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From: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Eric Sandeen <sandeen@redhat.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	Fernando Luis V?zquez Cao <fernando@oss.ntt.co.jp>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	fernando@kic.ac.jp, Ric Wheeler <rwheeler@redhat.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: vfs: Add MS_FLUSHONFSYNC mount flag
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:42:11 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <49A1E2D3.9000304@garzik.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090222231914.GI17066@mit.edu>

Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 03:15:33PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
>> Sounds like posix violation to
>> me... '/sys/fsync_does_not_really_sync'?
> 
> It's as much a Posix violation as noatime.  :-)
> 
>> Perhaps it is better done at glibc level? Environment variables
>> already mostly have semantics you want.....
> 
> Environment variables own't allow us to switch fsync's on and off
> while the process is running, so that the system can run "safe" while
> it is on AC mains, but "low power" when on battery.

Overall, for each filesystem, we really should _default_ to a safe mode 
where fsync(2), fdatasync(2), sync_file_range(2) and transaction commits 
are guaranteed to be committed to stable storage -- i.e. SYNC CACHE / 
FLUSH CACHE, a forced unit access (FUA) bit, or guarantee that the 
underlying storage has disabled write-back caching.

Correctness should come before performance.  Linux has not had 
credibility here, in the ATA+ext[23] space at least, and it is embarrassing.

Modern SATA and SCSI disks can do tagged command queueing with the FUA 
bit, which does a lot to mitigate the performance loss seen with a less 
capable "FLUSH CACHE + barrier" setup.

	Jeff





  reply	other threads:[~2009-02-22 23:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-01-13 13:14 ext2 + -osync: not as easy as it seems Pavel Machek
2009-01-13 13:45 ` Alan Cox
2009-01-13 14:03   ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-13 14:07     ` Jens Axboe
2009-01-13 14:26       ` [PATCH] block: Fix documentation for blkdev_issue_flush() Theodore Ts'o
2009-01-13 14:28         ` Jens Axboe
2009-01-13 14:30     ` ext2 + -osync: not as easy as it seems Jan Kara
2009-01-13 14:46       ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-14  3:37       ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-14 10:35         ` Jan Kara
2009-01-14 13:21           ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-14 14:05             ` Jan Kara
2009-01-14 14:08               ` Jens Axboe
2009-01-14 14:34                 ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-14 14:43                   ` Jens Axboe
2009-02-12 16:43                 ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-16 12:09                   ` Jens Axboe
2009-01-14 14:12               ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-14 14:37                 ` Jan Kara
2009-01-14 16:59                   ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-15 12:06                     ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-15 23:45                       ` Jan Kara
2009-01-16 12:31                         ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-16 13:55                           ` ext3: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-16 16:30                             ` Jan Kara
2009-01-17  9:47                               ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-17 10:00                                 ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-19 12:03                                   ` Jan Kara
2009-01-28  9:45                                     ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-28  9:55                                       ` Jan Kara
2009-02-12 10:33                                         ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:35                                           ` vfs: Improve readability off mount flag definitins by using offsets Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:36                                           ` vfs: Add MS_FLUSHONFSYNC mount flag Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 17:13                                             ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-12 17:29                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2009-02-14 15:36                                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-02-15  7:23                                                   ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-15 22:54                                                     ` Theodore Tso
2009-02-16  4:29                                                       ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-16  7:47                                                       ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-16  7:47                                                         ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 21:23                                               ` Jan Kara
2009-02-12 21:30                                                 ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-13  1:47                                                   ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-13  6:07                                                     ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-13  2:23                                                   ` Theodore Tso
2009-02-22 14:15                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-22 20:51                                                       ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-22 23:19                                                       ` Theodore Tso
2009-02-22 23:42                                                         ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2009-02-22 23:46                                                           ` Jeff Garzik
2009-02-23  1:23                                                             ` Theodore Tso
2009-02-13  1:14                                               ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-13  6:20                                                 ` Eric Sandeen
2009-02-13 10:36                                                   ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-13 12:20                                                   ` Dave Chinner
2009-02-13 16:29                                                     ` Fernando Luis Vazquez Cao
2009-02-14 11:24                                                       ` Dave Chinner
2009-02-14 13:03                                                         ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-14 13:19                                                           ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-15  2:48                                                           ` Dave Chinner
2009-02-15  7:11                                                             ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:37                                           ` util-linux: Add new mount options flushonfsync and noflushonfsync to mount Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:38                                           ` util-linux: Add explanation for new mount options flushonfsync and noflushonfsync to mount(8) man page Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:38                                           ` block: Add block_flush_device() Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:39                                           ` ext3: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-12 10:40                                           ` ext4: " Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-15 22:46                                             ` Theodore Tso
2009-02-16  7:09                                               ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-16  7:25                                                 ` [PATCH 1/3] block: Add block_flush_device() Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-16  7:29                                                 ` [2/3] ext3: call block_flush_device() on fsync Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-02-16  7:31                                                 ` [PATCH 3/3] ext4: " Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-16 13:59                           ` ext4: call blkdev_issue_flush " Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2009-01-13 14:42   ` ext2 + -osync: not as easy as it seems Pavel Machek

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