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From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
To: Shaohua Li <shli@fb.com>
Cc: linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Kernel-team@fb.com, axboe@fb.com, vgoyal@redhat.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH V4 10/15] blk-throttle: add a simple idle detection
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 17:21:48 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161128222148.GB12948@htj.duckdns.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20161124011517.GC4724@ksenks-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>

Hello, Shaohua.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 05:15:18PM -0800, Shaohua Li wrote:
> > Hmm... I'm not sure thinktime is the best measure here.  Think time is
> > used by cfq mainly to tell the likely future behavior of a workload so
> > that cfq can take speculative actions on the prediction.  However,
> > given that the implemented high limit behavior tries to provide a
> > certain level of latency target, using the predictive thinktime to
> > regulate behavior might lead to too unpredictable behaviors.
> 
> Latency just reflects one side of the IO. Latency and think time haven't any
> relationship. For example, a cgroup dispatching 1 IO per second can still have
> high latency. If we only take latency account, we will think the cgroup is
> busy, which is not justified.

Yes, the two are indepndent metrics; however, whether a cgroup is
considered idle or not affects whether blk-throttle will adhere to the
latency target or not.  Thinktime is a magic number which can be good
but whose behavior can be very difficult to predict from outside the
black box.  What I was trying to say was that putting in thinktime
here can greatly weaken the configured latency target in unobvious
ways.

> > Moreover, I don't see why we need to bother with predictions anyway.
> > cfq needed it but I don't think that's the case for blk-throtl.  It
> > can just provide idle threshold where a cgroup which hasn't issued an
> > IO over that threshold is considered idle.  That'd be a lot easier to
> > understand and configure from userland while providing a good enough
> > mechanism to prevent idle cgroups from clamping down utilization for
> > too long.
> 
> We could do this, but it will only work for very idle workload, eg, the
> workload is completely idle. If workload dispatches IO sporadically, this will
> likely not work. The average think time is more precise for predication.

But we can increase sharing by upping the target latency.  That should
be the main knob - if low, the user wants stricter service guarantee
at the cost of lower overall utilization; if high, the workload can
deal with higher latency and the system can achieve higher overall
utilization.  I think the idle detection should be an extra mechanism
which can be used to ignore cgroup-disk combinations which are staying
idle for a long time.

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

  reply	other threads:[~2016-11-28 22:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-11-14 22:22 [PATCH V4 00/15] blk-throttle: add .high limit Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 01/15] blk-throttle: prepare support multiple limits Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 02/15] blk-throttle: add .high interface Shaohua Li
2016-11-22 20:02   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-22 23:08     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-23 21:11       ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 03/15] blk-throttle: configure bps/iops limit for cgroup in high limit Shaohua Li
2016-11-22 20:16   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-22 23:11     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 04/15] blk-throttle: add upgrade logic for LIMIT_HIGH state Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 05/15] blk-throttle: add downgrade logic Shaohua Li
2016-11-22 21:21   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-22 21:42     ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-22 23:38       ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 06/15] blk-throttle: make sure expire time isn't too big Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 07/15] blk-throttle: make throtl_slice tunable Shaohua Li
2016-11-22 21:27   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-22 23:18     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-23 21:17       ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 08/15] blk-throttle: detect completed idle cgroup Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 09/15] blk-throttle: make bandwidth change smooth Shaohua Li
2016-11-23 21:23   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-24  0:59     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 10/15] blk-throttle: add a simple idle detection Shaohua Li
2016-11-23 21:46   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-24  1:15     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-28 22:21       ` Tejun Heo [this message]
2016-11-28 23:10         ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-29 17:08           ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 11/15] blk-throttle: add interface to configure think time threshold Shaohua Li
2016-11-23 21:32   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-24  1:06     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-28 22:08       ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-28 22:14         ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 12/15] blk-throttle: ignore idle cgroup limit Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 13/15] blk-throttle: add a mechanism to estimate IO latency Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 23:40   ` kbuild test robot
2016-11-15  3:57   ` kbuild test robot
2016-11-29 17:24   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-29 18:30     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-29 22:36       ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 14/15] blk-throttle: add interface for per-cgroup target latency Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:22 ` [PATCH V4 15/15] blk-throttle: add latency target support Shaohua Li
2016-11-29 17:31   ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-29 18:14     ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-29 22:54       ` Tejun Heo
2016-11-29 23:39         ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-14 22:46 ` [PATCH V4 00/15] blk-throttle: add .high limit Bart Van Assche
2016-11-15  0:05   ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-15  0:41     ` Bart Van Assche
2016-11-15  0:49       ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-15  1:18         ` Bart Van Assche
2016-11-15  1:28           ` Shaohua Li
2016-11-15 19:53             ` Bart Van Assche
2016-11-15 21:31               ` Shaohua Li

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