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From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
Cc: Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	"Box, David E" <david.e.box@intel.com>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, "Zheng, Lv" <lv.zheng@intel.com>,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	"Anaczkowski, Lukasz" <lukasz.anaczkowski@intel.com>,
	Moore,Lukasz, "Erik  <erik.schmauss@intel.com>,
	Len Brown" <lenb@kernel.org>, John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>,
	devel@acpica.org, "Kogut, Jaroslaw" <Jaroslaw.Kogut@intel.com>,
	"Koss, Marcin  <marcin.koss@intel.com>,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org, Brice Goglin" <brice.goglin@gmail.com>,
	"Nachimuthu, Murugasamy  <murugasamy.nachimuthu@intel.com>,
	Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Koziej,,
	"Joonas  <joonas.lahtinen@intel.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Tim Chen" <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] create sysfs representation of ACPI HMAT
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:16:49 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171220211649.GA32200@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2da89d31-27a3-34ab-2dbb-92403c8215ec@intel.com>

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 12:22:21PM -0800, Dave Hansen wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 10:19 AM, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > I don't know what the right interface is, but my laptop has a set of
> > /sys/devices/system/memory/memoryN/ directories.  Perhaps this is the
> > right place to expose write_bw (etc).
> 
> Those directories are already too redundant and wasteful.  I think we'd
> really rather not add to them.  In addition, it's technically possible
> to have a memory section span NUMA nodes and have different performance
> properties, which make it impossible to represent there.
> 
> In any case, ACPI PXM's (Proximity Domains) are guaranteed to have
> uniform performance properties in the HMAT, and we just so happen to
> always create one NUMA node per PXM.  So, NUMA nodes really are a good fit.

I think you're missing my larger point which is that I don't think this
should be exposed to userspace as an ACPI feature.  Because if you do,
then it'll also be exposed to userspace as an openfirmware feature.
And sooner or later a devicetree feature.  And then writing a portable
program becomes an exercise in suffering.

So, what's the right place in sysfs that isn't tied to ACPI?  A new
directory or set of directories under /sys/devices/system/memory/ ?
_______________________________________________
Linux-nvdimm mailing list
Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org
https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
Cc: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Anaczkowski,
	Lukasz" <lukasz.anaczkowski@intel.com>,
	"Box, David E" <david.e.box@intel.com>,
	"Kogut, Jaroslaw" <Jaroslaw.Kogut@intel.com>,
	"Koss, Marcin" <marcin.koss@intel.com>,
	"Koziej, Artur" <artur.koziej@intel.com>,
	"Lahtinen, Joonas" <joonas.lahtinen@intel.com>,
	"Moore, Robert" <robert.moore@intel.com>,
	"Nachimuthu, Murugasamy" <murugasamy.nachimuthu@intel.com>,
	"Odzioba, Lukasz" <lukasz.odzioba@intel.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	"Schmauss, Erik" <erik.schmauss@intel.com>,
	"Verma, Vishal L" <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	"Zheng, Lv" <lv.zheng@intel.com>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux->
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] create sysfs representation of ACPI HMAT
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:16:49 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171220211649.GA32200@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2da89d31-27a3-34ab-2dbb-92403c8215ec@intel.com>

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 12:22:21PM -0800, Dave Hansen wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 10:19 AM, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > I don't know what the right interface is, but my laptop has a set of
> > /sys/devices/system/memory/memoryN/ directories.  Perhaps this is the
> > right place to expose write_bw (etc).
> 
> Those directories are already too redundant and wasteful.  I think we'd
> really rather not add to them.  In addition, it's technically possible
> to have a memory section span NUMA nodes and have different performance
> properties, which make it impossible to represent there.
> 
> In any case, ACPI PXM's (Proximity Domains) are guaranteed to have
> uniform performance properties in the HMAT, and we just so happen to
> always create one NUMA node per PXM.  So, NUMA nodes really are a good fit.

I think you're missing my larger point which is that I don't think this
should be exposed to userspace as an ACPI feature.  Because if you do,
then it'll also be exposed to userspace as an openfirmware feature.
And sooner or later a devicetree feature.  And then writing a portable
program becomes an exercise in suffering.

So, what's the right place in sysfs that isn't tied to ACPI?  A new
directory or set of directories under /sys/devices/system/memory/ ?

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
Cc: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Anaczkowski,
	Lukasz" <lukasz.anaczkowski@intel.com>,
	"Box, David E" <david.e.box@intel.com>,
	"Kogut, Jaroslaw" <Jaroslaw.Kogut@intel.com>,
	"Koss, Marcin" <marcin.koss@intel.com>,
	"Koziej, Artur" <artur.koziej@intel.com>,
	"Lahtinen, Joonas" <joonas.lahtinen@intel.com>,
	"Moore, Robert" <robert.moore@intel.com>,
	"Nachimuthu, Murugasamy" <murugasamy.nachimuthu@intel.com>,
	"Odzioba, Lukasz" <lukasz.odzioba@intel.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	"Schmauss, Erik" <erik.schmauss@intel.com>,
	"Verma, Vishal L" <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	"Zheng, Lv" <lv.zheng@intel.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Balbir Singh <bsingharora@gmail.com>,
	Brice Goglin <brice.goglin@gmail.com>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>,
	John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>, Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org>,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
	devel@acpica.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] create sysfs representation of ACPI HMAT
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:16:49 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171220211649.GA32200@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2da89d31-27a3-34ab-2dbb-92403c8215ec@intel.com>

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 12:22:21PM -0800, Dave Hansen wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 10:19 AM, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > I don't know what the right interface is, but my laptop has a set of
> > /sys/devices/system/memory/memoryN/ directories.  Perhaps this is the
> > right place to expose write_bw (etc).
> 
> Those directories are already too redundant and wasteful.  I think we'd
> really rather not add to them.  In addition, it's technically possible
> to have a memory section span NUMA nodes and have different performance
> properties, which make it impossible to represent there.
> 
> In any case, ACPI PXM's (Proximity Domains) are guaranteed to have
> uniform performance properties in the HMAT, and we just so happen to
> always create one NUMA node per PXM.  So, NUMA nodes really are a good fit.

I think you're missing my larger point which is that I don't think this
should be exposed to userspace as an ACPI feature.  Because if you do,
then it'll also be exposed to userspace as an openfirmware feature.
And sooner or later a devicetree feature.  And then writing a portable
program becomes an exercise in suffering.

So, what's the right place in sysfs that isn't tied to ACPI?  A new
directory or set of directories under /sys/devices/system/memory/ ?

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
Cc: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Anaczkowski,
	Lukasz" <lukasz.anaczkowski@intel.com>,
	"Box, David E" <david.e.box@intel.com>,
	"Kogut, Jaroslaw" <Jaroslaw.Kogut@intel.com>,
	"Koss, Marcin" <marcin.koss@intel.com>,
	"Koziej, Artur" <artur.koziej@intel.com>,
	"Lahtinen, Joonas" <joonas.lahtinen@intel.com>,
	"Moore, Robert" <robert.moore@intel.com>,
	"Nachimuthu, Murugasamy" <murugasamy.nachimuthu@intel.com>,
	"Odzioba, Lukasz" <lukasz.odzioba@intel.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	"Schmauss, Erik" <erik.schmauss@intel.com>,
	"Verma, Vishal L" <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	"Zheng, Lv" <lv.zheng@intel.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Balbir Singh <bsingharora@gmail.com>,
	Brice Goglin <brice.goglin@gmail.com>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>,
	John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>, Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org>,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
	devel@acpica.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/3] create sysfs representation of ACPI HMAT
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:16:49 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171220211649.GA32200@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2da89d31-27a3-34ab-2dbb-92403c8215ec@intel.com>

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 12:22:21PM -0800, Dave Hansen wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 10:19 AM, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > I don't know what the right interface is, but my laptop has a set of
> > /sys/devices/system/memory/memoryN/ directories.  Perhaps this is the
> > right place to expose write_bw (etc).
> 
> Those directories are already too redundant and wasteful.  I think we'd
> really rather not add to them.  In addition, it's technically possible
> to have a memory section span NUMA nodes and have different performance
> properties, which make it impossible to represent there.
> 
> In any case, ACPI PXM's (Proximity Domains) are guaranteed to have
> uniform performance properties in the HMAT, and we just so happen to
> always create one NUMA node per PXM.  So, NUMA nodes really are a good fit.

I think you're missing my larger point which is that I don't think this
should be exposed to userspace as an ACPI feature.  Because if you do,
then it'll also be exposed to userspace as an openfirmware feature.
And sooner or later a devicetree feature.  And then writing a portable
program becomes an exercise in suffering.

So, what's the right place in sysfs that isn't tied to ACPI?  A new
directory or set of directories under /sys/devices/system/memory/ ?

--
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  reply	other threads:[~2017-12-20 21:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 180+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-12-14  2:10 [PATCH v3 0/3] create sysfs representation of ACPI HMAT Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10 ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10 ` [PATCH v3 1/3] acpi: HMAT support in acpi_parse_entries_array() Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-15  0:49   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:49     ` [Devel] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:49     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:49     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:49     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  1:10   ` Dan Williams
2017-12-15  1:10     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-15  1:10     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-15  1:10     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-16  1:53     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  1:53       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  1:53       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  1:53       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  1:57       ` Dan Williams
2017-12-16  1:57         ` Dan Williams
2017-12-16  1:57         ` Dan Williams
2017-12-16  2:15         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  2:15           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  2:15           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-16  2:15           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-14  2:10 ` [PATCH v3 2/3] hmat: add heterogeneous memory sysfs support Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-15  0:52   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:52     ` [Devel] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:52     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15  0:52     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-15 20:53     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-15 20:53       ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-15 20:53       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-15 20:53       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-15 20:53       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10 ` [PATCH v3 3/3] hmat: add performance attributes Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14  2:10   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-14 13:00 ` [PATCH v3 0/3] create sysfs representation of ACPI HMAT Michal Hocko
2017-12-14 13:00   ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-14 13:00   ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-18 20:35   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-18 20:35     ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-18 20:35     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-18 20:35     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-18 20:35     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 16:41     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 16:41       ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 16:41       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 16:41       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 16:41       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-21 13:18       ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-21 13:18         ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-21 13:18         ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-21 13:18         ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-20 18:19     ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-20 18:19       ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-20 18:19       ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-20 20:22       ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-20 20:22         ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-20 20:22         ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-20 21:16         ` Matthew Wilcox [this message]
2017-12-20 21:16           ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-20 21:16           ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-20 21:16           ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-20 21:24           ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:24             ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:24             ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:24             ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 22:29             ` Dan Williams
2017-12-20 22:29               ` Dan Williams
2017-12-20 22:29               ` Dan Williams
2017-12-20 22:41               ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 22:41                 ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 22:41                 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 22:41                 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 22:41                 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-21 20:31                 ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-21 20:31                   ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-21 20:31                   ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-21 20:31                   ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-22 22:53                   ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 22:53                     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 22:53                     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 22:53                     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 22:53                     ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 23:22                     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 23:22                       ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 23:22                       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 23:22                       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 23:22                       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 23:57                       ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 23:57                         ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 23:57                         ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 23:57                         ` Dan Williams
2017-12-22 23:57                         ` Dan Williams
2017-12-23  1:14                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-23  1:14                           ` [Devel] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-23  1:14                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-23  1:14                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-23  1:14                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-23  1:14                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-12-27  9:10                     ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-27  9:10                       ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-27  9:10                       ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-27  9:10                       ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-30  6:58                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30  6:58                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30  6:58                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30  6:58                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30  9:19                         ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-30  9:19                           ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-30  9:19                           ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-30  9:19                           ` Brice Goglin
2017-12-20 21:13       ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:13         ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:13         ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:13         ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-20 21:13         ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-21  1:41         ` Elliott, Robert (Persistent Memory)
2017-12-21  1:41           ` Elliott, Robert (Persistent Memory)
2017-12-21  1:41           ` Elliott, Robert (Persistent Memory)
2017-12-21  1:41           ` Elliott, Robert (Persistent Memory)
2017-12-21  1:41           ` Elliott, Robert (Persistent Memory)
2017-12-22 21:46           ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 21:46             ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 21:46             ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 21:46             ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-21 12:50       ` Michael Ellerman
2017-12-21 12:50         ` Michael Ellerman
2017-12-21 12:50         ` Michael Ellerman
2017-12-21 12:50         ` Michael Ellerman
2017-12-22  3:09 ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22  3:09   ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22  3:09   ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22  3:09   ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 10:31   ` Kogut, Jaroslaw
2017-12-22 10:31     ` Kogut, Jaroslaw
2017-12-22 10:31     ` Kogut, Jaroslaw
2017-12-22 14:37     ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 14:37       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 14:37       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 14:37       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 17:13   ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-22 17:13     ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-22 17:13     ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-22 17:13     ` Dave Hansen
2017-12-23  5:14     ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-23  5:14       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-23  5:14       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-23  5:14       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 22:13   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:13     ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:13     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:13     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:13     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-23  6:56     ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-23  6:56       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-23  6:56       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-23  6:56       ` Anshuman Khandual
2017-12-22 22:31   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:31     ` [Devel] " Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:31     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:31     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-22 22:31     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-12-25  2:05     ` Liubo(OS Lab)
2017-12-25  2:05       ` Liubo(OS Lab)
2017-12-25  2:05       ` Liubo(OS Lab)
2017-12-25  2:05       ` Liubo(OS Lab)

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