From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgunthorpe@obsidianresearch.com> Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, tpmdd-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: [tpmdd-devel] [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:48:15 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20170104124815.jzwdx6ybojdgin5p@intel.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20170103214702.GC29656@obsidianresearch.com> On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 02:47:02PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 08:36:10AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > > > > I'm not sure about this. Why you couldn't have a very thin daemon > > > that prepares the file descriptor and sends it through UDS socket to > > > a client. > > > > So I'm a bit soured on daemons from the trousers experience: tcsd > > crashed regularly and when it did it took all the TPM connections down > > irrecoverably. I'm not saying we can't write a stateless daemon to fix > > most of the trousers issues, but I think it's valuable first to ask the > > question, "can we manage without a daemon at all?" I actually think > > the answer is "yes", so I'm interested in seeing how far that line of > > research gets us. > > There is clearly no need for a daemon to be involved when working on > simple tasks like key load and key sign/enc/dec actions, adding such a > thing only increases the complexity. > > If we discover a reason to have a daemon down the road then it should > work in some way where the user space can call out to the daemon over > a different path than the kernel. (eg dbus or something) > > > Do you have a link to the presentation? The Plumbers etherpad doesn't > > contain it. I've been trying to work out whether a properly set up TPM > > actually does need any protections at all. As far as I can tell, once > > you've set all the hierarchy authorities and the lockout one, you're > > pretty well protected. > > I think we should also consider TPM 1.2 support in all of this, it is > still a very popular peice of hardware and it is equally able to > support a RM. I'm not against considering TPM 1.2 support but getting both in the same patch set would be too much. > > So, in general, I'd prefer to see the unprivileged char dev hard > prevented by the kernel from doing certain things: > > - Wipe the TPM > - Manipulate the SRK, nvram, tpm flags, change passwords etc > - Read back the EK > - Write to PCRs > - etc. I rather have an ioctl where you can supply a list of CCs that you want to allow a client to do. /Jarkko > Even if TPM 2 has a stronger password based model, I still think the > kernel should hard prevent those sorts of actions even if the user > knows the TPM password. > > Realistically people in less senstive environments will want to use > the well known TPM passwords and still have reasonable safety in their > unprivileged accounts. > > Jason
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org> To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgunthorpe-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>, linux-security-module-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, tpmdd-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org, open list <linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:48:15 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20170104124815.jzwdx6ybojdgin5p@intel.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20170103214702.GC29656-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 02:47:02PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 08:36:10AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > > > > I'm not sure about this. Why you couldn't have a very thin daemon > > > that prepares the file descriptor and sends it through UDS socket to > > > a client. > > > > So I'm a bit soured on daemons from the trousers experience: tcsd > > crashed regularly and when it did it took all the TPM connections down > > irrecoverably. I'm not saying we can't write a stateless daemon to fix > > most of the trousers issues, but I think it's valuable first to ask the > > question, "can we manage without a daemon at all?" I actually think > > the answer is "yes", so I'm interested in seeing how far that line of > > research gets us. > > There is clearly no need for a daemon to be involved when working on > simple tasks like key load and key sign/enc/dec actions, adding such a > thing only increases the complexity. > > If we discover a reason to have a daemon down the road then it should > work in some way where the user space can call out to the daemon over > a different path than the kernel. (eg dbus or something) > > > Do you have a link to the presentation? The Plumbers etherpad doesn't > > contain it. I've been trying to work out whether a properly set up TPM > > actually does need any protections at all. As far as I can tell, once > > you've set all the hierarchy authorities and the lockout one, you're > > pretty well protected. > > I think we should also consider TPM 1.2 support in all of this, it is > still a very popular peice of hardware and it is equally able to > support a RM. I'm not against considering TPM 1.2 support but getting both in the same patch set would be too much. > > So, in general, I'd prefer to see the unprivileged char dev hard > prevented by the kernel from doing certain things: > > - Wipe the TPM > - Manipulate the SRK, nvram, tpm flags, change passwords etc > - Read back the EK > - Write to PCRs > - etc. I rather have an ioctl where you can supply a list of CCs that you want to allow a client to do. /Jarkko > Even if TPM 2 has a stronger password based model, I still think the > kernel should hard prevent those sorts of actions even if the user > knows the TPM password. > > Realistically people in less senstive environments will want to use > the well known TPM passwords and still have reasonable safety in their > unprivileged accounts. > > Jason ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-01-04 12:49 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2017-01-02 13:22 [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 1/4] tpm: migrate struct tpm_buf to struct tpm_chip Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 21:01 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-02 21:01 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 0:57 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 19:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 19:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 12:29 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 12:29 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 2/4] tpm: validate TPM 2.0 commands Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen [not found] ` <20170102132213.22880-3-jarkko.sakkinen-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-04 18:04 ` Stefan Berger 2017-01-04 18:19 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-04 18:19 ` James Bottomley [not found] ` <1483553976.2561.38.camel-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-04 18:59 ` Stefan Berger [not found] ` <OF3FD1DF4F.FB87C3F2-ON0025809E.00682E9B-8525809E.00684A8A-8eTO7WVQ4XIsd+ienQ86orlN3bxYEBpz@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-04 19:05 ` James Bottomley [not found] ` <1483556735.2561.53.camel-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-04 19:22 ` Stefan Berger [not found] ` <OFDFABBD23.E5E1F639-ON0025809E.006924C4-8525809E.006A7568-8eTO7WVQ4XIsd+ienQ86orlN3bxYEBpz@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-09 22:17 ` Jarkko Sakkinen [not found] ` <20170109221700.q7tq362rd6r23d5b-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-09 22:39 ` Stefan Berger 2017-01-04 18:44 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 18:44 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 3/4] tpm: export tpm2_flush_context_cmd Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 4/4] tpm: add the infrastructure for TPM space for TPM 2.0 Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 21:09 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-02 21:09 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 0:37 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 18:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 18:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 12:43 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 12:43 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 19:16 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 19:16 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 12:45 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 12:45 ` Jarkko Sakkinen [not found] ` <20170102132213.22880-5-jarkko.sakkinen-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-04 17:50 ` Stefan Berger 2017-01-09 22:11 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 16:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager James Bottomley 2017-01-02 19:33 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 19:33 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-02 21:40 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-02 21:40 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-03 5:26 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-03 13:41 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 13:41 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 16:14 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-03 16:14 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-03 18:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 18:36 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 19:14 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 19:14 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 19:34 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-03 19:34 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-03 21:54 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 21:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 12:58 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 12:58 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 16:55 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 16:55 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 5:47 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Andy Lutomirski 2017-01-04 13:00 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 13:51 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 13:51 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 16:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-03 16:36 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-03 18:40 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-03 21:47 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 22:21 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-03 22:21 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-03 23:20 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 23:20 ` Jason Gunthorpe [not found] ` <20170103214702.GC29656-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-03 22:22 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-03 22:39 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-03 22:39 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-04 0:17 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 0:29 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-04 0:29 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-04 0:56 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 0:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 12:50 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 12:50 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-04 14:53 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-04 14:53 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-04 18:31 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 18:31 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 18:57 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-04 18:57 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-04 19:24 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-04 19:24 ` Jason Gunthorpe [not found] ` <20170104001732.GB32185-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-10 18:55 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-04 12:48 ` Jarkko Sakkinen [this message] 2017-01-04 12:48 ` Jarkko Sakkinen [not found] ` <1483461370.2464.19.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-03 22:18 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-03 21:32 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 21:32 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-03 22:03 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-05 15:52 ` Fuchs, Andreas 2017-01-05 15:52 ` Fuchs, Andreas 2017-01-05 17:27 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 18:06 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-05 18:06 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-06 8:43 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Andreas Fuchs 2017-01-06 8:43 ` Andreas Fuchs [not found] ` <410e3045-58dc-5415-30c1-c86eb916b6c8-iXjGqz/onsDSyEMIgutvibNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org> 2017-01-10 18:57 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-05 18:33 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-05 18:33 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-05 19:20 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 19:20 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 19:55 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-05 19:55 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-05 22:21 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 22:21 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 22:58 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-05 22:58 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-05 23:50 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-05 23:50 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-06 0:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley 2017-01-06 0:36 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-06 8:59 ` Andreas Fuchs 2017-01-06 8:59 ` Andreas Fuchs 2017-01-06 19:10 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-06 19:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-06 19:02 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-06 19:02 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-10 19:03 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-10 19:03 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-09 22:39 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-09 22:39 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-11 10:03 ` Andreas Fuchs 2017-01-11 10:03 ` Andreas Fuchs 2017-01-04 16:12 Dr. Greg Wettstein 2017-01-04 16:12 ` Dr. Greg Wettstein 2017-01-09 23:16 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-10 19:29 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-10 19:29 ` Ken Goldman 2017-01-11 11:36 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-10 20:05 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-11 10:00 ` Andreas Fuchs 2017-01-11 18:03 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-11 18:27 ` Stefan Berger 2017-01-11 19:18 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-11 11:34 ` Jarkko Sakkinen 2017-01-11 15:39 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-11 17:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2017-01-11 18:25 ` James Bottomley 2017-01-11 19:04 ` Jason Gunthorpe
Reply instructions: You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email using any one of the following methods: * Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client, and reply-to-all from there: mbox Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style * Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to switches of git-send-email(1): git send-email \ --in-reply-to=20170104124815.jzwdx6ybojdgin5p@intel.com \ --to=jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com \ --cc=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com \ --cc=jgunthorpe@obsidianresearch.com \ --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \ --cc=linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org \ --cc=tpmdd-devel@lists.sourceforge.net \ /path/to/YOUR_REPLY https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html * If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header via mailto: links, try the mailto: linkBe sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes, see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror all data and code used by this external index.