account in above explanation is operating
systems with packaging systems different that the one used by various
Linux distributions.

In short: if to have git installed you compile it, you use source
package or source tarball.  If the installation onvolves anything more
than 'make install' (or manual copying), then it is most probably
source package or script.

This for example means that "msysGit" installer is source package, and
"Git for Windows" is binary package, if I understand it correctly.


=== 10. On which operating system(s) do you use Git? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + GNU/Linux (includes MeeGo)
 + MacOS X (Darwin)
 + MS Windows/msysGit (MINGW)
 + MS Windows/Cygwin
 + some MS Windows (unknown)
 + FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.
 + Android
 + Solaris / OpenSolaris / Illuminati
 + other Unix

 + Other, please specify

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Unix-based operating system you can get the name of operation
system by running `uname` (or `uname -o`).

NOTES:
^^^^^^
How to detect if it is msysGit or Cygwin from within?  Perhaps we
should have just "MS Windows"...


=== 11. What Git interfaces, implementations and frontends do you use? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + JGit (Java implementation), e.g. via Eclipse plugin
 + NGit or Git# (C# implementation)
 + Dulwich (pure-Python implementation)
 + Git::PurePerl (Perl implementation)
 + git.js (JavaScript)
 + libgit2 bindings

 + git (core) commandline
 + Cogito (DEPRECATED)
 + Easy Git
 + Pyrite
 + I don't know, I only use (graphical) tools

 + pg aka Patchy Git (DEPRECATED)
 + StGIT
 + Guilt
 + TopGit

 + Zit

 + other (please specify)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
This version is going back to split from 2008 survey, rather than
having everything put together like in 2009 one.  There are, of
course, problems with both choices.  

The problem with split part is that people can have troubls with
distinguising between interfaces, implementations, frontends and tools
(although "I don't know ..."  answer should, I think, help here).  The
problem with having it everything together is that the list of
possible answers gets long and a bit unwieldy.

BTW are there any implementations and frontends that should be added
to the list above?


=== 12. What kind of Git tools do you use? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

If a tool is both history viewer, and commit tool, please choose the
option that corresponds to how do you use this tool.

 + editor/IDE VC integration (e.g. EGit (for Eclipse), TextMate bundle, magit (for GNU Emacs))
 + filemanager / shell extension (e.g. git-cheetah, TortoiseGit)
 + filesystem interface (e.g. gitfs, figfs)
 + graphical history viewer/browser (e.g. gitk)
 + graphical commit tool (e.g. git-gui)
 + graphical diff and/or merge tool (e.g. Kompare, Meld)
 + graphical blame or pickaxe tool (e.g. 'git gui blame')
 + tool to manage git repositories (e.g. Gitosis, Gitolite)
 + git-instaweb, or self-hosted web interface (e.g. gitweb, cgit)
 + self-hosted code review system (e.g. Gerrit)
 + patch management interface (e.g. StGit, Guilt)

 + my own scripts (for daily use)
 + my own scripts (for special tasks)

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here graphics diff tool means tools such as Kompare, and graphical
merge tool means tools such as Meld and KDiff3. Those answers include
graphical merge and diff tools used by programmers editors and IDEs.

"graphical history browser (any)" covers tools such as gitk, QGit,
Giggle, tig etc., but also built-in git commands such as "git log
--graph" and "git show-branch". If you use one of mentioned tools
*as* history browser, mark both a tool and "graphical history
browser (any)"; if you use some graphical history viewer not listed
here, please both mark this answer and specify it in the "other tool"
answer.

Similarly for other answers marked "(any)".

NOTES:
^^^^^^
As the number of tools increases (see InterfacesFrontendsAndTools page
on git wiki), having them listed all there gets a bit unwieldy.  On
the other hand it was a good way to find new tools that were not yet
included on IFaT page.  What do you think: should it be about tools,
or only about kind of tools used with git?  

The survey from 2011 did include "What Git GUIs (graphical user
interfaces) do you use?" question.

What do you think about this list?  IS there something that should not
be here?  Or perhaps there is something that should be added to this
list?


=== 13. Which git hosting site(s) do you use for your project(s)? ===
        Please check only hosting sites where you publish/push to (with git)
(multiple choice, with other)

 + [http://repo.or.cz repo.or.cz]
 + [http://github.com GitHub]
 + [http://gitorious.org Gitorious]
 + [http://code.google.com/hosting Google Code]
 + [http://www.indefero.net InDefero]

Notes:
^^^^^^
Those are generic git hosting sites (well, InDefero is now paysite),
each of them showcasing their own tool, all except GitHub open source
(it is Girocco for repo.or.cz; for the rest the tool is named the same
as the git hosting site).

Google Code is new; they support Git only recently.

 + [http://savannah.gnu.org Savannah]
 + [http://sourceforge.net SourceForge]
 + [http://developer.berlios.de BerliOS]

Notes:
^^^^^^
Generic software hosting sites, with git support.  Did I miss
something, should I include yet another site?

 + [http://www.assembla.com Assembla]
 + [http://codebasehq.com Codebase]
 + [http://unfuddle.com Unfuddle]
 - [http://codesion.com Codesion]
 - [http://gitfarm.appspot.com GitFarm]
 - [http://www.projectlocker.com ProjectLocker]
 - [http://thechaw.com The Chaw]

Notes:
^^^^^^
Those are commercial and/or less known git hosting sites, or software
hosting sites with git support.  I am not sure which ones of those
marked with '-' to include, and whether to include other sites from
GitHosting page on git wiki.  What do you think?

 + [http://git.kernel.org kernel.org]
 + [http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ freedesktop.org]

Notes:
^^^^^^
Those are 'git hosting site for related projects', but are special in
some sense.  Should I leave them there, or remove from this list?

 + [http://alioth.debian.org Alioth] (Debian)
 + [http://hosted.fedoraproject.org Fedora Hosted]

Notes:
^^^^^^
Those are distribution-specific.  Are there any sites that I missed?
Launchpad from Ubuntu does not count, as it is Bazaar hosting site,
not Git hosting site.

 +  company internal
 +  git hosting site for related projects (e.g. OLPC)
 +  generic site without git support
 +  self hosted

Notes:
^^^^^^
Are ther other kinds / typse of sites one can host project using git
on?  What are they?

 +  Other (please specify)

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can find those and other git hosting sites listed on GitHosting
page on Git Wiki.

NOTES:
^^^^^^
I think this question is here to stay.

The "company internal" answer was added in survey from 2010.


=== 14. How do you fetch/get changes from upstream repositories? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + git protocol        (e.g. git://git.example.com/repo.git)
 + ssh                 (e.g. ssh+git://git.example.com/repo.git,
                             git.example.com:/srv/scm/repo.git)
 + http                (e.g. http://git.example.com/repo.git)
 + rsync (DEPRECATED)  (e.g. rsync://git.example.com/repo.git)
 + filesystem          (e.g. /path/to/repo.git, file:///path/to/repo.git)
 + via git-bundle
 + foreign SCM (e.g. git-svn)

 + Other, please specify

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
This question asks about how do you get changes (updates) from
projects you follow into your local repository. It is not about how do
you get latest version of Git.

Fetching (or rather cloning) via bundle could mean that project
publishes ready for download bundles to reduce traffic and load on
server (HTTP download [of bundle] can be resumed, git-clone currently
cannot; one can also distribute bundle using P2P).

NOTES:
^^^^^^
What is new are examples of URLs / URIs for each protocol.

Did I miss anything?  Is this question interesting, and should it
stay, or should it be removed?


=== 15. How do you publish/propagate your changes? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + push via SSH
 + push via HTTP / HTTPS
 + push via git protocol
 + push (unknown)
 + pull request (+ any form of announcement / notification)
 + format-patch + email
 + format-patch + other (e.g. reviewboard, issue tracker or forum)
 + git bundle

 + git-svn (to Subversion repository)
 + git-p4 (to Perforce repository)
 + foreign SCM interface (other than mentioned above)

 + other - please specify

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Publishing via bundle could mean sending bundle via email, or posting
it on review board (or forum).

Instead of git-format-patch there can be utilized other way of
generating patch (e.g. git-show, git-diff, 'patch' view from gitweb,
etc.)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Should it stay, or should it be removed?  I guess it can be
interesting for git hosting sites...  Should we have separate answrs
for different kinds of push (ssh, "dumb" HTTP(S) with WebDAV, "smart"
HTTP - if it is possible, git:// protocol with push enabled)?

Splitting push into transports is new in this survey.


=== 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + localization of command-line messages (i18n)
 + git bundle (off-line transport)

 + eol conversion (crlf or eol)
 + gitattributes (any)
 + custom diff/merge driver
 + word diff
 + merge strategy options (e.g. -Xrenormalize)
 + textconv

 + submodules (subprojects)
 + subtree merge (optionally git-subtree)

 + partial (sparse) checkout, or assume-unchanged bit

 + separate worktree / core.worktree
 + multiple worktrees (e.g. git-new-worktree)
 + gitdir mechanism (.git file pointing to repository)

 + alternates mechanism (sharing object database)
 + stash (optionally "git stash --keep-index")
 + shallow clone (e.g. "git clone --depth=<n>")
 + detaching HEAD (e.g. "git checkout --detach")
 + commit message templates
 + interactive commit / per-hunk comitting / partial commit
 + interactive rebase (small scale history editing)
 + git-filter-branch or equivalent (large history rewriting)
 + bisect (optionally "git bisect run <script>")
 + tracking code movement with git-blame ("git blame -M" etc.)
 + committing with dirty tree (keeping some changes uncommitted)

 + non-default hooks (from contrib/hooks/ or other)
 + shell completion of commands
 + git-aware shell prompt
 + git aliases, shell aliases for git, or own git scripts

 + one-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git)
 + two-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git, from git to SCM)

 + git-cvsserver
 + git notes


 + Other, please specify

NOTES:
^^^^^^
The problem is come up not with exhaustive list of features: there are
too many of them to list.  The problem is coming up with list of
important and used enough often features.

So: what features should be included in this list?  What features
should be removed from above list of answers?


=== 17. Which of the following features would you like to see implemented in git? ===
(multiple choice)

 + better support for big files (large media)
 + resumable clone/fetch (and other remote operations)
 + GitTorrent Protocol, or git-mirror
 + lazy clone / on-demand fetching of object
 + support for tracking empty directories
 + environmental variables in config, 
   and expanding ~ and ~user in paths in config
 + better undo/abort/continue, and for more commands
 + '-n' like option for each command, which describes what would happen
 + side-by-side diffs and/or color-words diff in gitweb
 + admin and/or write features in gitweb
 + graphical history view in gitweb
 + GUI for rebase in git-gui
 + GUI for creating repository in git-gui
 + filename encoding (in repository vs in filesystem)
 + git push --create
 + wholesame directory rename detection
 + graphical merge tool integrated with git-gui
 + union checkouts (some files from one branch, some from other)
 + advisory locking / "this file is being edited"
 + "commands issued" (or "command equivalents") in git-gui / gitk
 + warn before/when rewriting published history
 + built-in gitjour/bananajour support
 + syntax highlighting in git-gui

 + other (describe below)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
What features should be mentioned besides those above?  What criteria
should we have for including features in this list?

=== 18. Describe what features would you like to have in Git, if it is
        not on the list above? ===
(free form, essay length)


== Other version control systems ==

=== 19. What other version control systems do you use beside Git? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

+ PVCS
+ SCCS
+ RCS

+ CVS
+ Subversion

+ Perforce
+ ClearCase
+ AccuRev SCM
+ StarTeam
+ Visual SourceSafe
+ Team Foundation Server
+ Visual Studio Team System / ALM
+ Rational Team Concert


+ Bazaar
+ Mercurial
+ Monotone
+ Darcs
+ SVK
+ Fossil
+ Veracity

+ BitKeeper
+ Code Co-op
+ TeamWare
+ Plastic SCM
+ Veracity

+ by hand / own scripts / custom
+ other, please specify

NOTES:
^^^^^^
What SCM should be removed, which should be added?


== What you think of Git ==

=== 19. Overall, how happy are you with Git? ===
(single choice)

 * unhappy
 * not so happy
 * happy
 * very happy
 * completely ecstatic

NOTES:
^^^^^^
I'm not sure if this question is at all useful.

There is also problem, that the current wording is considered biased
by some, but on the other hand changing wording of answers would make
it impossible to compare it to answers from previous surveys...


=== 20. In your opinion, which areas in Git need improvement? ===
        Please state your preference.
(matrix)

   Columns: don't need / a little / some / much
 + user-interface
 + documentation
 + performance
 + more features
 + tools (e.g. GUI)
 + localization (translation)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Are there any general areas that are missing from this list?
What are they?


== Changes in Git (since year ago, or since you started using it) ==

=== 21. Did you participate in previous Git User's Surveys? ===
(multiple choice)

 + in 2006
 + in 2007
 + in 2008
 + in 2009
 + in 2010
 + I don't remember, but I have participated in the past
 + none of the above (this is my first Git User's Survey)

NOTES:
^^^^^^ 
This might be quite useful comparing with previous surveys.


=== 22. How do you compare the current Git version with the version from one year ago? ===
(single choice)

 * better
 * no changes
 * worse

 * cannot say

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The version from approximately one year ago is 1.7.2 from 21-07-2011
(1.7.3 is from 18-09-2010).

Changes since 1.7.2 include:
* passing extra options to merge strategy via "-X" in more places
* -Xrename-threshold and -Xignore-space-at-eol
  for recursive merge strategy
* "exec" instruction support in interactive rebase
* system-wide attributes file /etc/gitattributes and
  `core.attributesfile`
* completion of commands for bash 4 and zsh
* [<tree>]:./<path> to use path relative to current directory
* ":/<path>" to use path relative to root of working tree hierarchy
* ":/" magic pathspec to work on entire working tree
* "git log -G"
* globbing pathspecs in "git log"
* git log --cherry and --cherry-mark
* "git notes merge" and --notes option to "git log" and friends
* extending "git shell" with custom set of commands
* beginnings of i18n/l10n and translations
* "git checkout --detach"
* "git cherry-pick" and "git revert" improvements
* "git merge" and "git rebase" now DWIMs to upstream
* "git merge -" to merge the previous branch
* `merge.ff` configuration variable
* selecting common timezone in gitweb with JavaScript
* updated (faster and more robust) content tags (labels) in gitweb
* GIT_PREFIX in "[alias] <name> = !process"
* git diff --dirstat=0 and --dirstat=lines
* and more...

NOTES:
^^^^^^
This question is mainly excuse for providing list of main changes
from the year ago.


== Documentation. Getting help. ==

=== 23. How useful have you found the following forms of Git documentation? ===
(matrix)

  Columns: never used / not useful / somewhat / useful
 + Git Wiki
 + Git Reference site
 + other on-line help
 + help distributed with git
 + printed books (or ebooks)

Description:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Git Wiki was to be found at http://git.wiki.kernel.org
* Git Reference site can be found at http://gitref.org
* on-line help includes, among others, Git Homepage (http://git-scm.com),
  "Git Community Book" (http://book.git-scm.com), "Pro Git" book
  (http://progit.org) and Git-related help pages on git hosting sites
* help distributed with git include manpages, manual, tutorials, HOWTO,
  release notes, technical documentation, contrib/examples/

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Should we split those answers further, e.g. separating on-line
tutorials and guides, from on-line tips etc.?


=== 24. What channel(s) do you use to request help about Git (if any)? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + git mailing list (git@vger.kernel.org)
 + "Git for Human Beings" Google Group
 + msysGit mailing list / Google Group
 + IRC (#git)
 + IRC (other git/SCM related, e.g. #github)
 + IRC (other than above)
 + request in blog post or on wiki
 + asking git guru/colleague/friend
 + project mailing list, or IRC, or forum
 + Twitter or other microblogging platform
 + instant messaging (IM) like XMPP/Jabber
 + StackOverflow or other StackExchange site

 + N/A (didn't request help about Git)

 + other (please specify)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Are there any main channels of requesting help that I have missed in
the above list of answers?  What are they, and why do you think they
are important enought to warrant inclusion in above list?


=== 25. Which communication channel(s) do you use? ===
        Do you read the mailing list, or watch IRC channel?
(multiple choice, with other)

 + git@vger.kernel.org (main)
 + Git for Human Beings (Google Group)
 + msysGit
 + #git IRC channel
 + #git-devel IRC channel
 + #github or #gitorious IRC channel
 + #revctrl IRC channel

 + other (please specify)

NOTES:
^^^^^^
Are there any communication channels that I have missed?  For example
is there a separate channel that JGit/EGit developers use?


== About this survey. Open forum. ==

=== 26. How did you hear about this Git User's Survey? ===
(single choice, with other)

 * git mailing list
 * git-related mailing list (e.g. msysGit, Git for Human Beings)
 * mailing list or forum of some project
 * #git IRC channel topic
 * announcement on IRC channel
 * git homepage
 * git wiki
 * git hosting site (or blog related to such site)
 * software-related web site
 * news or social news site (e.g. Digg, Reddit)
 * blog (or blog planet)
 * other kind of web site
 * Twitter or other microblogging platform

 * other - please specify

NOTES:
^^^^^^
This list would of course be updated to reflect the list of (planned)
announcement channels.

There of course will be announcement on Git Mailing List, and perhaps
also on msysGit list / Google Group, and on Git For Human Beings
Google Group (if it exists).  I'll announce it on #git, and ask op to
put short announcement in channel description, and I can announce it
on other IRC channels.  I would add announcement to main page of Git
Wiki, and as Git Homepage administrator to put announcement about Git
User's Survey.

I usually tried to contact administrators of git hosting sites,
including git.kernel.org, repo.or.cz, GitHub, Gitorious, Assembla,
Codebase and Unfuddle, asking them to put announcement about 
Git User's Survey either somewhere on the site, or in their blog 
(if there is any).  What git hosting sites it is worth to ask?


I would like to have announcement of Git User's Survey 2010 at
LWN.net, but this would need to be send at least two weeks in advance,
if I remember correctly.  Is it worth it?  What other news site should
I (or you) send announcement to?

If you can Digg / Reddit announcment on some site, please do.  I can
announce Git User's Survey 2-1- at Twitter, Identi.ca and Plurk, but I
don't have wide area of followers.  So please RT.

Should we contact some bloggers (besides asking Junio to put
announcement on his blog) to post an anouncement?  Which bloggers
would respond positively (perhaps Linus...)?

-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Phil Hord]

On 07/25/2011 04:33 PM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> How to detect if it is msysGit or Cygwin from within?  Perhaps we
> should have just "MS Windows"...

I think it's useful to know which build they're using, cygwin or msys. 
Hopefully it's not too confusing for them and they can answer correctly.

>
>
> === 11. What Git interfaces, implementations and frontends do you use? ===
> (multiple choice, with other)
>
>  + JGit (Java implementation), e.g. via Eclipse plugin
>  + NGit or Git# (C# implementation)
>  + Dulwich (pure-Python implementation)
>  + Git::PurePerl (Perl implementation)
>  + git.js (JavaScript)
>  + libgit2 bindings
>
>  + git (core) commandline
>  + Cogito (DEPRECATED)
>  + Easy Git
>  + Pyrite
>  + I don't know, I only use (graphical) tools
>
>  + pg aka Patchy Git (DEPRECATED)
>  + StGIT
>  + Guilt
>  + TopGit
>
>  + Zit
>
>  + other (please specify)

You can probably drop pg and Cogito now, yes?

Looking at the 2010 results, I would add these GUIs to the main list:
git-gui (core)
gitk (core)
gitX
gitg
git-cola
TortoiseGit
SmartGit
Git Extensions
Giggle

Is there room for Gerrit here, or maybe in one of the other questions?
Also, cgit and other web interfaces, I suppose.


> === 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
> (multiple choice, with other)
>
>  + localization of command-line messages (i18n)
>  + git bundle (off-line transport)
>
>  + eol conversion (crlf or eol)
>  + gitattributes (any)
>  + custom diff/merge driver
>  + word diff
>  + merge strategy options (e.g. -Xrenormalize)
>  + textconv
>
>  + submodules (subprojects)
>  + subtree merge (optionally git-subtree)
>
>  + partial (sparse) checkout, or assume-unchanged bit
>
>  + separate worktree / core.worktree
>  + multiple worktrees (e.g. git-new-worktree)
>  + gitdir mechanism (.git file pointing to repository)
>
>  + alternates mechanism (sharing object database)
>  + stash (optionally "git stash --keep-index")
>  + shallow clone (e.g. "git clone --depth=<n>")
>  + detaching HEAD (e.g. "git checkout --detach")
>  + commit message templates
>  + interactive commit / per-hunk comitting / partial commit
>  + interactive rebase (small scale history editing)
>  + git-filter-branch or equivalent (large history rewriting)
>  + bisect (optionally "git bisect run <script>")
>  + tracking code movement with git-blame ("git blame -M" etc.)
>  + committing with dirty tree (keeping some changes uncommitted)
>
>  + non-default hooks (from contrib/hooks/ or other)
>  + shell completion of commands
>  + git-aware shell prompt
>  + git aliases, shell aliases for git, or own git scripts
>
>  + one-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git)
>  + two-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git, from git to SCM)
>
>  + git-cvsserver
>  + git notes
>
>
>  + Other, please specify
>
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> The problem is come up not with exhaustive list of features: there are
> too many of them to list.  The problem is coming up with list of
> important and used enough often features.
>
> So: what features should be included in this list?  What features
> should be removed from above list of answers?

bridges (git-svn, hg-git, git-p4, etc.)
IDE integration (Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.)

Phil

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, Phil Hord wrote:
> On 07/25/2011 04:33 PM, Jakub Narebski wrote:

> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > How to detect if it is msysGit or Cygwin from within?  Perhaps we
> > should have just "MS Windows"...
> 
> I think it's useful to know which build they're using, cygwin or msys. 
> Hopefully it's not too confusing for them and they can answer correctly.

Well, there is this option for those confused:

 + some MS Windows (unknown or other)

I should probably add

 + operating system independent (JGit, Dulwich, git.js, ...)
 
> > === 11. What Git interfaces, implementations and frontends do you use? ===
> > (multiple choice, with other)
> >
> >  + JGit (Java implementation), e.g. via Eclipse plugin
> >  + NGit or Git# (C# implementation)
> >  + Dulwich (pure-Python implementation)
> >  + Git::PurePerl (Perl implementation)
> >  + git.js (JavaScript)
> >  + libgit2 bindings
> >
> >  + git (core) commandline
> >  + Cogito (DEPRECATED)
> >  + Easy Git
> >  + Pyrite
> >  + I don't know, I only use (graphical) tools
> >
> >  + pg aka Patchy Git (DEPRECATED)
> >  + StGIT
> >  + Guilt
> >  + TopGit
> >
> >  + Zit
> >
> >  + other (please specify)
> 
> You can probably drop pg and Cogito now, yes?

Yes, I think they can be dropped now.  They were important in previous
years to check if people are still using those deprecated porcelains,
but nowadays I don't think it is necessary.
 
> Looking at the 2010 results, I would add these GUIs to the main list:
> git-gui (core)
> gitk (core)
> gitX
> gitg
> git-cola
> TortoiseGit
> SmartGit
> Git Extensions
> Giggle

Hmmm... they can be considered "frontends", but there are too many GUIs
there to add them all.  They are in a way in "12. What kind of Git tools
do you use?"

Perhaps it would be good idea to add free-form (because of sheer number
of git tools) to write git tools etc. that one uses.
 
> Is there room for Gerrit here, or maybe in one of the other questions?
> Also, cgit and other web interfaces, I suppose.

They are in "12. What kind of Git tools do you use?".

> > === 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
> > (multiple choice, with other)
> >
> >  + localization of command-line messages (i18n)
> >  + git bundle (off-line transport)
[...]
> >  + one-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git)
> >  + two-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git, from git to SCM)
> >
> >  + git-cvsserver
> >  + git notes
> >
> >
> >  + Other, please specify
> >
> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > The problem is come up not with exhaustive list of features: there are
> > too many of them to list.  The problem is coming up with list of
> > important and used enough often features.
> >
> > So: what features should be included in this list?  What features
> > should be removed from above list of answers?
> 
> bridges (git-svn, hg-git, git-p4, etc.)

I think they are included in "two-way interaction with other SCMs",
but perhaps that should be made more clear.

> IDE integration (Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.)

This isn't strictly _git_ feature, and is in "12. What kind of Git tools
do you use?" anyway.


Thank you very much for your comments.
-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Phil Hord]

On 07/26/2011 06:37 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, Phil Hord wrote:
>
> bridges (git-svn, hg-git, git-p4, etc.)
> I think they are included in "two-way interaction with other SCMs",
> but perhaps that should be made more clear.

I think I just overlooked that one.

>> IDE integration (Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.)
> This isn't strictly _git_ feature, and is in "12. What kind of Git tools
> do you use?" anyway.
>
Yes, it's not a git feature.  But I'm curious how successful any IDE
integration is (as opposed to a GUI, for example).  I haven't seen any
that use enough of the power of git yet, so I have been disappointed.  I
suspect others have also, but I'm hopeful.

Phil

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Felipe Contreras]

2011/7/26 Phil Hord <hordp@cisco.com>:
> On 07/26/2011 06:37 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, Phil Hord wrote:
>>
>> bridges (git-svn, hg-git, git-p4, etc.)
>> I think they are included in "two-way interaction with other SCMs",
>> but perhaps that should be made more clear.
>
> I think I just overlooked that one.
>
>>> IDE integration (Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.)
>> This isn't strictly _git_ feature, and is in "12. What kind of Git tools
>> do you use?" anyway.
>>
> Yes, it's not a git feature.  But I'm curious how successful any IDE
> integration is (as opposed to a GUI, for example).  I haven't seen any
> that use enough of the power of git yet, so I have been disappointed.  I
> suspect others have also, but I'm hopeful.

I also think this is important, in my blog I've seen a bunch of people
mentioning that Git's integration with IDE's is not as good as
Mercurial. Putting this in the already existing list of tools would
not cover missing IDE's being integrated, I think this should go into
"20. In your opinion, which areas in Git need improvement?"

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Felipe Contreras]

2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:
> I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
> feedback.

> === 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
> (multiple choice, with other)
>
>  + localization of command-line messages (i18n)
>  + git bundle (off-line transport)
>
>  + eol conversion (crlf or eol)
>  + gitattributes (any)
>  + custom diff/merge driver
>  + word diff
>  + merge strategy options (e.g. -Xrenormalize)
>  + textconv
>
>  + submodules (subprojects)
>  + subtree merge (optionally git-subtree)
>
>  + partial (sparse) checkout, or assume-unchanged bit
>
>  + separate worktree / core.worktree
>  + multiple worktrees (e.g. git-new-worktree)
>  + gitdir mechanism (.git file pointing to repository)
>
>  + alternates mechanism (sharing object database)
>  + stash (optionally "git stash --keep-index")
>  + shallow clone (e.g. "git clone --depth=<n>")
>  + detaching HEAD (e.g. "git checkout --detach")
>  + commit message templates
>  + interactive commit / per-hunk comitting / partial commit
>  + interactive rebase (small scale history editing)
>  + git-filter-branch or equivalent (large history rewriting)
>  + bisect (optionally "git bisect run <script>")
>  + tracking code movement with git-blame ("git blame -M" etc.)
>  + committing with dirty tree (keeping some changes uncommitted)
>
>  + non-default hooks (from contrib/hooks/ or other)
>  + shell completion of commands
>  + git-aware shell prompt
>  + git aliases, shell aliases for git, or own git scripts
>
>  + one-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git)
>  + two-way interaction with other SCMs (from SCM to git, from git to SCM)
>
>  + git-cvsserver
>  + git notes
>
>
>  + Other, please specify
>
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> The problem is come up not with exhaustive list of features: there are
> too many of them to list.  The problem is coming up with list of
> important and used enough often features.
>
> So: what features should be included in this list?  What features
> should be removed from above list of answers?

*staging*! I have suggested this multiple times, it should be here this one!

- stage add / partial commit / interactive commit / per-hunk comitting
(e.g. git add -u/-i/-p)
+ stage / partial or interactive commits (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p, git
diff --cached)

> === 19. Overall, how happy are you with Git? ===
> (single choice)
>
>  * unhappy
>  * not so happy
>  * happy
>  * very happy
>  * completely ecstatic
>
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> I'm not sure if this question is at all useful.
>
> There is also problem, that the current wording is considered biased
> by some, but on the other hand changing wording of answers would make
> it impossible to compare it to answers from previous surveys...

What wording would you use?

> === 20. In your opinion, which areas in Git need improvement? ===
>        Please state your preference.
> (matrix)
>
>   Columns: don't need / a little / some / much
>  + user-interface
>  + documentation
>  + performance
>  + more features
>  + tools (e.g. GUI)
>  + localization (translation)
>
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> Are there any general areas that are missing from this list?
> What are they?

IDE integration, portability?

> == About this survey. Open forum. ==
>
> === 26. How did you hear about this Git User's Survey? ===
> (single choice, with other)
>
>  * git mailing list
>  * git-related mailing list (e.g. msysGit, Git for Human Beings)
>  * mailing list or forum of some project
>  * #git IRC channel topic
>  * announcement on IRC channel
>  * git homepage
>  * git wiki
>  * git hosting site (or blog related to such site)
>  * software-related web site
>  * news or social news site (e.g. Digg, Reddit)
>  * blog (or blog planet)
>  * other kind of web site
>  * Twitter or other microblogging platform
>
>  * other - please specify
>
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> This list would of course be updated to reflect the list of (planned)
> announcement channels.
>
> There of course will be announcement on Git Mailing List, and perhaps
> also on msysGit list / Google Group, and on Git For Human Beings
> Google Group (if it exists).  I'll announce it on #git, and ask op to
> put short announcement in channel description, and I can announce it
> on other IRC channels.  I would add announcement to main page of Git
> Wiki, and as Git Homepage administrator to put announcement about Git
> User's Survey.
>
> I usually tried to contact administrators of git hosting sites,
> including git.kernel.org, repo.or.cz, GitHub, Gitorious, Assembla,
> Codebase and Unfuddle, asking them to put announcement about
> Git User's Survey either somewhere on the site, or in their blog
> (if there is any).  What git hosting sites it is worth to ask?

Google+ (maybe facebook).

> I would like to have announcement of Git User's Survey 2010 at
> LWN.net, but this would need to be send at least two weeks in advance,
> if I remember correctly.  Is it worth it?  What other news site should
> I (or you) send announcement to?
>
> If you can Digg / Reddit announcment on some site, please do.  I can
> announce Git User's Survey 2-1- at Twitter, Identi.ca and Plurk, but I
> don't have wide area of followers.  So please RT.

I can post it on reddit :)

> Should we contact some bloggers (besides asking Junio to put
> announcement on his blog) to post an anouncement?  Which bloggers
> would respond positively (perhaps Linus...)?

I can post it on gitlog. It looks like there are now many people checking it.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2011, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> 2011/7/26 Phil Hord <hordp@cisco.com>:
>> On 07/26/2011 06:37 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, Phil Hord wrote:

>>>> IDE integration (Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.)
>>>
>>> This isn't strictly _git_ feature, and is in "12. What kind of Git tools
>>> do you use?" anyway.
>>>
>> Yes, it's not a git feature.  But I'm curious how successful any IDE
>> integration is (as opposed to a GUI, for example).  I haven't seen any
>> that use enough of the power of git yet, so I have been disappointed.  I
>> suspect others have also, but I'm hopeful.
> 
> I also think this is important, in my blog I've seen a bunch of people
> mentioning that Git's integration with IDE's is not as good as
> Mercurial. Putting this in the already existing list of tools would
> not cover missing IDE's being integrated, I think this should go into
> "20. In your opinion, which areas in Git need improvement?"

I think this is a good idea, though perhaps not in question about Git
(it is "which areas in _Git_"), but in a separate question about Git
tools.

 21. In your opinion, what Git tools are needed, and which need improvements?

Or something like that.
-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Heiko Voigt]

Hi,

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:33:01PM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> === 17. Which of the following features would you like to see implemented in git? ===
> (multiple choice)
> 
>  + better support for big files (large media)
>  + resumable clone/fetch (and other remote operations)
>  + GitTorrent Protocol, or git-mirror
>  + lazy clone / on-demand fetching of object
>  + support for tracking empty directories
>  + environmental variables in config, 
>    and expanding ~ and ~user in paths in config
>  + better undo/abort/continue, and for more commands
>  + '-n' like option for each command, which describes what would happen
>  + side-by-side diffs and/or color-words diff in gitweb
>  + admin and/or write features in gitweb
>  + graphical history view in gitweb
>  + GUI for rebase in git-gui
>  + GUI for creating repository in git-gui
>  + filename encoding (in repository vs in filesystem)
>  + git push --create
>  + wholesame directory rename detection
>  + graphical merge tool integrated with git-gui
>  + union checkouts (some files from one branch, some from other)
>  + advisory locking / "this file is being edited"
>  + "commands issued" (or "command equivalents") in git-gui / gitk
>  + warn before/when rewriting published history
>  + built-in gitjour/bananajour support
>  + syntax highlighting in git-gui
> 
>  + other (describe below)
> 
> NOTES:
> ^^^^^^
> What features should be mentioned besides those above?  What criteria
> should we have for including features in this list?

How about adding:

 + improved submodule support

 ?

Cheers Heiko

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Heiko Voigt wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:33:01PM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> > === 17. Which of the following features would you like to see implemented in git? ===
> > (multiple choice)
[...]
> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > What features should be mentioned besides those above?  What criteria
> > should we have for including features in this list?
> 
> How about adding:
> 
>  + improved submodule support
> 
>  ?

Added, thanks.

-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2011, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> 2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:
> > I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
> > feedback.
> 
> > === 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
> > (multiple choice, with other)
[...]
> >  + interactive commit / per-hunk comitting / partial commit
[...]
> >  + Other, please specify
> >
> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > The problem is come up not with exhaustive list of features: there are
> > too many of them to list.  The problem is coming up with list of
> > important and used enough often features.
> >
> > So: what features should be included in this list?  What features
> > should be removed from above list of answers?
> 
> *staging*! I have suggested this multiple times, it should be here this one!
> 
> - stage add / partial commit / interactive commit / per-hunk comitting
> (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p)
> + stage / partial or interactive commits (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p, git
> diff --cached)

Well, it is there... sort of.  I can certainly extend this answer. 
 
> > === 19. Overall, how happy are you with Git? ===
> > (single choice)
> >
> >  * unhappy
> >  * not so happy
> >  * happy
> >  * very happy
> >  * completely ecstatic
> >
> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > I'm not sure if this question is at all useful.
> >
> > There is also problem, that the current wording is considered biased
> > by some, but on the other hand changing wording of answers would make
> > it impossible to compare it to answers from previous surveys...
> 
> What wording would you use?

I think I'll keep what we used before.
 
> > === 20. In your opinion, which areas in Git need improvement? ===
> >        Please state your preference.
> > (matrix)
> >
> >   Columns: don't need / a little / some / much
> >  + user-interface
> >  + documentation
> >  + performance
> >  + more features
> >  + tools (e.g. GUI)
> >  + localization (translation)
> >
> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > Are there any general areas that are missing from this list?
> > What are they?
> 
> IDE integration, portability?

Portability, certainly.

IDE integration is a bit out of scope, as it is not strictly about Git
itself, but about Git "ecosystem".

As I wrote in separate email, I am thinking about adding a new question:

  21. In your opinion, what Git tools are needed, and which need improvements?
 
> > == About this survey. Open forum. ==
> >
> > === 26. How did you hear about this Git User's Survey? ===
> > (single choice, with other)
> >
> >  * git mailing list
> >  * git-related mailing list (e.g. msysGit, Git for Human Beings)
> >  * mailing list or forum of some project
> >  * #git IRC channel topic
> >  * announcement on IRC channel
> >  * git homepage
> >  * git wiki
> >  * git hosting site (or blog related to such site)
> >  * software-related web site
> >  * news or social news site (e.g. Digg, Reddit)
> >  * blog (or blog planet)
> >  * other kind of web site
> >  * Twitter or other microblogging platform
> >
> >  * other - please specify
> >
> > NOTES:
> > ^^^^^^
> > This list would of course be updated to reflect the list of (planned)
> > announcement channels.
> >
> > There of course will be announcement on Git Mailing List, and perhaps
> > also on msysGit list / Google Group, and on Git For Human Beings
> > Google Group (if it exists).  I'll announce it on #git, and ask op to
> > put short announcement in channel description, and I can announce it
> > on other IRC channels.  I would add announcement to main page of Git
> > Wiki, and as Git Homepage administrator to put announcement about Git
> > User's Survey.
> >
> > I usually tried to contact administrators of git hosting sites,
> > including git.kernel.org, repo.or.cz, GitHub, Gitorious, Assembla,
> > Codebase and Unfuddle, asking them to put announcement about
> > Git User's Survey either somewhere on the site, or in their blog
> > (if there is any).  What git hosting sites it is worth to ask?
> 
> Google+ (maybe facebook).

They are not git hosting sites ;-)

Anyway, on Google+ there are 36 people who have me in their circles,
I have 28 followers on Twitter.  Identi.ca, Plurk, Facebook - here
I don't have or almost don't have "friends"/"subscribers"/"fans".

That's not much, so please: forward / share.
 
> > I would like to have announcement of Git User's Survey 2010 at
> > LWN.net, but this would need to be send at least two weeks in advance,
> > if I remember correctly.  Is it worth it?  What other news site should
> > I (or you) send announcement to?
> >
> > If you can Digg / Reddit announcment on some site, please do.  I can
> > announce Git User's Survey 2-1- at Twitter, Identi.ca and Plurk, but I
> > don't have wide area of followers.  So please RT.
> 
> I can post it on reddit :)

Thanks in advance.
 
> > Should we contact some bloggers (besides asking Junio to put
> > announcement on his blog) to post an anouncement?  Which bloggers
> > would respond positively (perhaps Linus...)?
> 
> I can post it on gitlog. It looks like there are now many people checking it.

Thanks in advance, again.

-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jens Lehmann]

Am 25.07.2011 22:33, schrieb Jakub Narebski:
> I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
> feedback.

I'd appreciate to get some user feedback on submodules. What about this:


=== xx. What do you use submodules for? ===
(multiple choice, with other)

 + I don't use submodules at all

 + to import repositories maintained by others
 + for your own (or your organization's) code shared between different projects
 + to separate large and/or many files for performance reasons
 + to separate data which you don't want (or aren't allowed) to disclose

 + Other, please specify

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Jens Lehmann wrote:
> Am 25.07.2011 22:33, schrieb Jakub Narebski:

> > I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
> > feedback.
> 
> I'd appreciate to get some user feedback on submodules. What about this:
> 
> === xx. What do you use submodules for? ===
> (multiple choice, with other)
> 
>  + I don't use submodules at all
> 
>  + to import repositories maintained by others
>  + for your own (or your organization's) code shared between different projects
>  + to separate large and/or many files for performance reasons
>  + to separate data which you don't want (or aren't allowed) to disclose
> 
>  + Other, please specify

Thanks for your feedback.  I'll add it, either in the above form, or
slightly extended as

 === xx. What do you use submodules (or similar) for? ===
 (multiple choice, with other)
 
  + I don't use submodules at all

  + I use submodules
  + I use repo
  + I use git-subtree
  + I use gitslave

  + to import repositories maintained by others
  + for your own (or your organization's) code shared between different projects
  + to separate large and/or many files for performance reasons
  + to separate data which you don't want (or aren't allowed) to disclose

  + Other, please specify

-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:

> === 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
> (multiple choice, with other)
>
>  + localization of command-line messages (i18n)

It's probably better to move this to some "would you like i18n"
section. Nobody can use i18n at the moment, there's just a skeleton
implementation of it.

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On 8/3/11, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:
>
>> === 16. Which of the following Git features do you use? ===
>> (multiple choice, with other)
>>
>>  + localization of command-line messages (i18n)
>
> It's probably better to move this to some "would you like i18n"
> section. Nobody can use i18n at the moment, there's just a skeleton
> implementation of it.

O.K. I moved it to "17. Which of the following features would you
like to see implemented in git?"

Thanks for feedback
-- 
Jakub Narebski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[David Aguilar]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 05:58:32PM -0400, Phil Hord wrote:
> On 07/25/2011 04:33 PM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> > === 11. What Git interfaces, implementations and frontends do you use? ===
> > (multiple choice, with other)
> >
> >  + JGit (Java implementation), e.g. via Eclipse plugin
> >  + NGit or Git# (C# implementation)
> >  + Dulwich (pure-Python implementation)
> >  + Git::PurePerl (Perl implementation)
> >  + git.js (JavaScript)
> >  + libgit2 bindings
> >
> >  + git (core) commandline
> >  + Cogito (DEPRECATED)
> >  + Easy Git
> >  + Pyrite
> >  + I don't know, I only use (graphical) tools
> >
> >  + pg aka Patchy Git (DEPRECATED)
> >  + StGIT
> >  + Guilt
> >  + TopGit
> >
> >  + Zit
> >
> >  + other (please specify)
> 
> You can probably drop pg and Cogito now, yes?

I would drop Pyrite too.  The last activity was in 2008 and it
never went beyond pre-alpha.

> Looking at the 2010 results, I would add these GUIs to the main list:
> git-gui (core)
> gitk (core)
> gitX
> gitg
> git-cola
> TortoiseGit
> SmartGit
> Git Extensions
> Giggle

This is a better list ;-)
-- 
					David

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, David Aguilar wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 05:58:32PM -0400, Phil Hord wrote:
> > On 07/25/2011 04:33 PM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
> > > === 11. What Git interfaces, implementations and frontends do you use? ===
> > > (multiple choice, with other)
[...]
 
> > Looking at the 2010 results, I would add these GUIs to the main list:
> > git-gui (core)
> > gitk (core)
> > gitX
> > gitg
> > git-cola
> > TortoiseGit
> > SmartGit
> > Git Extensions
> > Giggle
> 
> This is a better list ;-)

Because of huge number of Git GUIs and tools instead of providing a long
list of tools to choose from, I went for free-form question:

  === 13. List git tools that you use (optional) ===
  (free form, essay)

  Description:
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Please include only frontends, interfaces and tools that have support
  for Git (so e.g. EGit applies, but Eclipse doesn't).

  Please either use comma separated list of tools, or put each tool in a
  separate line.  That would make analysis of answers simpler.  Thanks
  in advance.

Even though it is free-form question, it shouldn't be hard to analyse,
though it wouldn't be completely automatical.
-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Felipe Contreras]

2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:
> I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
> feedback.

Do you have an updated version somewhere?

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> 2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:

> > I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
> > feedback.
> 
> Do you have an updated version somewhere?

You can preview test version of survey at

  https://www.survs.com/survey/VEBXFGJ9B0

Note that all answers in this test channel will be deleted!

Up to date version was sent to git mailing list as

  [RFCv2] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/180643

and can be found on Git Wiki:

  http://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2011


P.S. If I remember correctly you wanted some question about "staging area"
terminology, or something like that.  Do you have concrete proposal for
question and list of answers?

I was thinking about

  xx. How do you include changes in new commit?
  (multiple choice, with other)

  [ ] commit -a
  [ ] commit <file>
  [ ] commit -i <file>
  [ ] git add
  [ ] git stage
  [ ] git update-index
  [ ] incremental add / commit
  [ ] other, please specify __________________________

(it is not in current version of survey, but can be added before it starts
for real)... though it is only small subset of "stage" vs "the index"
terminology.  If you have something better...

-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[David Aguilar]

On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:00 AM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, David Aguilar wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 05:58:32PM -0400, Phil Hord wrote:
>>> On 07/25/2011 04:33 PM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
>>>> === 11. What Git interfaces, implementations and frontends do you use? ===
>>>> (multiple choice, with other)
> [...]
> 
>>> Looking at the 2010 results, I would add these GUIs to the main list:
>>> git-gui (core)
>>> gitk (core)
>>> gitX
>>> gitg
>>> git-cola
>>> TortoiseGit
>>> SmartGit
>>> Git Extensions
>>> Giggle
>> 
>> This is a better list ;-)
> 
> Because of huge number of Git GUIs and tools instead of providing a long
> list of tools to choose from, I went for free-form question:

okay, that makes sense.

nevertheless, we are advertising cogito (deprecated) and pyrite (never made it past pre-alpha in 2008).  why? these should be removed. if you need a replacement, might I suggest git-cola? ;-)I think removing (and thus not advertising) dead tools is more important than coming up with replacements. this is on page 4/10 on the survs.com link you sent elsewhere in this thread.


>  === 13. List git tools that you use (optional) ===
>  (free form, essay)
> 
>  Description:
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Please include only frontends, interfaces and tools that have support
>  for Git (so e.g. EGit applies, but Eclipse doesn't).
> 
>  Please either use comma separated list of tools, or put each tool in a
>  separate line.  That would make analysis of answers simpler.  Thanks
>  in advance.
> 
> Even though it is free-form question, it shouldn't be hard to analyse,
> though it wouldn't be completely automatical.
> -- 
> Jakub Narebski
> Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Felipe Contreras]

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> 2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:
>
>> > I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
>> > feedback.
>>
>> Do you have an updated version somewhere?
>
> You can preview test version of survey at
>
>  https://www.survs.com/survey/VEBXFGJ9B0
>
> Note that all answers in this test channel will be deleted!
>
> Up to date version was sent to git mailing list as
>
>  [RFCv2] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"
>  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/180643
>
> and can be found on Git Wiki:
>
>  http://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2011
>
>
> P.S. If I remember correctly you wanted some question about "staging area"
> terminology, or something like that.  Do you have concrete proposal for
> question and list of answers?
>
> I was thinking about
>
>  xx. How do you include changes in new commit?
>  (multiple choice, with other)
>
>  [ ] commit -a
>  [ ] commit <file>
>  [ ] commit -i <file>
>  [ ] git add
>  [ ] git stage
>  [ ] git update-index
>  [ ] incremental add / commit
>  [ ] other, please specify __________________________
>
> (it is not in current version of survey, but can be added before it starts
> for real)... though it is only small subset of "stage" vs "the index"
> terminology.  If you have something better...

I am just looking at this. You should send regular updates to the
survey, right after the initial batch of feedback, not one day before.

First of all, "changes in new commit" doesn't sound right, should be
either "a new commit", or "new commits".

Second, you should have added what I said:

+ stage / partial or interactive commits (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p, git
diff --cached)

Nowhere in the survey does it as for 'git diff --cached' or anything
that acts on the stage.

So now we have your question, plus this:
 + interactive commit / per-hunk comitting / partial commit

But that's not good enough.

People might think 'git add -u/-i/-p' is not related to a commit.
Also, we still don't know if people use --cached --keep-index, or any
of those. If instead of 'git add/stage' you had 'git add/stage
-u/-i/-p' That would have been better, and no, incremental add /commit
doesn't really fit, for example, I usually do 'git add -p; git
commit', so it's not really incremental.

I think we should stop beating around the bushes, and ask what we want to ask:

 == Do you use the stage/cache/index? ==

If you don't want to ask that question directly, or you think people
might not understand the question, we should be listing all the
commands that use the stage, and make sure they are handled in the
survey:

 X git diff --cached
 X git grep --cached
 X git rm --cached
 X git stash apply/pop --index
 X git stash (save) --[no-]keep-index
 X git add <tracked_file>
 X git add -p
 X git add -i
 X git add -u
 X git commit -p
 X git commit --interactive (not the same as git commit -i)

It turns out none of them are explicitly asked in the survey. In order
to do that, this is the only option I see:

 + interactive commits (e.g. git commit -p/--interactive)
 + stage (e.g. git add -p/-i/-u, git add <tracked_file))
 + stage commands (e.g. git * --cached, git stash * --index/--[no-]keep-index)

Or at the very least what I suggested initially:
 + stage / partial or interactive commits (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p, git
* --cached)

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narebski]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>>> 2011/7/25 Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com>:

>>>> I am planning doing annual Git User's Survey, and I'd like to ask for
>>>> feedback.
[...]
>> P.S. If I remember correctly you wanted some question about "staging area"
>> terminology, or something like that.  Do you have concrete proposal for
>> question and list of answers?
>>
>> I was thinking about
>>
>>  xx. How do you include changes in new commit?
>>  (multiple choice, with other)
>>
>>  [ ] commit -a
>>  [ ] commit <file>
>>  [ ] commit -i <file>
>>  [ ] git add
>>  [ ] git stage
>>  [ ] git update-index
>>  [ ] incremental add / commit
>>  [ ] other, please specify __________________________
>>
>> (it is not in current version of survey, but can be added before it starts
>> for real)... though it is only small subset of "stage" vs "the index"
>> terminology.  If you have something better...
> 
> I am just looking at this. You should send regular updates to the
> survey, right after the initial batch of feedback, not one day before.

I'm very sorry about that.

My excuse is that I had less time during the summer holidays than
I thought, and there were time when I was not able to work on Git or
Git User's Survey.  Additionally the premium account plan, which we have
for free thanks to generosity of Survs.com admins, ends 26 October 2011.
This means that postponing Git User's Survey to gather feedback and
start it later was out of question.
 
Also somehow I have missed your comments (or not implemented them
immediately because they lacked concrete proposal), and found them
only when sending last call request for feedback, just before starting
survey.

> First of all, "changes in new commit" doesn't sound right, should be
> either "a new commit", or "new commits".

Fixed (to "a new commit"), thanks.
 
> Second, you should have added what I said:
> 
> + stage / partial or interactive commits (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p, git
> diff --cached)
> 
> Nowhere in the survey does it as for 'git diff --cached' or anything
> that acts on the stage.

I couldn't come with a good question that would ask about that, and
I didn't want to create too long survey, with too many questions.
 
> So now we have your question, plus this:
>  + interactive commit / per-hunk comitting / partial commit
> 
> But that's not good enough.

Right.
 
> People might think 'git add -u/-i/-p' is not related to a commit.
> Also, we still don't know if people use --cached --keep-index, or any
> of those. If instead of 'git add/stage' you had 'git add/stage
> -u/-i/-p' That would have been better, and no, incremental add /commit
> doesn't really fit, for example, I usually do 'git add -p; git
> commit', so it's not really incremental.

I explicitly asked separately about _incremental_ and _interactive_...
but not in the new question.  I'm sorry about that.  Hopefully at
least some people will include "partial / interactive" in 'other'.
 
> I think we should stop beating around the bushes, and ask what we want to ask:
> 
>  == Do you use the stage/cache/index? ==

Perhaps "Do you use the stage/cache/index explicitly, and how?".
 
> If you don't want to ask that question directly, or you think people
> might not understand the question, we should be listing all the
> commands that use the stage, and make sure they are handled in the
> survey:
> 
>  X git diff --cached
>  X git grep --cached
>  X git rm --cached
>  X git stash apply/pop --index
>  X git stash (save) --[no-]keep-index
>  X git add <tracked_file>
>  X git add -p
>  X git add -i
>  X git add -u
>  X git commit -p
>  X git commit --interactive (not the same as git commit -i)

If there will be "Git User's Survey 2012", let's add this question
(replacing my "How do you include changes in new commit?").

It is a pity that Git Wiki doesn't work yet; I'd rather put this
proposal in Talk page for GitSurvey2011, or in GitSurvey2012
for next year survey proposal (if there would be one).
 
> It turns out none of them are explicitly asked in the survey. In order
> to do that, this is the only option I see:
> 
>  + interactive commits (e.g. git commit -p/--interactive)
>  + stage (e.g. git add -p/-i/-u, git add <tracked_file))
>  + stage commands (e.g. git * --cached, git stash * --index/--[no-]keep-index)
> 
> Or at the very least what I suggested initially:
>  + stage / partial or interactive commits (e.g. git add -u/-i/-p, git
> * --cached)

P.S. Would you be interested in running the next survey?

-- 
Jakub Narebski
Poland

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Felipe Contreras]

Hi,

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:

> P.S. Would you be interested in running the next survey?

I haven't seen any news regarding the 2012 survey. I'm interested in
running the survey this time, but I would like to know what that
entails :)

I think the surveys should continue.

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Felipe Contreras
<felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> P.S. Would you be interested in running the next survey?
>
> I haven't seen any news regarding the 2012 survey. I'm interested in
> running the survey this time, but I would like to know what that
> entails :)
>
> I think the surveys should continue.

I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones)
"Git User's Survey 2012" on Survs.com.  The test channel is

  https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4

Note that all answers in this channel would be deleted.


I was thinking about running this survey for about three weeks, from
24 September to 14 October 2012.  The current premium unlimited plan,
a gift from Survs.com admins, is valid till 26 October.  I don't know if it
would be prolonged; it usually was.

As to what is involved in running survey: if we want and would be able to
use Survs.com, one should register there, and I can add them to "git"
account as a member with admin rights.

-- 
Jakub Narebski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Junio C Hamano]

Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:

> I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones)
> "Git User's Survey 2012" on Survs.com.  The test channel is
>
>   https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4
>
> Note that all answers in this channel would be deleted.
>
> I was thinking about running this survey for about three weeks, from
> 24 September to 14 October 2012.  The current premium unlimited plan,
> a gift from Survs.com admins, is valid till 26 October.  I don't know if it
> would be prolonged; it usually was.
>
> As to what is involved in running survey: if we want and would be able to
> use Survs.com, one should register there, and I can add them to "git"
> account as a member with admin rights.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling again this year.

A few comments.

  #5. Given that 1.8.0 will ship on Oct 21st, this may want to
      include 1.8.0 as well.

  #7. Stop "backup", and leave that to 'other (please specify)'.
      Also, "Frontend to other SCM" feels somewhat out of place.  It
      would be interesting to see how "work vs personal" and "native
      vs foreign" are correlated, for example, but this format does
      not let you measure it.

 #12. I am not sure why EGit applies and Eclipse doesn't.  Is it
      like saying "vc.el applies but Emacs doesn't" (the former is
      the interface, the latter is 'the other side' the interface
      connects git to")?  If so it makes sense to me, but if EGit is
      the only interface used to connect to Eclipse, perhaps it does
      not help people who answer these questions to say this.

 #13. This list is intelligible, at least to me.  "git add" but not
      "git rm"?  What is "incremental add / commit"?  "git add -p"?
      Is it worth asking about "update-index"?

      It may be simpler to condense the questionaire down to the
      following three questions:

      - Do you use command line tool to build commit?
        [Always/Often/Sometimes/Never]

      - When you do, do you build the next commit incrementally with
        "git add [-p]" and run "git commit" without the "-a" option?
        [Always/Often/Sometimes/Never]

      - What do you use if you do not commit with the command line?
        GUI? IDE/Editor? FileManager? Web?

 #21. (nit) Isn't ProGit one of the "printed books (or ebooks)"?

I think the questions are designed to gauge the individual users
(proficiency, background, etc.), but I think it would be interesting
to see what kind of projects they are using Git for, but not in
vague terms like #7 does.

Even within "work projects - code", it would be enlightening to see
a bit more details, e.g. Are they building phone app?  Controlling
nuclear reactors?  Bioinformatics?  How big is their team?  How is
the project structured, e.g. a central repository where everybody
pushes into?  Workers push to submission branches that are reviewed,
approved and merged by the official committers?  Use of continuous
integration?  Issue tracker integration?

      

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:
> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones)
>> "Git User's Survey 2012" on Survs.com.  The test channel is
>>
>>   https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4
>>
>> Note that all answers in this channel would be deleted.
>>
>> I was thinking about running this survey for about three weeks, from
>> 24 September to 14 October 2012.  The current premium unlimited plan,
>> a gift from Survs.com admins, is valid till 26 October.  I don't know if it
>> would be prolonged; it usually was.
>>
>> As to what is involved in running survey: if we want and would be able to
>> use Survs.com, one should register there, and I can add them to "git"
>> account as a member with admin rights.
>
> Thanks for getting the ball rolling again this year.
>
> A few comments.
>
>   #5. Given that 1.8.0 will ship on Oct 21st, this may want to
>       include 1.8.0 as well.

Thanks for an information.
Done.

>   #7. Stop "backup", and leave that to 'other (please specify)'.
>       Also, "Frontend to other SCM" feels somewhat out of place.  It
>       would be interesting to see how "work vs personal" and "native
>       vs foreign" are correlated, for example, but this format does
>       not let you measure it.

I have split this question in two:

#7. What kind of projects etc. do you use Git for?
#8. I use Git for (check all that apply):

where the first question is about work..private direction, and the second
one is now reducted to code, documentation, etc.

But now that I think of it, perhaps it might be interesting to put those
in the matrix form, where one direction would be work vs personal,
other code vs foreign.

>  #12. I am not sure why EGit applies and Eclipse doesn't.  Is it
>       like saying "vc.el applies but Emacs doesn't" (the former is
>       the interface, the latter is 'the other side' the interface
>       connects git to")?  If so it makes sense to me, but if EGit is
>       the only interface used to connect to Eclipse, perhaps it does
>       not help people who answer these questions to say this.

I have reworked / rewritten the description to this question.
What I wanted here is to not add editor/IDE which is used
only to edit files and create commit messages via core.editor,
but without any Git integration.

>  #13. This list is intelligible, at least to me.  "git add" but not
>       "git rm"?  What is "incremental add / commit"?  "git add -p"?
>       Is it worth asking about "update-index"?
>
>       It may be simpler to condense the questionaire down to the
>       following three questions:
>
>       - Do you use command line tool to build commit?
>         [Always/Often/Sometimes/Never]
>
>       - When you do, do you build the next commit incrementally with
>         "git add [-p]" and run "git commit" without the "-a" option?
>         [Always/Often/Sometimes/Never]
>
>       - What do you use if you do not commit with the command line?
>         GUI? IDE/Editor? FileManager? Web?

I have split this question in two:


#14. What tool do you use to create new commits?
#15. How do you create new commits?

The latter is about incremental commits etc.

I wonder if it would not make this survey too complicated to add
the tool vs how (i.e. rows from 14th rows, columns from 15th rows)
to complete 3rd dimension ;-)

>  #21. (nit) Isn't ProGit one of the "printed books (or ebooks)"?

I can add "other than above".

> I think the questions are designed to gauge the individual users
> (proficiency, background, etc.), but I think it would be interesting
> to see what kind of projects they are using Git for, but not in
> vague terms like #7 does.
>
> Even within "work projects - code", it would be enlightening to see
> a bit more details, e.g. Are they building phone app?  Controlling
> nuclear reactors?  Bioinformatics?

This is something hard to ask for... well, we could always use
free form question, but then the problem is with analyzing the
data, even if we don't get 10k answers like in last year.

>  How big is their team?

Do any of you have a proposal for sensible ranges? For example

 - 1
 - a few
 - several
 - 10-50
 - 50-150
 - more than 150

I think multiple choice would fit better here, with troubles analysing
and explaining how to format free-form, and people participating
in different projects.

> How is
> the project structured, e.g. a central repository where everybody
> pushes into?  Workers push to submission branches that are reviewed,
> approved and merged by the official committers?  Use of continuous
> integration?  Issue tracker integration?

Hmm... the question about workflows used could be interesting.
BTW. I have added to :kinds of tools" questions, e.g. about CI,
so this topic is more covered... I think.

-- 
Jakub Narębski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Michael J Gruber]

Jakub Narębski venit, vidit, dixit 23.09.2012 00:45:
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Felipe Contreras
> <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> P.S. Would you be interested in running the next survey?
>>
>> I haven't seen any news regarding the 2012 survey. I'm interested in
>> running the survey this time, but I would like to know what that
>> entails :)
>>
>> I think the surveys should continue.
> 
> I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones)
> "Git User's Survey 2012" on Survs.com.  The test channel is
> 
>   https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4
> 
> Note that all answers in this channel would be deleted.
> 
> 
> I was thinking about running this survey for about three weeks, from
> 24 September to 14 October 2012.  The current premium unlimited plan,
> a gift from Survs.com admins, is valid till 26 October.  I don't know if it
> would be prolonged; it usually was.
> 
> As to what is involved in running survey: if we want and would be able to
> use Survs.com, one should register there, and I can add them to "git"
> account as a member with admin rights.
> 

Other version control systems:
I think the list needs to be sorted alphabetically, it's really long.
(You could also reduce and offer a text field "other.)

Resources:
I wouldn't put git-scm.com and the pro-git book into the same item.
git-scm.com was supposed to be "the" git community website (and also
"the" reference on git), and the fact that it looks like a pro-git book
sales platform is a different matter.

An interesting question would be: "What is the first source you consider
Git?", or even: "What is the Git homepage?"... Really, getting input on
what "the Git homepage" should be like would be nice, but not comparable
to previous surveys.

In any case, thanks for taking care of the survey again!

Michael

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Michael J Gruber
<git@drmicha.warpmail.net> wrote:
[...]
> Other version control systems:
> I think the list needs to be sorted alphabetically, it's really long.

I have split this list in two: other centralized VCS and other distributed
VCS; both have "other" field.

> (You could also reduce and offer a text field "other.)

I tried to include all important VCS.  There is always problem with
analyzing responses from "other" field...

> Resources:
> I wouldn't put git-scm.com and the pro-git book into the same item.
> git-scm.com was supposed to be "the" git community website (and also
> "the" reference on git), and the fact that it looks like a pro-git book
> sales platform is a different matter.

Good catch. Originally there was "Git Community Book" on Git Homepage,
and "Pro Git" had its own homepage; now they are folded together.

I have slightly rewritten the description to account for this.

>
> An interesting question would be: "What is the first source you consider
> Git?", or even: "What is the Git homepage?"... Really, getting input on
> what "the Git homepage" should be like would be nice, but not comparable
> to previous surveys.

As you can see this year survey is [almost] bereft of essay free-form
questions.  It is because of difficulties and time needed to analyze such
responses. So I don't think such question will be included this year.

I think it is better discussion for git mailing list or something...

-- 
Jakub Narebski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Matthieu Moy]

Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:

> I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones)
> "Git User's Survey 2012" on Survs.com.  The test channel is
>
>   https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4

If it's still time, it would be nice to add a question on the kind of
workflow people use. E.g.

Which workflow do you use? (never / rarely / often / always)

Centralized workflow (everyone pushes and pulls to the same shared
repository).

One-repository per developer (people push to their own public
repository, and pull from other user's public repository)


(and perhaps intermediates).

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones)
>> "Git User's Survey 2012" on Survs.com.  The test channel is
>>
>>   https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4
>
> If it's still time, it would be nice to add a question on the kind of
> workflow people use. E.g.
>
> Which workflow do you use? (never / rarely / often / always)
>
> Centralized workflow (everyone pushes and pulls to the same shared
> repository).
>
> One-repository per developer (people push to their own public
> repository, and pull from other user's public repository)

You were not the only one to ask for question about workflows
used; Junio also asked for something similar.

I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question:

#19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you
participate?
[ ] single developer, only private repository (no interaction)
[ ] centralized workflow (push to common repository)
[ ] branched centralized (push to different branches in common repository)
[ ] peer-to-peer workflow (all repositories roughly equal)
[ ] integration-manager workflow (maintainer pulls/applies patches to
"blessed" repository))
[ ] dictator and lieutenants workflow (hierarchical workflow)
[ ] using collaborative code review tool, e.g. Gerrit
[ ] other workflow, please explai

I was also thinking about adding merge vs rebase question, but it
is direction orthogonal to above, so maybe as separate question...

-- 
Jakub Narebski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Matthieu Moy]

Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:

> I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question:
>
> #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you
> participate?

If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly
used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish
between "X% people use workflow W all the time", and "X% people use
workflow W from time to time".

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question:
>>
>> #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you
>> participate?
>
> If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly
> used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish
> between "X% people use workflow W all the time", and "X% people use
> workflow W from time to time".

The problem is that those workflows are used by _projects_ not _people_,
so never/rarely/sometimes/often would be IMHO inappropriate.

Besides matrix type question cannot have (on Survs.com) "other, explain"...
-- 
Jakub Narebski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Matthieu Moy]

Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Matthieu Moy
> <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
>> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question:
>>>
>>> #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you
>>> participate?
>>
>> If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly
>> used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish
>> between "X% people use workflow W all the time", and "X% people use
>> workflow W from time to time".
>
> The problem is that those workflows are used by _projects_ not _people_,

Yes, but people are usually involved in multiple projects. Someone
involved in 10 different distributed projects and sometimes contributing
to 1 centralized would count 1 for each.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Matthieu Moy
>> <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
>>> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question:
>>>>
>>>> #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you
>>>> participate?
>>>
>>> If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly
>>> used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish
>>> between "X% people use workflow W all the time", and "X% people use
>>> workflow W from time to time".
>>
>> The problem is that those workflows are used by _projects_ not _people_,
>
> Yes, but people are usually involved in multiple projects. Someone
> involved in 10 different distributed projects and sometimes contributing
> to 1 centralized would count 1 for each.
,
True.  So responses wouldn't tell us the full story.

But first, never/rarely/sometimes/often/always doesn't fit IMHO here.

Second, the situation is more complicated: one can be actively involved
in 1 distributed project with 200+ contributors via Gerrit, often contribute
to 1 centralized project with 15-25 contributors, and rarely interact with
distributed project using "blessed" repository workflow where number
of contributors range from few to few hundred.  Too complicated for
survey IMHO.

Third, no other in matrix form.
-- 
Jakub Narebski

Re: [RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Matthieu Moy]

Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:

> Second, the situation is more complicated: one can be actively involved
> in 1 distributed project with 200+ contributors via Gerrit, often contribute
> to 1 centralized project with 15-25 contributors, and rarely interact with
> distributed project using "blessed" repository workflow where number
> of contributors range from few to few hundred.

We're doing a user survey, so if a project has 200 contributors, it will
statistically have 10 times more survey participants than a 20
contributors project. Sure, statistics don't always work, but if we
don't trust statistics, we shouldn't do a survey.

> Third, no other in matrix form.

Well, forcing the user to chose between existing options is not
necessarily bad IMHO. It at least avoids free-form answers like "I'm
doing almost exactly option b) but I don't call it this way so I didn't
tick b)".

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

[RFC] Questions for "Git User's Survey 2011"

[Jakub Narębski]

[I'm sorry for breaking the chain, but I have accidentally hit Reply,
instead of Reply To All, and missed sending reply to git mailing list]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Jakub Narębski <jnareb@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Second, the situation is more complicated: one can be actively involved
>> in 1 distributed project with 200+ contributors via Gerrit, often contribute
>> to 1 centralized project with 15-25 contributors, and rarely interact with
>> distributed project using "blessed" repository workflow where number
>> of contributors range from few to few hundred.
>
> We're doing a user survey, so if a project has 200 contributors, it will
> statistically have 10 times more survey participants than a 20
> contributors project. Sure, statistics don't always work, but if we
> don't trust statistics, we shouldn't do a survey.

I always worry if the set of survey participants is representative...

>> Third, no other in matrix form.
>
> Well, forcing the user to chose between existing options is not
> necessarily bad IMHO. It at least avoids free-form answers like "I'm
> doing almost exactly option b) but I don't call it this way so I didn't
> tick b)".

There is another issue: there are many, many questions which
are currently in multiple answers form (e.g. transports, or tools),
some of them with "other, please specify", which are in the same
boat wrt. precision / accuracy as discussed "workflow" question.

So, NAK for this year survey, we can think about and discuss it
for the next one (if there would be interest in having one).
--
Jakub Narebski


-- 
Jakub Narebski