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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Solar Designer <solar@openwall.com>
Cc: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Vasiliy Kulikov <segoon@openwall.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com, x86@kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	Will Drewry <wad@chromium.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] x86: restrict pid namespaces to 32 or 64 bit syscalls
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:59:56 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4E496CAC.3030103@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110815185114.GA20115@openwall.com>

On 08/15/2011 11:51 AM, Solar Designer wrote:
> I agree with you that i386 vs x86-64 vs x32 is one axis and syscall
> number is another axis.

They are not.  ABI is ONE SUBSET OF SYSCALL NUMBERS.

> Per-syscall restrictions are also useful, but primarily at a different
> level - I'd expect them to be used in specific programs, such as Chrome
> and vsftpd.  Those programs may also want to limit themselves to a
> certain type of syscalls (that is, on the i386 vs x86-64 vs x32 axis),
> thereby making use of both features at once.  Or they might even have to
> do that, depending on how we implement the syscall restrictions.
> 
> Per your suggestion, if I understand correctly, any task that wants to
> restrict itself on the i386 vs x86-64 vs x32 axis will have TIF_SECCOMP
> set and will incur calls into __secure_computing().  This is unnecessary
> overhead for the case when we have a restriction over this axis only,
> without per-syscall restrictions.  Vasiliy's patch avoids such overhead.

There is really no bloody difference between i386 vs x86-64 and, say,
sys_oldstat versus sys_stat, or anything else along those lines.
Putting in a bunch of ad hoc facilities because of semi-plausible
performance wins rather than building a sane filtering facility which
can be optimized as a single path is ridiculous.

	-hpa

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Solar Designer <solar@openwall.com>
Cc: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Vasiliy Kulikov <segoon@openwall.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com, x86@kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	Will Drewry <wad@chromium.org>
Subject: [kernel-hardening] Re: [RFC] x86: restrict pid namespaces to 32 or 64 bit syscalls
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:59:56 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4E496CAC.3030103@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110815185114.GA20115@openwall.com>

On 08/15/2011 11:51 AM, Solar Designer wrote:
> I agree with you that i386 vs x86-64 vs x32 is one axis and syscall
> number is another axis.

They are not.  ABI is ONE SUBSET OF SYSCALL NUMBERS.

> Per-syscall restrictions are also useful, but primarily at a different
> level - I'd expect them to be used in specific programs, such as Chrome
> and vsftpd.  Those programs may also want to limit themselves to a
> certain type of syscalls (that is, on the i386 vs x86-64 vs x32 axis),
> thereby making use of both features at once.  Or they might even have to
> do that, depending on how we implement the syscall restrictions.
> 
> Per your suggestion, if I understand correctly, any task that wants to
> restrict itself on the i386 vs x86-64 vs x32 axis will have TIF_SECCOMP
> set and will incur calls into __secure_computing().  This is unnecessary
> overhead for the case when we have a restriction over this axis only,
> without per-syscall restrictions.  Vasiliy's patch avoids such overhead.

There is really no bloody difference between i386 vs x86-64 and, say,
sys_oldstat versus sys_stat, or anything else along those lines.
Putting in a bunch of ad hoc facilities because of semi-plausible
performance wins rather than building a sane filtering facility which
can be optimized as a single path is ridiculous.

	-hpa

  reply	other threads:[~2011-08-15 19:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-08-12 15:03 [RFC] x86: restrict pid namespaces to 32 or 64 bit syscalls Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-12 15:03 ` [kernel-hardening] " Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-12 20:08 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-12 20:08   ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-13  6:22   ` Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-13  6:22     ` [kernel-hardening] " Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-13 15:41     ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-13 15:41       ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-13 16:32       ` Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-14  9:09         ` Solar Designer
2011-08-14  9:09           ` [kernel-hardening] " Solar Designer
2011-08-18 14:40         ` [RFC v2] " Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-18 14:40           ` [kernel-hardening] " Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-14  2:38       ` [RFC] " Andi Kleen
2011-08-14  2:38         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andi Kleen
2011-08-14  5:08         ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-14  5:08           ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-14  9:20           ` Solar Designer
2011-08-14  9:20             ` [kernel-hardening] " Solar Designer
2011-08-14 14:48             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-14 14:48               ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-14 15:27               ` Andi Kleen
2011-08-14 15:27                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Andi Kleen
2011-08-14 15:36                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-14 15:36                   ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-14 23:29                   ` James Morris
2011-08-14 23:29                     ` [kernel-hardening] " James Morris
2011-08-15  0:18                   ` Andi Kleen
2011-08-15  0:18                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Andi Kleen
2011-08-15  0:32                     ` Will Drewry
2011-08-15  0:58                       ` Andi Kleen
     [not found]                 ` <20110814152729.GU5782-qrUzlfsMFqo/4alezvVtWx2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
2011-08-14 16:08                   ` Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-14 16:08                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-14 16:08                     ` Vasiliy Kulikov
2011-08-15 18:51               ` Solar Designer
2011-08-15 18:51                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Solar Designer
2011-08-15 18:59                 ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2011-08-15 18:59                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-15 20:14                   ` Solar Designer
2011-08-15 20:14                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Solar Designer
2011-08-15 20:27                     ` Andi Kleen
2011-08-15 20:27                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Andi Kleen
2011-08-15 20:48                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-15 20:48                       ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-15 22:13                     ` Eric Paris
2011-08-15 22:13                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Eric Paris
2011-08-16  1:18                       ` Andi Kleen
2011-08-16  1:18                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andi Kleen

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