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From: Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net>
To: Trond Myklebust <trondmy@hammerspace.com>
Cc: "paul.burton@mips.com" <paul.burton@mips.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"ralf@linux-mips.org" <ralf@linux-mips.org>,
	"jlayton@kernel.org" <jlayton@kernel.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	"bfields@fieldses.org" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	"linux-mips@linux-mips.org" <linux-mips@linux-mips.org>,
	"linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	"akpm@linux-foundation.org" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"anna.schumaker@netapp.com" <anna.schumaker@netapp.com>,
	"jhogan@kernel.org" <jhogan@kernel.org>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"davem@davemloft.net" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"arnd@arndb.de" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"paulus@samba.org" <paulus@samba.org>,
	"mpe@ellerman.id.au" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"benh@kernel.crashing.org" <benh@kernel.crashing.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] lib: Introduce generic __cmpxchg_u64() and use it where needed
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 08:28:49 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181101152849.GC25346@roeck-us.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d7fe095d8d1f848b5742a5b3e8cce9f89e0c1c8d.camel@hammerspace.com>

On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 06:30:08AM +0000, Trond Myklebust wrote:
[ ... ]
> > 
> > For my part I agree that this would be a much better solution. The
> > argument
> > that it is not always absolutely guaranteed that atomics don't wrap
> > doesn't
> > really hold for me because it looks like they all do. On top of that,
> > there
> > is an explicit atomic_dec_if_positive() and
> > atomic_fetch_add_unless(),
> > which to me strongly suggests that they _are_ supposed to wrap.
> > Given the cost of adding a comparison to each atomic operation to
> > prevent it from wrapping, anything else would not really make sense
> > to me.
> 
> That's a hypothesis, not a proven fact. There are architectures out
> there that do not wrap signed integers, hence my question.
> 

If what you say is correct, the kernel is in big trouble on those architectures.
atomic_inc_return() is used all over the place in the kernel with the assumption
that each returned value differs from the previous value (ie the value is used
as cookie, session ID, or for similar purposes).

Guenter

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net>
To: Trond Myklebust <trondmy@hammerspace.com>
Cc: "paul.burton@mips.com" <paul.burton@mips.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"ralf@linux-mips.org" <ralf@linux-mips.org>,
	"jlayton@kernel.org" <jlayton@kernel.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	"bfields@fieldses.org" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	"linux-mips@linux-mips.org" <linux-mips@linux-mips.org>,
	"linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	"akpm@linux-foundation.org" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"anna.schumaker@netapp.com" <anna.schumaker@netapp.com>,
	"jhogan@kernel.org" <jhogan@kernel.org>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"davem@davemloft.net" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"arnd@arndb.de" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"paulus@samba.org" <paulus@samba.org>,
	"mpe@ellerman.id.au" <mpe@ell
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] lib: Introduce generic __cmpxchg_u64() and use it where needed
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 08:28:49 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181101152849.GC25346@roeck-us.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d7fe095d8d1f848b5742a5b3e8cce9f89e0c1c8d.camel@hammerspace.com>

On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 06:30:08AM +0000, Trond Myklebust wrote:
[ ... ]
> > 
> > For my part I agree that this would be a much better solution. The
> > argument
> > that it is not always absolutely guaranteed that atomics don't wrap
> > doesn't
> > really hold for me because it looks like they all do. On top of that,
> > there
> > is an explicit atomic_dec_if_positive() and
> > atomic_fetch_add_unless(),
> > which to me strongly suggests that they _are_ supposed to wrap.
> > Given the cost of adding a comparison to each atomic operation to
> > prevent it from wrapping, anything else would not really make sense
> > to me.
> 
> That's a hypothesis, not a proven fact. There are architectures out
> there that do not wrap signed integers, hence my question.
> 

If what you say is correct, the kernel is in big trouble on those architectures.
atomic_inc_return() is used all over the place in the kernel with the assumption
that each returned value differs from the previous value (ie the value is used
as cookie, session ID, or for similar purposes).

Guenter

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net>
To: Trond Myklebust <trondmy@hammerspace.com>
Cc: "linux-mips@linux-mips.org" <linux-mips@linux-mips.org>,
	"linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	"arnd@arndb.de" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"jhogan@kernel.org" <jhogan@kernel.org>,
	"jlayton@kernel.org" <jlayton@kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"ralf@linux-mips.org" <ralf@linux-mips.org>,
	"davem@davemloft.net" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"bfields@fieldses.org" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	"paul.burton@mips.com" <paul.burton@mips.com>,
	"paulus@samba.org" <paulus@samba.org>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"akpm@linux-foundation.org" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	"anna.schumaker@netapp.com" <anna.schumaker@netapp.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] lib: Introduce generic __cmpxchg_u64() and use it where needed
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 08:28:49 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181101152849.GC25346@roeck-us.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d7fe095d8d1f848b5742a5b3e8cce9f89e0c1c8d.camel@hammerspace.com>

On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 06:30:08AM +0000, Trond Myklebust wrote:
[ ... ]
> > 
> > For my part I agree that this would be a much better solution. The
> > argument
> > that it is not always absolutely guaranteed that atomics don't wrap
> > doesn't
> > really hold for me because it looks like they all do. On top of that,
> > there
> > is an explicit atomic_dec_if_positive() and
> > atomic_fetch_add_unless(),
> > which to me strongly suggests that they _are_ supposed to wrap.
> > Given the cost of adding a comparison to each atomic operation to
> > prevent it from wrapping, anything else would not really make sense
> > to me.
> 
> That's a hypothesis, not a proven fact. There are architectures out
> there that do not wrap signed integers, hence my question.
> 

If what you say is correct, the kernel is in big trouble on those architectures.
atomic_inc_return() is used all over the place in the kernel with the assumption
that each returned value differs from the previous value (ie the value is used
as cookie, session ID, or for similar purposes).

Guenter

  reply	other threads:[~2018-11-01 15:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-31 19:52 [RFC PATCH] lib: Introduce generic __cmpxchg_u64() and use it where needed Guenter Roeck
2018-10-31 19:52 ` Guenter Roeck
2018-10-31 21:32 ` Paul Burton
2018-10-31 21:32   ` Paul Burton
2018-10-31 22:02   ` Guenter Roeck
2018-10-31 22:02     ` Guenter Roeck
2018-10-31 23:32     ` Paul Burton
2018-10-31 23:32       ` Paul Burton
2018-11-01  0:17       ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01  0:17         ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01  0:17         ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01 13:18         ` Mark Rutland
2018-11-01 13:18           ` Mark Rutland
2018-11-01 13:18           ` Mark Rutland
2018-11-01 14:59           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 14:59             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 14:59             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 15:22             ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01 15:22               ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01 15:22               ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01 16:32               ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 16:32                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 16:32                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 16:59                 ` Eric Dumazet
2018-11-01 16:59                   ` Eric Dumazet
2018-11-01 16:59                   ` Eric Dumazet
2018-11-01 17:14                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:14                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:14                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:27                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:27                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:27                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 20:29                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 20:29                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 20:29                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:38                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 21:38                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 21:38                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 22:26                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 22:26                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 22:26                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:43                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:43                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:43                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:01                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:01                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:01                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:18                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:18                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:18                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:34                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:34                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:34                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 17:46                     ` Dmitry Vyukov
2018-11-01 17:46                       ` Dmitry Vyukov
2018-11-01 17:46                       ` Dmitry Vyukov
2018-11-01 21:45                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 21:45                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 21:45                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-02 10:56                   ` David Laight
2018-11-02 10:56                     ` David Laight
2018-11-02 10:56                     ` David Laight
2018-11-02 12:23                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-02 12:23                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-02 12:23                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-02 13:38                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:38                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:38                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:37                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:37                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:37                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 16:19                 ` Andrey Ryabinin
2018-11-02 16:19                   ` Andrey Ryabinin
2018-11-02 16:19                   ` Andrey Ryabinin
2018-11-05 10:38                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-05 10:38                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-05 10:38                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-05 14:24                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-05 14:24                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-05 14:24                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-11-01 17:51             ` [PATCH] SUNRPC: Use atomic(64)_t for seq_send(64) Paul Burton
2018-11-01 17:57               ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01 17:54         ` [RFC PATCH] lib: Introduce generic __cmpxchg_u64() and use it where needed Paul Burton
2018-11-01 17:54           ` Paul Burton
2018-11-01 17:54           ` Paul Burton
2018-11-01 17:54           ` Paul Burton
2018-11-01  1:18       ` Guenter Roeck
2018-11-01  1:18         ` Guenter Roeck
2018-11-01  6:30         ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01  6:30           ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01  6:30           ` Trond Myklebust
2018-11-01 15:28           ` Guenter Roeck [this message]
2018-11-01 15:28             ` Guenter Roeck
2018-11-01 15:28             ` Guenter Roeck

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