From: Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org> To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> Cc: Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>, Alexandre Belloni <alexandre.belloni@bootlin.com>, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>, Pierre-Louis Bossart <pierre-louis.bossart@linux.intel.com>, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, Kiran Patil <kiran.patil@intel.com>, linux-rdma <linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org>, Shiraz Saleem <shiraz.saleem@intel.com>, Martin Habets <mhabets@solarflare.com>, Liam Girdwood <lgirdwood@gmail.com>, Ranjani Sridharan <ranjani.sridharan@linux.intel.com>, Fred Oh <fred.oh@linux.intel.com>, Dave Ertman <david.m.ertman@intel.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>, Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, Leon Romanovsky <leonro@nvidia.com>, David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Parav Pandit <parav@mellanox.com>, lee.jones@linaro.org Subject: Re: [resend/standalone PATCH v4] Add auxiliary bus support Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 18:03:10 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20201218180310.GD5333@sirena.org.uk> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20201218162817.GX552508@nvidia.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4230 bytes --] On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 12:28:17PM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 03:52:04PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:08:54AM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > > I thought the recent LWN article summed it up nicely, auxillary bus is > > > for gluing to subsystems together using a driver specific software API > > > to connect to the HW, MFD is for splitting a physical HW into disjoint > > > regions of HW. > > This conflicts with the statements from Greg about not using the > > platform bus for things that aren't memory mapped or "direct firmware", > > a large proportion of MFD subfunctions are neither at least in so far as > > I can understand what direct firmware means. > I assume MFD will keep existing and it will somehow stop using > platform device for the children it builds. If it's not supposed to use platform devices so I'm assuming that the intention is that it should use aux devices, otherwise presumably it'd be making some new clone of the platform bus but I've not seen anyone suggesting this. > That doesn't mean MFD must use aux device, so I don't see what you > mean by conflicts? I was excluding the possibility that we have to make a third bus which clones platform bus which nobody has been visibly suggesting. > If someone has a PCI device and they want to split it up, they should > choose between aux device and MFD (assuming MFD gets fixed, as Greg > has basically blanket NAK'd adding more of them to MFD as is) It is unclear to me how one is intended to choose between these approaches, especially for systems that have a range of subdevices with a range of characteristics. > > To be honest I don't find the LWN article clarifies things particularly > > here, the rationale appears to involve some misconceptions about what > > MFDs look like. It looks like it assumes that MFD functions have > > physically separate register sets for example which is not a reliable > > feature of MFDs, nor is the assumption that there's no shared > > functionality which appears to be there. It also appears to assume that > I think the MFD cell model is probably the deciding feature. If that > cell description scheme suites the device, and it is very HW focused, > then MFD is probably the answer. > The places I see aux device being used are a terrible fit for the cell > idea. If there are MFD drivers that are awkardly crammed into that > cell description then maybe they should be aux devices? When you say the MFD cell model it's not clear what you mean - I *think* you're referring to the idea of the subdevices getting all the information they need to talk to the hardware from the device resources. That's actually relatively uncommon with I2C/SPI MFDs, usually there's at least some element of just knowing what's going on and the mfd_cells are to some extent just a list of things to register rather than a model of anything. Look at something like wm8994 for example - the subdevices just know which addresses in the device I2C/SPI regmap to work with but some of them have interrupts passed through to them (and could potentially also have separate subdevices for clocks and pinctrl). These subdevices are not memory mapped, not enumerated by firmware and the hardware has indistinct separation of functions in the register map compared to how Linux models the chips. > > > Maybe there is some overlap, but if you want to add HW representations > > > to the general auxillary device then I think you are using it for the > > > wrong thing. > > Even for the narrowest use case for auxiliary devices that I can think > > of I think the assumption that nobody will ever design something which > > can wire an interrupt intended to be serviced by a subfunction is a bit > > optimistic. > mlx5, for example, uses interrupts but an aux device is not assigned > an exclusive MSI interrupt list. > These devices have a very dynamic interrupt scheme, pre-partitioning > the MSI vector table is completely the wrong API. I'm not saying dynamic interrupt schemes or event queues from firmware can't exist, I'm saying not all interrupt schemes are dynamic. 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From: Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org> To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> Cc: Alexandre Belloni <alexandre.belloni@bootlin.com>, lee.jones@linaro.org, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Kiran Patil <kiran.patil@intel.com>, Liam Girdwood <lgirdwood@gmail.com>, linux-rdma <linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org>, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>, Martin Habets <mhabets@solarflare.com>, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, Pierre-Louis Bossart <pierre-louis.bossart@linux.intel.com>, Fred Oh <fred.oh@linux.intel.com>, Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, Ranjani Sridharan <ranjani.sridharan@linux.intel.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>, Dave Ertman <david.m.ertman@intel.com>, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>, Shiraz Saleem <shiraz.saleem@intel.com>, David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, Leon Romanovsky <leonro@nvidia.com>, Parav Pandit <parav@mellanox.com> Subject: Re: [resend/standalone PATCH v4] Add auxiliary bus support Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 18:03:10 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20201218180310.GD5333@sirena.org.uk> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20201218162817.GX552508@nvidia.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4230 bytes --] On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 12:28:17PM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 03:52:04PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:08:54AM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > > I thought the recent LWN article summed it up nicely, auxillary bus is > > > for gluing to subsystems together using a driver specific software API > > > to connect to the HW, MFD is for splitting a physical HW into disjoint > > > regions of HW. > > This conflicts with the statements from Greg about not using the > > platform bus for things that aren't memory mapped or "direct firmware", > > a large proportion of MFD subfunctions are neither at least in so far as > > I can understand what direct firmware means. > I assume MFD will keep existing and it will somehow stop using > platform device for the children it builds. If it's not supposed to use platform devices so I'm assuming that the intention is that it should use aux devices, otherwise presumably it'd be making some new clone of the platform bus but I've not seen anyone suggesting this. > That doesn't mean MFD must use aux device, so I don't see what you > mean by conflicts? I was excluding the possibility that we have to make a third bus which clones platform bus which nobody has been visibly suggesting. > If someone has a PCI device and they want to split it up, they should > choose between aux device and MFD (assuming MFD gets fixed, as Greg > has basically blanket NAK'd adding more of them to MFD as is) It is unclear to me how one is intended to choose between these approaches, especially for systems that have a range of subdevices with a range of characteristics. > > To be honest I don't find the LWN article clarifies things particularly > > here, the rationale appears to involve some misconceptions about what > > MFDs look like. It looks like it assumes that MFD functions have > > physically separate register sets for example which is not a reliable > > feature of MFDs, nor is the assumption that there's no shared > > functionality which appears to be there. It also appears to assume that > I think the MFD cell model is probably the deciding feature. If that > cell description scheme suites the device, and it is very HW focused, > then MFD is probably the answer. > The places I see aux device being used are a terrible fit for the cell > idea. If there are MFD drivers that are awkardly crammed into that > cell description then maybe they should be aux devices? When you say the MFD cell model it's not clear what you mean - I *think* you're referring to the idea of the subdevices getting all the information they need to talk to the hardware from the device resources. That's actually relatively uncommon with I2C/SPI MFDs, usually there's at least some element of just knowing what's going on and the mfd_cells are to some extent just a list of things to register rather than a model of anything. Look at something like wm8994 for example - the subdevices just know which addresses in the device I2C/SPI regmap to work with but some of them have interrupts passed through to them (and could potentially also have separate subdevices for clocks and pinctrl). These subdevices are not memory mapped, not enumerated by firmware and the hardware has indistinct separation of functions in the register map compared to how Linux models the chips. > > > Maybe there is some overlap, but if you want to add HW representations > > > to the general auxillary device then I think you are using it for the > > > wrong thing. > > Even for the narrowest use case for auxiliary devices that I can think > > of I think the assumption that nobody will ever design something which > > can wire an interrupt intended to be serviced by a subfunction is a bit > > optimistic. > mlx5, for example, uses interrupts but an aux device is not assigned > an exclusive MSI interrupt list. > These devices have a very dynamic interrupt scheme, pre-partitioning > the MSI vector table is completely the wrong API. I'm not saying dynamic interrupt schemes or event queues from firmware can't exist, I'm saying not all interrupt schemes are dynamic. 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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-12-18 18:04 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 114+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2020-12-03 0:54 [resend/standalone PATCH v4] Add auxiliary bus support Dan Williams 2020-12-03 0:54 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-03 15:06 ` Greg KH 2020-12-03 15:06 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 2:33 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-04 2:33 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-04 3:37 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-04 3:37 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-03 15:07 ` Greg KH 2020-12-03 15:07 ` Greg KH 2020-12-03 15:55 ` Leon Romanovsky 2020-12-03 15:55 ` Leon Romanovsky 2020-12-04 11:42 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:42 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:43 ` [PATCH 1/3] driver core: auxiliary bus: move slab.h from include file Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:43 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:44 ` [PATCH 2/3] driver core: auxiliary bus: make remove function return void Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:44 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:44 ` [PATCH 3/3] driver core: auxiliary bus: minor coding style tweaks Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:44 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:48 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:48 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:49 ` [PATCH v2 " Greg KH 2020-12-04 11:49 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 12:32 ` [resend/standalone PATCH v4] Add auxiliary bus support Leon Romanovsky 2020-12-04 12:32 ` Leon Romanovsky 2020-12-04 12:43 ` Parav Pandit 2020-12-04 12:43 ` Parav Pandit 2020-12-04 12:59 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 12:59 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 17:10 ` Ranjani Sridharan 2020-12-04 17:10 ` Ranjani Sridharan 2020-12-05 9:02 ` Greg KH 2020-12-05 9:02 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 16:41 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-04 16:41 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-05 15:51 ` Greg KH 2020-12-05 15:51 ` Greg KH 2020-12-17 21:19 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-17 21:19 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-18 2:39 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-18 2:39 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-18 14:20 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 14:20 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 7:10 ` Greg KH 2020-12-18 7:10 ` Greg KH 2020-12-18 13:17 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 13:17 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 13:46 ` Lee Jones 2020-12-18 13:46 ` Lee Jones 2020-12-18 14:08 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 14:08 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 15:52 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 15:52 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 16:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 16:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 17:15 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-18 17:15 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-18 18:03 ` Mark Brown [this message] 2020-12-18 18:03 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 18:41 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 18:41 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 19:09 ` Lee Jones 2020-12-18 19:09 ` Lee Jones 2020-12-18 20:14 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 20:14 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 20:32 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 20:32 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-18 20:58 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 20:58 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 21:16 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-18 21:16 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-18 22:36 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-18 22:36 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-18 23:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-18 23:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2020-12-19 0:22 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-19 0:22 ` Alexandre Belloni 2020-12-21 18:51 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-21 18:51 ` Mark Brown 2021-01-04 18:08 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-04 18:08 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-04 21:19 ` Mark Brown 2021-01-04 21:19 ` Mark Brown 2021-01-05 0:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 0:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 0:51 ` Dan Williams 2021-01-05 0:51 ` Dan Williams 2021-01-05 1:53 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 1:53 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 3:12 ` Dan Williams 2021-01-05 3:12 ` Dan Williams 2021-01-05 12:49 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 12:49 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 13:42 ` Mark Brown 2021-01-05 13:42 ` Mark Brown 2021-01-05 14:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 14:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-01-05 15:47 ` Mark Brown 2021-01-05 15:47 ` Mark Brown 2020-12-04 12:35 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 12:35 ` Greg KH 2020-12-04 12:54 ` Leon Romanovsky 2020-12-04 12:54 ` Leon Romanovsky 2020-12-04 16:25 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-12-04 16:25 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-12-04 17:57 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-04 17:57 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-04 18:05 ` Ranjani Sridharan 2020-12-04 18:05 ` Ranjani Sridharan 2020-12-06 0:24 ` David Ahern 2020-12-06 0:24 ` David Ahern 2020-12-06 0:32 ` Dan Williams 2020-12-06 0:32 ` Dan Williams
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