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From: Brian Foster <bfoster@redhat.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, Martin Svec <martin.svec@zoner.cz>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] xfs: push buffer of flush locked dquot to avoid quotacheck deadlock
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:40:31 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170419204030.GA42820@bfoster.bfoster> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170419024649.GG12369@dastard>

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:46:49PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 09:55:31AM -0400, Brian Foster wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 12:35:48PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 10:53:03AM -0400, Brian Foster wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 09:55:25AM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > > > > So why can't we just modify the dquot in the buffer?  We already
> > > > > hold all the locks needed to guarantee exclusive access to the dquot
> > > > > and buffer, and they are all we hold when we do the initial flush to
> > > > > the buffer. So why do we need to do IO to unlock the dquot flush
> > > > > lock when we could just rewrite before we submit the buffer for IO?
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Are you suggesting to essentially ignore the flush lock? I suppose we
> > > > could get away with this in dq_flush_one() since it is only called from
> > > > quotacheck, but we may have to kill off any assertions that expect the
> > > > flush lock in xfs_dqflush(), and perhaps refactor that code to accept a
> > > > locked buffer as a param.
> > > 
> > > No, I'm not suggesting we ignore the flush lock. What the flush
> > > "lock" does is prevent higher layer attempts to flush the dquot to
> > > the backing buffer whilst IO may be in progress. It's higher level
> > > function is to allows async log item state updates to be done
> > > correctly w.r.t. relogging and flushing, as we allow transactional
> > > modifications to inodes and dquots while they are under IO.
> > > 
> > 
> > Ok. What I was trying to recall previously was some discussion around
> > the flush lock retry problem where it was noted that we can't unlock the
> > flush lock until the currently flushed state makes it to disk[1]. Is the
> > conceptual difference here that we are not proposing to unlock the flush
> > lock, but rather co-opt it to perform another flush?
> 
> I wouldn't use that wording, but you've got the idea.
> 
> [...]
> 

Ok.

> > > > I don't see anything that would break off hand, but my first reaction is
> > > > it sounds more hackish than this patch or the previous patch that just
> > > > disabled reclaim during quotacheck.
> > > 
> > > I thought we'd done that discussion. i.e. we can't disable reclaim
> > > in quotacheck because that can set off the OOM killer...
> > > 
> > 
> > Huh? The only reason disabling of dquot reclaim during quotacheck was
> > proposed in the first place is because it is 100% superfluous.
> 
> ISTR that we broke dquot reclaim during quotacheck by moving to
> private delwri lists. I'm working under the impression that dquot
> reclaim during quotacheck used to work just fine. maybe I'm wrong,
> but ....
> 

As noted in the commit log for this patch, the commit that appears to
introduce the regression is 43ff2122e6 ("xfs: on-stack delayed write
buffer lists"), which I believe introduces (or is part of a series that
introduces) the private delwri queue bits.

I should correct my previous statement.. it's not clear to me whether
dquot reclaim during quotacheck worked at some time before this. It may
very well have, I'm not really familiar with the pre-private delwri
queue bits. I've only gone as far back as this patch to identify that
quotacheck had a mechanism to deal with flush locked buffers and that
since this commit, I don't see how dquot reclaim has had the ability to
free memory during quotacheck. My intent is more to point out that this
apparently has been the state of things for quite some time.

Either way, this is not terribly important as this patch replaces the
original "disable reclaim during quotacheck" variant (IOW, I'll just
accept that it worked at some point in the past). I was originally
responding to the claim that the whole bottom up locking thing was
somehow notably more simple than what has been proposed so far.

> > Quotacheck, by design, does not allow reclaim to free memory. Therefore
> > reclaim does not and afaict never has prevented or even mitigated OOM
> > during quotacheck.
> 
> .... the intent has always been to allow dquot reclaim to run when
> quotacheck is active because we've had our fair share of OOM
> problems in quotacheck over the past 10 years. Bugs notwithstanding,
> we really should be trying to ensure the code fulfils that intent
> rather than sweep it under the carpet and tell users "too bad, so
> sad" when quotacheck OOMs...
> 

Apparently not so much in the last... looks like almost 5 years now. ;)

But as noted (multiple times) previously, this is not mutually exclusive
to fixing the deadlock and I would have been happy to get the deadlock
fixed and follow up looking at improving quotacheck efficiency.

> [...]
> 
> > P.S., To be completely clear of my position on this issue at this
> > point... given the amount of time I've already spent responding to
> > handwavy arguments (ultimately resulting in discussing trailing off
> > until a repost occurs), or experimenting with a known bogus quotacheck
> > rework (which is still left without feedback, I believe), etc.,
> > clarification on the correctness of this alternate approach (while
> > interesting) is not nearly convincing enough for me to start over on
> > this bug. I don't mind handwavy questions if the "caller" is receptive
> > to or attempting to process (or debate) clarification, but I don't get
> > the impression that is the case here.
> > 
> > If you feel strongly enough about a certain approach, feel free to just
> > send a patch. At this point, I'm happy to help review anything from the
> > sole perspective of technical correctness (regardless of whether the I
> > think the approach is ugly), but I'm not personally wasting any more
> > time than I already have to implement and test such an approach without
> > a more logical and convincing argument. IMO, the feedback to this patch
> > doesn't fairly or reasonably justify the level of pushback.
> 
> I just responded to the code that was posted, pointing out a
> list of things that concerned me and, I thought, we've been working
> through that quite amicably.
> 

I have noted a few useful updates to this patch, but otherwise don't see
anything to suggest that posting this again will get it anywhere close
to being merged. The previous mail actually states that this "can't be
merged." :P

Be that as it may, the justifications for that objection appear to me to
be mostly unsubstantiated, not fleshed out (IMO) and lead to an
alternative proposal that doesn't seem any less hacky to me. Therefore,
those reasons don't justify enough to me to start over when I've 1.)
done that twice already 2.) already invested considerable time into a
fix that I consider more appropriate and relatively straightforward and
3.) invested similarly to ensure that said fix actually works.

So feel free to either propose an approach that is sufficiently
attractive to warrant further investigation (I don't have any other
ideas at the moment), or just send a patch that implements your
preferred approach. As mentioned, I'll help review whatever for
technical correctness at this point. I think it's fair to call that
"amicable disagreement." ;)

> Really, it is up to the maintainer whether to merge the code or not.
> That's not me - I'm now just someone who knows the code and it's
> history.  This is where the maintainer needs to step in and make a
> decision one way or the other....
> 

I don't think anybody is going to suggest we merge a patch that you (or
any consistent XFS code reviewer) effectively object to. I certainly
wouldn't ask Darrick to do that, nor would I take that approach if I
were in his shoes.

Brian

> -Dave.
> -- 
> Dave Chinner
> david@fromorbit.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-04-19 20:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-02-24 19:53 [PATCH v2 0/3] xfs: quotacheck vs. dquot reclaim deadlock Brian Foster
2017-02-24 19:53 ` [PATCH 1/3] xfs: fix up quotacheck buffer list error handling Brian Foster
2017-04-06 22:39   ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-04-07 12:02     ` Brian Foster
2017-04-07 18:20       ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-04-07 18:38         ` Brian Foster
2017-04-10  4:18   ` Dave Chinner
2017-04-10 14:13     ` Brian Foster
2017-02-24 19:53 ` [PATCH 2/3] xfs: push buffer of flush locked dquot to avoid quotacheck deadlock Brian Foster
2017-04-06 22:34   ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-04-07 12:06     ` Brian Foster
2017-04-07 20:07       ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-04-10 14:19         ` Brian Foster
2017-04-10  5:00   ` Dave Chinner
2017-04-10 14:15     ` Brian Foster
2017-04-10 23:55       ` Dave Chinner
2017-04-11 14:53         ` Brian Foster
2017-04-18  2:35           ` Dave Chinner
2017-04-18 13:55             ` Brian Foster
2017-04-19  2:46               ` Dave Chinner
2017-04-19 19:55                 ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-04-19 20:46                   ` Brian Foster
2017-04-21 12:18                     ` Brian Foster
2017-04-19 20:40                 ` Brian Foster [this message]
2017-04-11 12:50     ` Brian Foster
2017-02-24 19:53 ` [PATCH 3/3] [RFC] xfs: release buffer list after quotacheck buf reset Brian Foster

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