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From: Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
Cc: "Nicolas Pitre" <nicolas.pitre@linaro.org>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	"Michal Hocko" <mhocko@suse.com>,
	"kvm list" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Catalin Marinas" <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	"Christopher Li" <sparse@chrisli.org>,
	"Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@kernel.org>,
	"David Howells" <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	"Paul Gortmaker" <paul.gortmaker@windriver.com>,
	"Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>, "H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"Kernel Hardening" <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	"Christoph Lameter" <cl@linux.com>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"Herbert Xu" <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"Daniel Borkmann" <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <mawilcox@microsoft.com>,
	"Peter Foley" <pefoley2@pefoley.com>
Subject: Re: x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:10:55 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKv+Gu8Uw18pW9nK8aVdBoyuybAV6_mhtagVrje_cBUHMGY4WA__7273.97724190286$1506010313$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170921155919.skpyt7dutod5ul4t@gmail.com>

On 21 September 2017 at 08:59, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> ( Sorry about the delay in answering this. I could blame the delay on the merge
>   window, but in reality I've been procrastinating this is due to the permanent,
>   non-trivial impact PIE has on generated C code. )
>
> * Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) PIE sometime needs two instructions to represent a single
>> instruction on mcmodel=kernel.
>
> What again is the typical frequency of this occurring in an x86-64 defconfig
> kernel, with the very latest GCC?
>
> Also, to make sure: which unwinder did you use for your measurements,
> frame-pointers or ORC? Please use ORC only for future numbers, as
> frame-pointers is obsolete from a performance measurement POV.
>
>> 2) GCC does not optimize switches in PIE in order to reduce relocations:
>
> Hopefully this can either be fixed in GCC or at least influenced via a compiler
> switch in the future.
>

There are somewhat related concerns in the ARM world, so it would be
good if we could work with the GCC developers to get a more high level
and arch neutral command line option (-mkernel-pie? sounds yummy!)
that stops the compiler from making inferences that only hold for
shared libraries and/or other hosted executables (GOT indirections,
avoiding text relocations etc). That way, we will also be able to drop
the 'hidden' visibility override at some point, which we currently
need to prevent the compiler from redirecting all global symbol
references via entries in the GOT.

All we really need is the ability to move the image around in virtual
memory, and things like reducing the CoW footprint or enabling ELF
symbol preemption are completely irrelevant for us.

_______________________________________________
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  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-21 16:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-10 17:25 x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 01/23] x86/crypto: Adapt assembly for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 02/23] x86: Use symbol name on bug table " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 03/23] x86: Use symbol name in jump " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 04/23] x86: Add macro to get symbol address " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 05/23] xen: Adapt assembly " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 06/23] kvm: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 07/23] x86: relocate_kernel - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 08/23] x86/entry/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 09/23] x86: pm-trace - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 10/23] x86/CPU: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 11/23] x86/acpi: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 12/23] x86/boot/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 13/23] x86/power/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:36   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 12:36   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 12:36     ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 14/23] x86/paravirt: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 15/23] x86/boot/64: Use _text in a global " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 16/23] x86/percpu: Adapt percpu " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 17/23] compiler: Option to default to hidden symbols Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 18/23] x86/relocs: Handle DYN relocations for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 19/23] x86: Support global stack cookie Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 20/23] x86/pie: Add option to build the kernel as PIE for x86_64 Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 21/23] x86/relocs: Add option to generate 64-bit relocations Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 22/23] x86/module: Add support for mcmodel large and PLTs Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 23/23] x86/kaslr: Add option to extend KASLR range from 1GB to 3GB Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:41 ` x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 12:41   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 15:09   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15  7:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15  7:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15  7:56       ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15 12:15       ` Jordan Glover
2017-08-15 13:42         ` Rik van Riel
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:20         ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:47         ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:47         ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:47           ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:58           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:58           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:58             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 15:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 15:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 15:12           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 16:09           ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:09           ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:09             ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:26           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:26             ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:32             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:32             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:32               ` [kernel-hardening] " Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:26           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 16:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 16:57             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17  8:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17  8:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17  8:09               ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17 14:10               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:10               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:10                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-24 21:42                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:35                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25  1:07                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  1:07                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25  8:04                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:05                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 15:59                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` Ard Biesheuvel [this message]
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 16:10                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:21                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  4:24                               ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22  4:24                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 14:38                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 16:32                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:08                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:43                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-10-02 20:28                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:38                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 18:57                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 19:06                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 22:19                                     ` hjl.tools
2017-09-22 22:30                                     ` hjl.tools
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:59                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:49                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:12               ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-17 14:12                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-25 15:38                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-27 22:39                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-28  9:59                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-08-17 14:12               ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-21 13:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 13:32             ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28               ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-09-22 18:27               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:27                 ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23 10:00                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-24 22:37                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-25  7:33                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-06 10:39                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-20  8:13                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:27               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-21 13:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:31           ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 15:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-21 15:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-21 15:57             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-28  1:26           ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-28  1:26             ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-28  1:26           ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-21 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-11 12:41 ` Ingo Molnar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier via Virtualization
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier
2017-10-04 21:19 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 Thomas Garnier
2017-07-18 22:33 Thomas Garnier
2017-07-19 14:08 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-07-19 14:08 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-07-18 22:33 Thomas Garnier

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