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From: Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org>
To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
Cc: "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"open list:HARDWARE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR CORE" 
	<linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Dominik Brodowski <linux@dominikbrodowski.net>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>,
	Albert Ou <aou@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	"H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Chris Zankel <chris@zankel.net>,
	Max Filippov <jcmvbkbc@gmail.com>,
	John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>,
	Dinh Nguyen <dinguyen@kernel.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org,
	"open list:MIPS" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-riscv <linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org>,
	sparclinux <sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-um@lists.infradead.org, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 01/11] timekeeping: add raw clock fallback for random_get_entropy()
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:32:34 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAL_JsqJYq5Oe_zBbcwYNMpfpqGLGCyaSfGqOrPjZ_Pj=nF73mA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220413115411.21489-2-Jason@zx2c4.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 6:55 AM Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
>
> The addition of random_get_entropy_fallback() provides access to
> whichever time source has the highest frequency, which is useful for
> gathering entropy on platforms without available cycle counters. It's
> not necessarily as good as being able to quickly access a cycle counter
> that the CPU has, but it's still something, even when it falls back to
> being jiffies-based.
>
> In the event that a given arch does not define get_cycles(), falling
> back to the get_cycles() default implementation that returns 0 is really
> not the best we can do. Instead, at least calling
> random_get_entropy_fallback() would be preferable, because that always
> needs to return _something_, even falling back to jiffies eventually.
> It's not as though random_get_entropy_fallback() is super high precision
> or guaranteed to be entropic, but basically anything that's not zero all
> the time is better than returning zero all the time.
>
> Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
> Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
> Cc: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
> Signed-off-by: Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com>
> ---
>  include/linux/timex.h     |  8 ++++++++
>  kernel/time/timekeeping.c | 10 ++++++++++
>  2 files changed, 18 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/include/linux/timex.h b/include/linux/timex.h
> index 5745c90c8800..fbbe34226044 100644
> --- a/include/linux/timex.h
> +++ b/include/linux/timex.h
> @@ -62,6 +62,8 @@
>  #include <linux/types.h>
>  #include <linux/param.h>
>
> +extern unsigned long random_get_entropy_fallback(void);
> +
>  #include <asm/timex.h>
>
>  #ifndef random_get_entropy
> @@ -74,8 +76,14 @@
>   *
>   * By default we use get_cycles() for this purpose, but individual
>   * architectures may override this in their asm/timex.h header file.
> + * If a given arch does not have get_cycles(), then we fallback to

'does not have a usable get_cycles(), ...' as clearly some arches have
get_cycles() and yet still need a fallback.

Why not handle the 'if get_cycles() returns 0 do the fallback' within
a weak random_get_entropy() function? Then more arches don't need any
random_get_entropy() implementation.

Rob

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org>
To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
Cc: "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	 "open list:HARDWARE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR CORE"
	<linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	 Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	 Dominik Brodowski <linux@dominikbrodowski.net>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	 Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	 Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	 Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>,
	 Albert Ou <aou@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	 Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com>,
	 Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,  Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	 "H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Chris Zankel <chris@zankel.net>,
	Max Filippov <jcmvbkbc@gmail.com>,
	 John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>,
	 Dinh Nguyen <dinguyen@kernel.org>,
	 linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org,
	 "open list:MIPS" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-riscv <linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org>,
	 sparclinux <sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-um@lists.infradead.org,  X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 01/11] timekeeping: add raw clock fallback for random_get_entropy()
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:32:34 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAL_JsqJYq5Oe_zBbcwYNMpfpqGLGCyaSfGqOrPjZ_Pj=nF73mA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220413115411.21489-2-Jason@zx2c4.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 6:55 AM Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
>
> The addition of random_get_entropy_fallback() provides access to
> whichever time source has the highest frequency, which is useful for
> gathering entropy on platforms without available cycle counters. It's
> not necessarily as good as being able to quickly access a cycle counter
> that the CPU has, but it's still something, even when it falls back to
> being jiffies-based.
>
> In the event that a given arch does not define get_cycles(), falling
> back to the get_cycles() default implementation that returns 0 is really
> not the best we can do. Instead, at least calling
> random_get_entropy_fallback() would be preferable, because that always
> needs to return _something_, even falling back to jiffies eventually.
> It's not as though random_get_entropy_fallback() is super high precision
> or guaranteed to be entropic, but basically anything that's not zero all
> the time is better than returning zero all the time.
>
> Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
> Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
> Cc: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
> Signed-off-by: Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com>
> ---
>  include/linux/timex.h     |  8 ++++++++
>  kernel/time/timekeeping.c | 10 ++++++++++
>  2 files changed, 18 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/include/linux/timex.h b/include/linux/timex.h
> index 5745c90c8800..fbbe34226044 100644
> --- a/include/linux/timex.h
> +++ b/include/linux/timex.h
> @@ -62,6 +62,8 @@
>  #include <linux/types.h>
>  #include <linux/param.h>
>
> +extern unsigned long random_get_entropy_fallback(void);
> +
>  #include <asm/timex.h>
>
>  #ifndef random_get_entropy
> @@ -74,8 +76,14 @@
>   *
>   * By default we use get_cycles() for this purpose, but individual
>   * architectures may override this in their asm/timex.h header file.
> + * If a given arch does not have get_cycles(), then we fallback to

'does not have a usable get_cycles(), ...' as clearly some arches have
get_cycles() and yet still need a fallback.

Why not handle the 'if get_cycles() returns 0 do the fallback' within
a weak random_get_entropy() function? Then more arches don't need any
random_get_entropy() implementation.

Rob

_______________________________________________
linux-riscv mailing list
linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-riscv

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org>
To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
Cc: "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	 "open list:HARDWARE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR CORE"
	<linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	 Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	 Dominik Brodowski <linux@dominikbrodowski.net>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	 Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	 Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	 Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>,
	 Albert Ou <aou@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	 Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com>,
	 Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,  Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	 "H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Chris Zankel <chris@zankel.net>,
	Max Filippov <jcmvbkbc@gmail.com>,
	 John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>,
	 Dinh Nguyen <dinguyen@kernel.org>,
	 linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org,
	 "open list:MIPS" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-riscv <linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org>,
	 sparclinux <sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-um@lists.infradead.org,  X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 01/11] timekeeping: add raw clock fallback for random_get_entropy()
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:32:34 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAL_JsqJYq5Oe_zBbcwYNMpfpqGLGCyaSfGqOrPjZ_Pj=nF73mA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220413115411.21489-2-Jason@zx2c4.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 6:55 AM Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
>
> The addition of random_get_entropy_fallback() provides access to
> whichever time source has the highest frequency, which is useful for
> gathering entropy on platforms without available cycle counters. It's
> not necessarily as good as being able to quickly access a cycle counter
> that the CPU has, but it's still something, even when it falls back to
> being jiffies-based.
>
> In the event that a given arch does not define get_cycles(), falling
> back to the get_cycles() default implementation that returns 0 is really
> not the best we can do. Instead, at least calling
> random_get_entropy_fallback() would be preferable, because that always
> needs to return _something_, even falling back to jiffies eventually.
> It's not as though random_get_entropy_fallback() is super high precision
> or guaranteed to be entropic, but basically anything that's not zero all
> the time is better than returning zero all the time.
>
> Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
> Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
> Cc: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
> Signed-off-by: Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com>
> ---
>  include/linux/timex.h     |  8 ++++++++
>  kernel/time/timekeeping.c | 10 ++++++++++
>  2 files changed, 18 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/include/linux/timex.h b/include/linux/timex.h
> index 5745c90c8800..fbbe34226044 100644
> --- a/include/linux/timex.h
> +++ b/include/linux/timex.h
> @@ -62,6 +62,8 @@
>  #include <linux/types.h>
>  #include <linux/param.h>
>
> +extern unsigned long random_get_entropy_fallback(void);
> +
>  #include <asm/timex.h>
>
>  #ifndef random_get_entropy
> @@ -74,8 +76,14 @@
>   *
>   * By default we use get_cycles() for this purpose, but individual
>   * architectures may override this in their asm/timex.h header file.
> + * If a given arch does not have get_cycles(), then we fallback to

'does not have a usable get_cycles(), ...' as clearly some arches have
get_cycles() and yet still need a fallback.

Why not handle the 'if get_cycles() returns 0 do the fallback' within
a weak random_get_entropy() function? Then more arches don't need any
random_get_entropy() implementation.

Rob

_______________________________________________
linux-arm-kernel mailing list
linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel

  reply	other threads:[~2022-04-13 14:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-04-13 11:54 [PATCH v4 00/11] archs/random: fallback to best raw ktime when no cycle counter Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 01/11] timekeeping: add raw clock fallback for random_get_entropy() Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 14:32   ` Rob Herring [this message]
2022-04-13 14:32     ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 14:32     ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 22:38     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 22:38       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 22:38       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14 20:41       ` Rob Herring
2022-04-14 20:41         ` Rob Herring
2022-04-14 20:41         ` Rob Herring
2022-04-14 21:49         ` H. Peter Anvin
2022-04-14 21:49           ` H. Peter Anvin
2022-04-14 21:49           ` H. Peter Anvin
2022-04-14 10:12   ` Russell King (Oracle)
2022-04-14 10:12     ` Russell King (Oracle)
2022-04-14 10:12     ` Russell King (Oracle)
2022-04-14 11:56     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14 11:56       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14 11:56       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 02/11] m68k: use fallback for random_get_entropy() instead of zero Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 03/11] riscv: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 14:40   ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 14:40     ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 14:40     ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 22:40     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 22:40       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 22:40       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 04/11] mips: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 12:25   ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-13 12:25     ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-13 12:25     ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-13 12:46     ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-13 12:46       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-13 12:46       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-13 22:35       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 22:35         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 22:35         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14  1:16         ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-14  1:16           ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-14  1:16           ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-14  9:27           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14  9:27             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14  9:27             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-15 12:26             ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-15 12:26               ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-15 12:26               ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-16 11:09               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-16 11:09                 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-16 11:09                 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-16 14:44                 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-16 14:44                   ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-16 14:44                   ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-16 22:54                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-16 22:54                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-16 22:54                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-18  7:10               ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-18  7:10                 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-18  7:10                 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-18  7:10                 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-23 23:33                 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-23 23:33                   ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-23 23:33                   ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-24  8:15                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-24  8:15                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-24  8:15                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-24 10:51                     ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-24 10:51                       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-24 10:51                       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 05/11] arm: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 06/11] nios2: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-23 13:58   ` Dinh Nguyen
2022-05-23 13:58     ` Dinh Nguyen
2022-05-23 13:58     ` Dinh Nguyen
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 07/11] x86: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 08/11] um: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 09/11] sparc: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 10/11] xtensa: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 11/11] random: insist on random_get_entropy() existing in order to simplify Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54   ` Jason A. Donenfeld

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