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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
Cc: "Thomas Garnier" <thgarnie@google.com>,
	"Herbert Xu" <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Ingo Molnar" <mingo@redhat.com>,
	"Josh Poimboeuf" <jpoimboe@redhat.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Matthias Kaehlcke" <mka@chromium.org>,
	"Boris Ostrovsky" <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	"Juergen Gross" <jgross@suse.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>,
	"Joerg Roedel" <joro@8bytes.org>,
	"Tom Lendacky" <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"Borislav Petkov" <bp@suse.de>, "Brian Gerst" <brgerst@gmail.com>,
	"Kirill A . Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	"Len Brown" <len.brown@intel.com>
Subject: Re: x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 11:27:07 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <c830ba59-65d3-187f-3868-732059269f28@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170821142854.dmuusnbc2tsrai3v@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>

On 08/21/17 07:28, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> 
> Ah, I see, this is large mode and that needs to use MOVABS to load 64bit
> immediates. Still, small RIP relative should be able to live at any
> point as long as everything lives inside the same 2G relative range, so
> would still allow the goal of increasing the KASLR range.
> 
> So I'm not seeing how we need large mode for that. That said, after
> reading up on all this, RIP relative will not be too pretty either,
> while CALL is naturally RIP relative, data still needs an explicit %rip
> offset, still loads better than the large model.
> 

The large model makes no sense whatsoever.  I think what we're actually
looking for is the small-PIC model.

Ingo asked:
> I.e. is there no GCC code generation mode where code can be placed anywhere in the 
> canonical address space, yet call and jump distance is within 31 bits so that the 
> generated code is fast?

That's the small-PIC model.  I think if all symbols are forced to hidden
then it won't even need a GOT/PLT.

We do need to consider how we want modules to fit into whatever model we
choose, though.  They can be adjacent, or we could go with a more
traditional dynamic link model where the modules can be separate, and
chained together with the main kernel via the GOT.

	-hpa

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
Cc: "Thomas Garnier" <thgarnie@google.com>,
	"Herbert Xu" <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Ingo Molnar" <mingo@redhat.com>,
	"Josh Poimboeuf" <jpoimboe@redhat.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Matthias Kaehlcke" <mka@chromium.org>,
	"Boris Ostrovsky" <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	"Juergen Gross" <jgross@suse.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>,
	"Joerg Roedel" <joro@8bytes.org>,
	"Tom Lendacky" <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"Borislav Petkov" <bp@suse.de>, "Brian Gerst" <brgerst@gmail.com>,
	"Kirill A . Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	"Len Brown" <len.brown@intel.com>, "Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	"Tejun Heo" <tj@kernel.org>, "Christoph Lameter" <cl@linux.com>,
	"Paul Gortmaker" <paul.gortmaker@windriver.com>,
	"Chris Metcalf" <cmetcalf@mellanox.com>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Paul E . McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"Nicolas Pitre" <nicolas.pitre@linaro.org>,
	"Christopher Li" <sparse@chrisli.org>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	"Lukas Wunner" <lukas@wunner.de>,
	"Mika Westerberg" <mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com>,
	"Dou Liyang" <douly.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com>,
	"Daniel Borkmann" <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	"Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@kernel.org>,
	"Masahiro Yamada" <yamada.masahiro@socionext.com>,
	"Markus Trippelsdorf" <markus@trippelsdorf.de>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Rik van Riel" <riel@redhat.com>,
	"David Howells" <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	"Waiman Long" <longman@redhat.com>, "Kyle Huey" <me@kylehuey.com>,
	"Peter Foley" <pefoley2@pefoley.com>,
	"Tim Chen" <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
	"Catalin Marinas" <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	"Ard Biesheuvel" <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
	"Michal Hocko" <mhocko@suse.com>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <mawilcox@microsoft.com>,
	"H . J . Lu" <hjl.tools@gmail.com>,
	"Paul Bolle" <pebolle@tiscali.nl>,
	"Rob Landley" <rob@landley.net>, "Baoquan He" <bhe@redhat.com>,
	"Daniel Micay" <danielmicay@gmail.com>,
	"the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, "kvm list" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Linux PM list" <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-sparse@vger.kernel.org,
	"Kernel Hardening" <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	"Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Borislav Petkov" <bp@alien8.de>
Subject: [kernel-hardening] Re: x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 11:27:07 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <c830ba59-65d3-187f-3868-732059269f28@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170821142854.dmuusnbc2tsrai3v@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>

On 08/21/17 07:28, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> 
> Ah, I see, this is large mode and that needs to use MOVABS to load 64bit
> immediates. Still, small RIP relative should be able to live at any
> point as long as everything lives inside the same 2G relative range, so
> would still allow the goal of increasing the KASLR range.
> 
> So I'm not seeing how we need large mode for that. That said, after
> reading up on all this, RIP relative will not be too pretty either,
> while CALL is naturally RIP relative, data still needs an explicit %rip
> offset, still loads better than the large model.
> 

The large model makes no sense whatsoever.  I think what we're actually
looking for is the small-PIC model.

Ingo asked:
> I.e. is there no GCC code generation mode where code can be placed anywhere in the 
> canonical address space, yet call and jump distance is within 31 bits so that the 
> generated code is fast?

That's the small-PIC model.  I think if all symbols are forced to hidden
then it won't even need a GOT/PLT.

We do need to consider how we want modules to fit into whatever model we
choose, though.  They can be adjacent, or we could go with a more
traditional dynamic link model where the modules can be separate, and
chained together with the main kernel via the GOT.

	-hpa

  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-22 18:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-10 17:25 x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 01/23] x86/crypto: Adapt assembly for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 02/23] x86: Use symbol name on bug table " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 03/23] x86: Use symbol name in jump " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 04/23] x86: Add macro to get symbol address " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 05/23] xen: Adapt assembly " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 06/23] kvm: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 07/23] x86: relocate_kernel - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 08/23] x86/entry/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 09/23] x86: pm-trace - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 10/23] x86/CPU: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 11/23] x86/acpi: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 12/23] x86/boot/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 13/23] x86/power/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:36   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 12:36   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 12:36     ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 14/23] x86/paravirt: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 15/23] x86/boot/64: Use _text in a global " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 16/23] x86/percpu: Adapt percpu " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 17/23] compiler: Option to default to hidden symbols Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 18/23] x86/relocs: Handle DYN relocations for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 19/23] x86: Support global stack cookie Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 20/23] x86/pie: Add option to build the kernel as PIE for x86_64 Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 21/23] x86/relocs: Add option to generate 64-bit relocations Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 22/23] x86/module: Add support for mcmodel large and PLTs Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 23/23] x86/kaslr: Add option to extend KASLR range from 1GB to 3GB Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:41 ` x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 12:41   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 15:09   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15  7:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15  7:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15  7:56       ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15 12:15       ` Jordan Glover
2017-08-15 13:42         ` Rik van Riel
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:20         ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:47         ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:47         ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:47           ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:58           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:58           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:58             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 15:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 15:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 15:12           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 16:09           ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:09           ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:09             ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:26           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:26             ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:32             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:32             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:32               ` [kernel-hardening] " Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:26           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 16:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 16:57             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17  8:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17  8:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17  8:09               ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17 14:10               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:10               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:10                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-24 21:42                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:35                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25  1:07                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  1:07                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25  8:04                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:05                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 15:59                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 16:10                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:21                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  4:24                               ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22  4:24                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 14:38                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 16:32                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:08                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:43                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-10-02 20:28                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:38                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 18:57                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 19:06                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 22:19                                     ` hjl.tools
2017-09-22 22:30                                     ` hjl.tools
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:59                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:49                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:12               ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-17 14:12                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-25 15:38                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-27 22:39                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-28  9:59                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-08-17 14:12               ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-21 13:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 13:32             ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28               ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-09-22 18:27               ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2017-09-22 18:27                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23 10:00                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-24 22:37                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-25  7:33                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-06 10:39                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-20  8:13                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:27               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-21 13:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:31           ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 15:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-21 15:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-21 15:57             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-28  1:26           ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-28  1:26             ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-28  1:26           ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-21 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-11 12:41 ` Ingo Molnar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier via Virtualization
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier
2017-10-04 21:19 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 Thomas Garnier
2017-07-18 22:33 Thomas Garnier
2017-07-19 14:08 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-07-19 14:08 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-07-18 22:33 Thomas Garnier

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