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From: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@linux.intel.com>
To: Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
Cc: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org,
	marex@denx.de, dsd@laptop.org,
	Andrzej Hajda <a.hajda@samsung.com>,
	airlied@linux.ie, masahiroy@kernel.org,
	Nicolas Pitre <nico@fluxnic.net>,
	Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@mellanox.com>,
	thellstrom@vmware.com, haojian.zhuang@gmail.com,
	geert@linux-m68k.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org,
	Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>,
	kieran.bingham+renesas@ideasonboard.com,
	linux-graphics-maintainer@vmware.com,
	Laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com, jfrederich@gmail.com,
	robert.jarzmik@free.fr, daniel@zonque.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 7/8] fbdev: rework backlight dependencies
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:02:33 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871roi37qe.fsf@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200417170444.GB30483@ravnborg.org>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org> wrote:
> Hi Arnd.
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 05:55:52PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
>> Rather than having CONFIG_FB_BACKLIGHT select CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE,
>> make any driver that needs it have a dependency on the class device
>> being available, to prevent circular dependencies.
>> 
>> This is the same way that the backlight is already treated for the DRM
>> subsystem.
>
> I am not happy with the direction of this patch.
> It is not easy to understand that one has to enable backlight to
> be allowed to select a display or an fbdev driver.

Arguably that is a problem in Kconfig, and that applies to *all*
dependencies everywhere. It isn't something new to this patch.

For example, in the context of this patch you have:

  config HT16K33
	 tristate "Holtek Ht16K33 LED controller with keyscan"
	 depends on FB && OF && I2C && INPUT
 +	depends on BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE

The same thing could be said about FB and OF and IC2 and INPUT for
HT16K33, right? Why would *backlight* be the tipping point that makes
this difficult to understand?

Yeah, I agree it's not straightforward, but I think depends is the right
choice, not select.

The effort for making this easier to understand should be directed at
the various menuconfig tools to better highlight the dependencies that
should be enabled to let you enable other options.

> How about somthing like this:

I think this is a hack in Kconfig files that should really be fixed in
the Kconfig tooling instead. IMHO Kconfig should be as simple a
description of the dependencies as possible, not so much a UI language.

FWIW the patch is

Acked-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>

BR,
Jani.



-- 
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@linux.intel.com>
To: Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
Cc: marex@denx.de, Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>,
	linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dsd@laptop.org,
	Nicolas Pitre <nico@fluxnic.net>,
	airlied@linux.ie, masahiroy@kernel.org, jfrederich@gmail.com,
	Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@mellanox.com>,
	thellstrom@vmware.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org,
	linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrzej Hajda <a.hajda@samsung.com>,
	kieran.bingham+renesas@ideasonboard.com, geert@linux-m68k.org,
	haojian.zhuang@gmail.com, linux-graphics-maintainer@vmware.com,
	robert.jarzmik@free.fr, daniel@zonque.org,
	Laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 7/8] fbdev: rework backlight dependencies
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:02:33 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871roi37qe.fsf@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200417170444.GB30483@ravnborg.org>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org> wrote:
> Hi Arnd.
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 05:55:52PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
>> Rather than having CONFIG_FB_BACKLIGHT select CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE,
>> make any driver that needs it have a dependency on the class device
>> being available, to prevent circular dependencies.
>> 
>> This is the same way that the backlight is already treated for the DRM
>> subsystem.
>
> I am not happy with the direction of this patch.
> It is not easy to understand that one has to enable backlight to
> be allowed to select a display or an fbdev driver.

Arguably that is a problem in Kconfig, and that applies to *all*
dependencies everywhere. It isn't something new to this patch.

For example, in the context of this patch you have:

  config HT16K33
	 tristate "Holtek Ht16K33 LED controller with keyscan"
	 depends on FB && OF && I2C && INPUT
 +	depends on BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE

The same thing could be said about FB and OF and IC2 and INPUT for
HT16K33, right? Why would *backlight* be the tipping point that makes
this difficult to understand?

Yeah, I agree it's not straightforward, but I think depends is the right
choice, not select.

The effort for making this easier to understand should be directed at
the various menuconfig tools to better highlight the dependencies that
should be enabled to let you enable other options.

> How about somthing like this:

I think this is a hack in Kconfig files that should really be fixed in
the Kconfig tooling instead. IMHO Kconfig should be as simple a
description of the dependencies as possible, not so much a UI language.

FWIW the patch is

Acked-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>

BR,
Jani.



-- 
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@linux.intel.com>
To: Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
Cc: marex@denx.de, Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>,
	linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dsd@laptop.org,
	Nicolas Pitre <nico@fluxnic.net>,
	airlied@linux.ie, masahiroy@kernel.org, jfrederich@gmail.com,
	Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@mellanox.com>,
	thellstrom@vmware.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org,
	linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrzej Hajda <a.hajda@samsung.com>,
	kieran.bingham+renesas@ideasonboard.com, geert@linux-m68k.org,
	haojian.zhuang@gmail.com, linux-graphics-maintainer@vmware.com,
	robert.jarzmik@free.fr, daniel@zonque.org,
	Laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 7/8] fbdev: rework backlight dependencies
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:02:33 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871roi37qe.fsf@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200417170444.GB30483@ravnborg.org>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org> wrote:
> Hi Arnd.
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 05:55:52PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
>> Rather than having CONFIG_FB_BACKLIGHT select CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE,
>> make any driver that needs it have a dependency on the class device
>> being available, to prevent circular dependencies.
>> 
>> This is the same way that the backlight is already treated for the DRM
>> subsystem.
>
> I am not happy with the direction of this patch.
> It is not easy to understand that one has to enable backlight to
> be allowed to select a display or an fbdev driver.

Arguably that is a problem in Kconfig, and that applies to *all*
dependencies everywhere. It isn't something new to this patch.

For example, in the context of this patch you have:

  config HT16K33
	 tristate "Holtek Ht16K33 LED controller with keyscan"
	 depends on FB && OF && I2C && INPUT
 +	depends on BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE

The same thing could be said about FB and OF and IC2 and INPUT for
HT16K33, right? Why would *backlight* be the tipping point that makes
this difficult to understand?

Yeah, I agree it's not straightforward, but I think depends is the right
choice, not select.

The effort for making this easier to understand should be directed at
the various menuconfig tools to better highlight the dependencies that
should be enabled to let you enable other options.

> How about somthing like this:

I think this is a hack in Kconfig files that should really be fixed in
the Kconfig tooling instead. IMHO Kconfig should be as simple a
description of the dependencies as possible, not so much a UI language.

FWIW the patch is

Acked-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>

BR,
Jani.



-- 
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center
_______________________________________________
dri-devel mailing list
dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-04-20  8:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-04-17 15:55 [PATCH 0/8] drm, fbdev: rework dependencies Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 1/8] fbdev: w100fb: clean up mach-pxa compile-time dependency Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-18 10:10   ` Robert Jarzmik
2020-04-18 10:10     ` Robert Jarzmik
2020-04-18 10:10     ` Robert Jarzmik
2020-04-18 10:14     ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-18 10:14       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-18 10:14       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 2/8] fbdev/ARM: pxa: avoid selecting CONFIG_FB Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-18 10:18   ` Robert Jarzmik
2020-04-18 10:18     ` Robert Jarzmik
2020-04-18 10:18     ` Robert Jarzmik
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 3/8] fbdev: rework FB_DDC dependencies Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 4/8] drm/rcar: stop using 'imply' for dependencies Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 5/8] drm/vmwgfx: make framebuffer support optional Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-20 12:07   ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-04-20 12:07     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-04-20 12:07     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 6/8] drm: decouple from CONFIG_FB Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 16:50   ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 16:50     ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 16:50     ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 20:03     ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 20:03       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 20:03       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 20:29       ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 20:29         ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 20:29         ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 7/8] fbdev: rework backlight dependencies Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 17:04   ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 17:04     ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 17:04     ` Sam Ravnborg
2020-04-17 19:55     ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 19:55       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 19:55       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-20  8:02     ` Jani Nikula [this message]
2020-04-20  8:02       ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-20  8:02       ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-17 15:55 ` [PATCH 8/8] drm/bridge/sii8620: fix extcon dependency Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 15:55   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-17 16:52   ` Andrzej Hajda
2020-04-17 16:52     ` Andrzej Hajda
2020-04-17 16:52     ` Andrzej Hajda
2020-04-17 17:14 ` [PATCH 0/8] drm, fbdev: rework dependencies Daniel Vetter
2020-04-17 17:14   ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-17 17:14   ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-17 19:08   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-04-17 19:08     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-04-17 19:08     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-04-20  8:14     ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-20  8:14       ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-20  8:14       ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-20 14:03       ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-20 14:03         ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-20 14:03         ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-04-21 12:27         ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-21 12:27           ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-21 12:27           ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-21 12:58           ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-21 12:58             ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-21 12:58             ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-21 13:05             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-04-21 13:05               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-04-21 13:05               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-04-21 13:10               ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-21 13:10                 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-21 13:10                 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-04-21 13:25                 ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-21 13:25                   ` Jani Nikula
2020-04-21 13:25                   ` Jani Nikula

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