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From: Robin Murphy <robin.murphy-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
To: Tomasz Figa <tfiga-F7+t8E8rja9g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Linux PM <linux-pm-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	David Airlie <airlied-cv59FeDIM0c@public.gmane.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw-LthD3rsA81gm4RdzfppkhA@public.gmane.org>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	"list-Y9sIeH5OGRo@public.gmane.org:IOMMU DRIVERS"
	<iommu-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>,
	dri-devel
	<dri-devel-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List
	<linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Rob Herring <robh+dt-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>,
	Greg KH
	<gregkh-hQyY1W1yCW8ekmWlsbkhG0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>,
	freedreno
	<freedreno-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-arm-msm
	<linux-arm-msm-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 6/6] drm/msm: iommu: Replace runtime calls with runtime suppliers
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:14:45 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7406f1ce-c2c9-a6bd-2886-5a34de45add6@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAFQd5A9B-di9svtiJbvk2hz1U1xo61rTY5vt6AD+KR5iMcG-A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>

On 15/02/18 04:17, Tomasz Figa wrote:
[...]
>> Could you elaborate on what kind of locking you are concerned about?
>> As I explained before, the normally happening fast path would lock
>> dev->power_lock only for the brief moment of incrementing the runtime
>> PM usage counter.
> 
> My bad, that's not even it.
> 
> The atomic usage counter is incremented beforehands, without any
> locking [1] and the spinlock is acquired only for the sake of
> validating that device's runtime PM state remained valid indeed [2],
> which would be the case in the fast path of the same driver doing two
> mappings in parallel, with the master powered on (and so the SMMU,
> through device links; if master was not powered on already, powering
> on the SMMU is unavoidable anyway and it would add much more latency
> than the spinlock itself).

We now have no locking at all in the map path, and only a per-domain 
lock around TLB sync in unmap which is unfortunately necessary for 
correctness; the latter isn't too terrible, since in "serious" hardware 
it should only be serialising a few cpus serving the same device against 
each other (e.g. for multiple queues on a single NIC).

Putting in a global lock which serialises *all* concurrent map and unmap 
calls for *all* unrelated devices makes things worse. Period. Even if 
the lock itself were held for the minimum possible time, i.e. trivially 
"spin_lock(&lock); spin_unlock(&lock)", the cost of repeatedly bouncing 
that one cache line around between 96 CPUs across two sockets is not 
negligible.

> [1] http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v4.16-rc1/source/drivers/base/power/runtime.c#L1028
> [2] http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v4.16-rc1/source/drivers/base/power/runtime.c#L613
> 
> In any case, I can't imagine this working with V4L2 or anything else
> relying on any memory management more generic than calling IOMMU API
> directly from the driver, with the IOMMU device having runtime PM
> enabled, but without managing the runtime PM from the IOMMU driver's
> callbacks that need access to the hardware. As I mentioned before,
> only the IOMMU driver knows when exactly the real hardware access
> needs to be done (e.g. Rockchip/Exynos don't need to do that for
> map/unmap if the power is down, but some implementations of SMMU with
> TLB powered separately might need to do so).

It's worth noting that Exynos and Rockchip are relatively small 
self-contained IP blocks integrated closely with the interfaces of their 
relevant master devices; SMMU is an architecture, implementations of 
which may be large, distributed, and have complex and wildly differing 
internal topologies. As such, it's a lot harder to make 
hardware-specific assumptions and/or be correct for all possible cases.

Don't get me wrong, I do ultimately agree that the IOMMU driver is the 
only agent who ultimately knows what calls are going to be necessary for 
whatever operation it's performing on its own hardware*; it's just that 
for SMMU it needs to be implemented in a way that has zero impact on the 
cases where it doesn't matter, because it's not viable to specialise 
that driver for any particular IP implementation/use-case.

Robin.


*AFAICS it still makes some sense to have the get_suppliers option as 
well, though - the IOMMU driver does what it needs for correctness 
internally, but the external consumer doing something non-standard can 
can grab and hold the link around multiple calls to short-circuit that.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@arm.com>
To: Tomasz Figa <tfiga@chromium.org>
Cc: Vivek Gautam <vivek.gautam@codeaurora.org>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	Rob Clark <robdclark@gmail.com>,
	"list@263.net:IOMMU DRIVERS" <iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org>, Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	devicetree@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux PM <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	dri-devel <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	freedreno <freedreno@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	David Airlie <airlied@linux.ie>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@codeaurora.org>,
	linux-arm-msm <linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org>,
	jcrouse@codeaurora.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 6/6] drm/msm: iommu: Replace runtime calls with runtime suppliers
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:14:45 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7406f1ce-c2c9-a6bd-2886-5a34de45add6@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAFQd5A9B-di9svtiJbvk2hz1U1xo61rTY5vt6AD+KR5iMcG-A@mail.gmail.com>

On 15/02/18 04:17, Tomasz Figa wrote:
[...]
>> Could you elaborate on what kind of locking you are concerned about?
>> As I explained before, the normally happening fast path would lock
>> dev->power_lock only for the brief moment of incrementing the runtime
>> PM usage counter.
> 
> My bad, that's not even it.
> 
> The atomic usage counter is incremented beforehands, without any
> locking [1] and the spinlock is acquired only for the sake of
> validating that device's runtime PM state remained valid indeed [2],
> which would be the case in the fast path of the same driver doing two
> mappings in parallel, with the master powered on (and so the SMMU,
> through device links; if master was not powered on already, powering
> on the SMMU is unavoidable anyway and it would add much more latency
> than the spinlock itself).

We now have no locking at all in the map path, and only a per-domain 
lock around TLB sync in unmap which is unfortunately necessary for 
correctness; the latter isn't too terrible, since in "serious" hardware 
it should only be serialising a few cpus serving the same device against 
each other (e.g. for multiple queues on a single NIC).

Putting in a global lock which serialises *all* concurrent map and unmap 
calls for *all* unrelated devices makes things worse. Period. Even if 
the lock itself were held for the minimum possible time, i.e. trivially 
"spin_lock(&lock); spin_unlock(&lock)", the cost of repeatedly bouncing 
that one cache line around between 96 CPUs across two sockets is not 
negligible.

> [1] http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v4.16-rc1/source/drivers/base/power/runtime.c#L1028
> [2] http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v4.16-rc1/source/drivers/base/power/runtime.c#L613
> 
> In any case, I can't imagine this working with V4L2 or anything else
> relying on any memory management more generic than calling IOMMU API
> directly from the driver, with the IOMMU device having runtime PM
> enabled, but without managing the runtime PM from the IOMMU driver's
> callbacks that need access to the hardware. As I mentioned before,
> only the IOMMU driver knows when exactly the real hardware access
> needs to be done (e.g. Rockchip/Exynos don't need to do that for
> map/unmap if the power is down, but some implementations of SMMU with
> TLB powered separately might need to do so).

It's worth noting that Exynos and Rockchip are relatively small 
self-contained IP blocks integrated closely with the interfaces of their 
relevant master devices; SMMU is an architecture, implementations of 
which may be large, distributed, and have complex and wildly differing 
internal topologies. As such, it's a lot harder to make 
hardware-specific assumptions and/or be correct for all possible cases.

Don't get me wrong, I do ultimately agree that the IOMMU driver is the 
only agent who ultimately knows what calls are going to be necessary for 
whatever operation it's performing on its own hardware*; it's just that 
for SMMU it needs to be implemented in a way that has zero impact on the 
cases where it doesn't matter, because it's not viable to specialise 
that driver for any particular IP implementation/use-case.

Robin.


*AFAICS it still makes some sense to have the get_suppliers option as 
well, though - the IOMMU driver does what it needs for correctness 
internally, but the external consumer doing something non-standard can 
can grab and hold the link around multiple calls to short-circuit that.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-02-15 17:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-02-07 10:31 [PATCH v7 0/6] iommu/arm-smmu: Add runtime pm/sleep support Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31 ` Vivek Gautam
     [not found] ` <1517999482-17317-1-git-send-email-vivek.gautam-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-07 10:31   ` [PATCH v7 1/6] base: power: runtime: Export pm_runtime_get/put_suppliers Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31     ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13  7:44     ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13  7:44       ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]       ` <CAAFQd5BmroRf-C8dQkvTKHWK1psGnNi1t7g-q=Xce6KjrGTsdw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-13 12:00         ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-13 12:00           ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-13 12:54           ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13 12:54             ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13 13:37             ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-13 13:37               ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-07 10:31   ` [PATCH v7 2/6] iommu/arm-smmu: Add pm_runtime/sleep ops Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31     ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13  8:03     ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13  8:03       ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]       ` <CAAFQd5B2u8RL-tdB3qgPxVUcXnsBSEhXRBZWxqO-w6rYKAiOtg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-13 10:25         ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13 10:25           ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14  3:45           ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-14  3:45             ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-07 10:31   ` [PATCH v7 3/6] iommu/arm-smmu: Invoke pm_runtime during probe, add/remove device Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31     ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13  8:24     ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13  8:24       ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]       ` <CAAFQd5DxYhkK61VDAesby6bT+FtG2nqsbHQRvxkhrsSS0KWtog-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-13 12:57         ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-13 12:57           ` Robin Murphy
     [not found]           ` <906051dd-8898-ec6f-5ad4-3f37716292cf-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-13 13:52             ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13 13:52               ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]               ` <CAAFQd5DJtQYPg5S3Ep2bK27+D5rQiKuA-uPfMDUon3FudmGF0w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  8:24                 ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14  8:24                   ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14  8:28       ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14  8:28         ` Vivek Gautam
     [not found]     ` <1517999482-17317-4-git-send-email-vivek.gautam-sgV2jX0FEOL9JmXXK+q4OQ@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-22 23:52       ` Jordan Crouse
2018-02-22 23:52         ` Jordan Crouse
     [not found]         ` <20180222235200.GA18743-9PYrDHPZ2Orvke4nUoYGnHL1okKdlPRT@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-23 10:36           ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-23 10:36             ` Vivek Gautam
     [not found]             ` <CAFp+6iGQ5Vckui14Jb=V0uk_Pjes95hOxo=KBijR4yxPeDDzFg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-23 15:40               ` [Freedreno] " Jordan Crouse
2018-02-23 15:40                 ` Jordan Crouse
     [not found]                 ` <20180223154048.GB18743-9PYrDHPZ2Orvke4nUoYGnHL1okKdlPRT@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-23 17:43                   ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-23 17:43                     ` [Freedreno] " Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31   ` [PATCH v7 4/6] iommu/arm-smmu: Add the device_link between masters and smmu Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31     ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13  8:31     ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13  8:31       ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]       ` <CAAFQd5BQAs9=N27_Z0pJNSrndFY3vFin2KBP44UtiW+tMXy5nQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-13 10:14         ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13 10:14           ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31   ` [PATCH v7 5/6] iommu/arm-smmu: Add support for qcom, smmu-v2 variant Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31     ` [PATCH v7 5/6] iommu/arm-smmu: Add support for qcom,smmu-v2 variant Vivek Gautam
2018-02-09 10:57     ` [PATCH v8 " Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13  8:57       ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13  8:57         ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-07 10:31   ` [PATCH v7 6/6] drm/msm: iommu: Replace runtime calls with runtime suppliers Vivek Gautam
2018-02-07 10:31     ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-13  9:10     ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-13  9:10       ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]       ` <CAAFQd5AjopiX6fDgD+mO+-+d0yj-swEnVCNvccWRBSMO+XVJkA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-13 16:42         ` Jordan Crouse
2018-02-13 16:42           ` Jordan Crouse
2018-02-14  3:31           ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]             ` <CAAFQd5CjQRFATfh-mRQv5J=WefYuxBVTkk=Ju09FoqA-Or5Cvg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14 15:48               ` Jordan Crouse
2018-02-14 15:48                 ` Jordan Crouse
     [not found]                 ` <20180214154850.GA25422-9PYrDHPZ2Orvke4nUoYGnHL1okKdlPRT@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14 16:12                   ` [Freedreno] " Rob Clark
2018-02-14 16:12                     ` Rob Clark
2018-02-15  4:09                     ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-15  4:09                       ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                       ` <CAAFQd5C-9mbd3hDSvz10a1oiO0--FT-L4EpsAYcALxxUvk6Fjg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-15 14:14                         ` Rob Clark
2018-02-15 14:14                           ` [Freedreno] " Rob Clark
2018-02-13 18:03         ` Rob Clark
2018-02-13 18:03           ` Rob Clark
2018-02-14  1:59           ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-14  1:59             ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]             ` <CAAFQd5BKRumpEfAKNF_RKS-ZZ8D671DfOz4vB2+w1SV3aG9NxQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  2:13               ` Rob Clark
2018-02-14  2:13                 ` Rob Clark
     [not found]                 ` <CAF6AEGuNZJKtwGZ5mLfqNND2jtU+HYM11UONfAtVTzoM0QVpdg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  3:01                   ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-14  3:01                     ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                     ` <CAAFQd5BZJ1G0RG32hYErNzPRvisBhhiSNCBsjbzfm0WzO=DnsQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  4:17                       ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14  4:17                         ` Vivek Gautam
     [not found]                         ` <CAFp+6iHaycK=CcE1S15EeuMkaw8LnW0ebptU0hM6tUtWdeEOtA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  5:38                           ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-14  5:38                             ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                             ` <CAAFQd5Afj-Bj+3wHwmF2tT7y=46EsYEtO_mXfY6stXBgHutEUg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  9:13                               ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14  9:13                                 ` Vivek Gautam
     [not found]                                 ` <CAFp+6iGX6pr+MdPSSHHG=qOnhHky_8OHiDqAcJ9UudEUv=JMHg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14  9:16                                   ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-14  9:16                                     ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                                     ` <CAAFQd5DiwAugGnPOTw0+XrEfef9x-n-vx59JFuXpNawjiXHwCw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14 10:33                                       ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-14 10:33                                         ` Vivek Gautam
     [not found]                                         ` <CAFp+6iEW0faeHDfzN_F1bRrHGcVo3sPCk4HSY=t9dnEvHkDkYw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-14 16:03                                           ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-14 16:03                                             ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-15  3:17                                             ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                                               ` <CAAFQd5AmG1zSm+CouXOCJbs8SNGFk1-RqfU1nWGjMGJMB-qfvw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-15  4:17                                                 ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-15  4:17                                                   ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                                                   ` <CAAFQd5A9B-di9svtiJbvk2hz1U1xo61rTY5vt6AD+KR5iMcG-A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-15 17:14                                                     ` Robin Murphy [this message]
2018-02-15 17:14                                                       ` Robin Murphy
     [not found]                                                       ` <7406f1ce-c2c9-a6bd-2886-5a34de45add6-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-16  0:13                                                         ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-16  0:13                                                           ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                                                           ` <CAAFQd5DkLtq2w00=Zd4sMDB4QOWqi7R-zgydECJXLdTmaHty+g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-22  8:13                                                             ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-22  8:13                                                               ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                                                               ` <CAAFQd5CQoDqunAunwoVo7W=QXa=ET=eJ2s_j9j+3YgAR2EGgCg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-22 13:30                                                                 ` Rob Clark
2018-02-22 13:30                                                                   ` [Freedreno] " Rob Clark
2018-02-22 13:45                                                             ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-22 13:45                                                               ` Robin Murphy
2018-02-22 14:12                                                               ` Tomasz Figa
2018-02-22 14:12                                                                 ` Tomasz Figa
     [not found]                                                                 ` <CAAFQd5CzOJ0oS8LLcKP-DgyXSXgzafg5CWPAvnR-QDPS+DZAUg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-02-22 17:24                                                                   ` Vivek Gautam
2018-02-22 17:24                                                                     ` Vivek Gautam

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