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From: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
To: rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Joel Fernandes, Google" <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	paulmck <paulmck@linux.ibm.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] Fix: trace sched switch start/stop racy updates
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 10:27:39 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <621310481.23873.1566052059389.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190816151541.6864ff30@oasis.local.home>

----- On Aug 16, 2019, at 3:15 PM, rostedt rostedt@goodmis.org wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 13:19:20 -0400 (EDT)
> Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote:
> 
>> ----- On Aug 16, 2019, at 12:25 PM, rostedt rostedt@goodmis.org wrote:
>> 
>> > On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:26:43 -0400 Mathieu Desnoyers
>> > <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote:
>> >   
>> [...]
>> >> 
>> >> Also, write and read to/from those variables should be done with
>> >> WRITE_ONCE() and READ_ONCE(), given that those are read within tracing
>> >> probes without holding the sched_register_mutex.
>> >>   
>> > 
>> > I understand the READ_ONCE() but is the WRITE_ONCE() truly necessary?
>> > It's done while holding the mutex. It's not that critical of a path,
>> > and makes the code look ugly.
>> 
>> The update is done while holding the mutex, but the read-side does not
>> hold that mutex, so it can observe the intermediate state caused by
>> store-tearing or invented stores which can be generated by the compiler
>> on the update-side.
>> 
>> Please refer to the following LWN article:
>> 
>> https://lwn.net/Articles/793253/
>> 
>> Sections:
>> - "Store tearing"
>> - "Invented stores"
>> 
>> Arguably, based on that article, store tearing is only observed in the
>> wild for constants (which is not the case here), and invented stores
>> seem to require specific code patterns. But I wonder why we would ever want to
>> pair a fragile non-volatile store with a READ_ONCE() ? Considering the pain
>> associated to reproduce and hunt down this kind of issue in the wild, I would
>> be tempted to enforce that any READ_ONCE() operating on a variable would either
>> need to be paired with WRITE_ONCE() or with atomic operations, so those can
>> eventually be validated by static code checkers and code sanitizers.
> 
> My issue is that this is just a case to decide if we should cache a
> comm or not. It's a helper, nothing more. There's no guarantee that
> something will get cached.

I get your point wrt WRITE_ONCE(): since it's a cache it should not have
user-visible effects if a temporary incorrect value is observed. Well in
reality, it's not a cache: if the lookup fails, it returns "<...>" instead,
so cache lookup failure ends up not providing any useful data in the trace.
Let's assume this is a known and documented tracer limitation.

However, wrt READ_ONCE(), things are different. The variable read ends up
being used to control various branches in the code, and the compiler could
decide to re-fetch the variable (with a different state), and therefore
cause _some_ of the branches to be inconsistent. See
tracing_record_taskinfo_sched_switch() and tracing_record_taskinfo() @flags
parameter.

AFAIU the current code should not generate any out-of-bound writes in case of
re-fetch, but no comment in there documents how fragile this is.

Thanks,

Mathieu

-- 
Mathieu Desnoyers
EfficiOS Inc.
http://www.efficios.com

  reply	other threads:[~2019-08-17 14:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-05-18 10:29 WARNING in tracepoint_probe_register_prio (3) syzbot
2019-08-16  0:11 ` syzbot
2019-08-16 14:26   ` [PATCH 1/1] Fix: trace sched switch start/stop racy updates Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-16 16:25     ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-16 16:48       ` Valentin Schneider
2019-08-16 17:04         ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-16 17:41           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-16 19:18             ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-16 19:19             ` Alan Stern
2019-08-16 20:44               ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-16 20:49                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-16 20:57                   ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-16 22:27                     ` Valentin Schneider
2019-08-16 22:57                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-17  1:41                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-17  4:52                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-17  8:28                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-17  8:44                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-17 15:02                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-17 20:03                                 ` Valentin Schneider
2019-08-17 23:00                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-19 10:34                                     ` Valentin Schneider
2019-08-17 22:28                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-20 14:01                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-20 20:31                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-20 20:39                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-20 20:52                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-16 21:04                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-17  1:36                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-17  2:13                       ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-17 14:40                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-17 15:26                           ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-17 15:55                             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-17 16:40                               ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-17 22:06                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-17  8:08                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-20 13:56                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-20 20:29                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-21 10:32                             ` Will Deacon
2019-08-21 13:23                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-21 13:32                                 ` Will Deacon
2019-08-21 13:56                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-21 16:22                                     ` Will Deacon
2019-08-21 15:33                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-21 15:48                                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-21 16:14                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-21 19:03                                     ` Joel Fernandes
2019-09-09  6:21                           ` Herbert Xu
2019-08-16 20:49                 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-16 20:59                   ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-17  1:25                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-18  9:15                   ` stable markup was " Pavel Machek
2019-08-16 17:19       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-16 19:15         ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-17 14:27           ` Mathieu Desnoyers [this message]
2019-08-17 15:42             ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-17 15:53               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2019-08-17 16:43                 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-08-16 12:32 ` WARNING in tracepoint_probe_register_prio (3) syzbot
2019-08-16 12:41   ` Sebastian Andrzej Siewior

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