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From: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
Cc: Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>, paulmck <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Anton Blanchard <anton@ozlabs.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 4/7] x86: use exit_lazy_tlb rather than membarrier_mm_sync_core_before_usermode
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:11:45 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200717161145.GA1150454@rowland.harvard.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1697220787.18880.1595000348405.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>

> > I agree with Nick: A memory barrier is needed somewhere between the
> > assignment at 6 and the return to user mode at 8.  Otherwise you end up
> > with the Store Buffer pattern having a memory barrier on only one side,
> > and it is well known that this arrangement does not guarantee any
> > ordering.
> 
> Yes, I see this now. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why the memory
> barrier at the end of membarrier() needs to be paired with a scheduler
> barrier though.

The memory barrier at the end of membarrier() on CPU0 is necessary in 
order to enforce the guarantee that any writes occurring on CPU1 before 
the membarrier() is executed will be visible to any code executing on 
CPU0 after the membarrier().  Ignoring the kthread issue, we can have:

	CPU0			CPU1
				x = 1
				barrier()
				y = 1
	r2 = y
	membarrier():
	  a: smp_mb()
	  b: send IPI		IPI-induced mb
	  c: smp_mb()
	r1 = x

The writes to x and y are unordered by the hardware, so it's possible to 
have r2 = 1 even though the write to x doesn't execute until b.  If the 
memory barrier at c is omitted then "r1 = x" can be reordered before b 
(although not before a), so we get r1 = 0.  This violates the guarantee 
that membarrier() is supposed to provide.

The timing of the memory barrier at c has to ensure that it executes 
after the IPI-induced memory barrier on CPU1.  If it happened before 
then we could still end up with r1 = 0.  That's why the pairing matters.

I hope this helps your head get properly wrapped.  :-)

Alan Stern

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
Cc: linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	paulmck <paulmck@kernel.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 4/7] x86: use exit_lazy_tlb rather than membarrier_mm_sync_core_before_usermode
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:11:45 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200717161145.GA1150454@rowland.harvard.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1697220787.18880.1595000348405.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>

> > I agree with Nick: A memory barrier is needed somewhere between the
> > assignment at 6 and the return to user mode at 8.  Otherwise you end up
> > with the Store Buffer pattern having a memory barrier on only one side,
> > and it is well known that this arrangement does not guarantee any
> > ordering.
> 
> Yes, I see this now. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why the memory
> barrier at the end of membarrier() needs to be paired with a scheduler
> barrier though.

The memory barrier at the end of membarrier() on CPU0 is necessary in 
order to enforce the guarantee that any writes occurring on CPU1 before 
the membarrier() is executed will be visible to any code executing on 
CPU0 after the membarrier().  Ignoring the kthread issue, we can have:

	CPU0			CPU1
				x = 1
				barrier()
				y = 1
	r2 = y
	membarrier():
	  a: smp_mb()
	  b: send IPI		IPI-induced mb
	  c: smp_mb()
	r1 = x

The writes to x and y are unordered by the hardware, so it's possible to 
have r2 = 1 even though the write to x doesn't execute until b.  If the 
memory barrier at c is omitted then "r1 = x" can be reordered before b 
(although not before a), so we get r1 = 0.  This violates the guarantee 
that membarrier() is supposed to provide.

The timing of the memory barrier at c has to ensure that it executes 
after the IPI-induced memory barrier on CPU1.  If it happened before 
then we could still end up with r1 = 0.  That's why the pairing matters.

I hope this helps your head get properly wrapped.  :-)

Alan Stern

  reply	other threads:[~2020-07-17 16:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 136+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-10  1:56 [RFC PATCH 0/7] mmu context cleanup, lazy tlb cleanup, Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 1/7] asm-generic: add generic MMU versions of mmu context functions Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 2/7] arch: use asm-generic mmu context for no-op implementations Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 3/7] mm: introduce exit_lazy_tlb Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 4/7] x86: use exit_lazy_tlb rather than membarrier_mm_sync_core_before_usermode Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  9:42   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10  9:42     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10 14:02   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-10 14:02     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-10 14:02     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-10 17:04   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-10 17:04     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-10 17:04     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13  4:45     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13  4:45       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 13:47       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 13:47         ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 14:13         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-13 14:13           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-13 14:13           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-13 15:48           ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 15:48             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 15:48             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 16:37             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 16:37               ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  4:15           ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  4:15             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  4:42             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  4:42               ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 15:46               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 15:46                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 15:46                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 16:03                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 16:03                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 16:03                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 18:58                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 18:58                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 18:58                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 21:24                     ` Alan Stern
2020-07-16 21:24                       ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 13:39                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 13:39                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 13:39                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 14:51                         ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 14:51                           ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 15:39                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 15:39                             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 15:39                             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 16:11                             ` Alan Stern [this message]
2020-07-17 16:11                               ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 16:22                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 16:22                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 16:22                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 17:44                                 ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 17:44                                   ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 17:52                                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 17:52                                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 17:52                                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17  0:00                     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-17  0:00                       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  5:18             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-16  5:18               ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-16  6:06               ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  6:06                 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  8:50               ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-16  8:50                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-16 10:03                 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 10:03                   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 11:00                   ` peterz
2020-07-16 11:00                     ` peterz
2020-07-16 15:34                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 15:34                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 15:34                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 23:26                     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 23:26                       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-17 13:42                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 13:42                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 13:42                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-20  3:03                         ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-20  3:03                           ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-20 16:46                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-20 16:46                             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-20 16:46                             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 10:04                             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-21 10:04                               ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-21 13:11                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 13:11                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 13:11                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 14:30                                 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-21 14:30                                   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-21 15:06                               ` peterz
2020-07-21 15:06                                 ` peterz
2020-07-21 15:15                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 15:15                                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 15:15                                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 15:19                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-21 15:19                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-21 15:22                                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 15:22                                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 15:22                                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 5/7] lazy tlb: introduce lazy mm refcount helper functions Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  9:48   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10  9:48     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 6/7] lazy tlb: allow lazy tlb mm switching to be configurable Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 7/7] lazy tlb: shoot lazies, a non-refcounting lazy tlb option Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  1:56   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10  9:35   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10  9:35     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-13  4:58     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13  4:58       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 15:59   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 15:59     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 15:59     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 16:48     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 16:48       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 18:18       ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 18:18         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-14  5:04         ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-14  5:04           ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-14  6:31           ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-14  6:31             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-14 12:46             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-14 12:46               ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-14 13:23               ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-14 13:23                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-16  2:26               ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  2:26                 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  2:35               ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16  2:35                 ` Nicholas Piggin

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