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From: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
To: Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca>
Cc: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>,
	Jeff Layton <jlayton@poochiereds.net>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	linux-ext4 <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	"linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org" <linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org>,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>, XFS Developers <xfs@oss.sgi.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <matthew.r.wilcox@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 03/11] pmem: enable REQ_FUA/REQ_FLUSH handling
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:32:40 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAPcyv4jwx3VzyRugcpH7KCOKM64kJ4Bq4wgY=iNJMvLTHrBv-Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <22E0F870-C1FB-431E-BF6C-B395A09A2B0D@dilger.ca>

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2015, at 5:20 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Ross Zwisler
>> <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>> Currently the PMEM driver doesn't accept REQ_FLUSH or REQ_FUA bios.  These
>>> are sent down via blkdev_issue_flush() in response to a fsync() or msync()
>>> and are used by filesystems to order their metadata, among other things.
>>>
>>> When we get an msync() or fsync() it is the responsibility of the DAX code
>>> to flush all dirty pages to media.  The PMEM driver then just has issue a
>>> wmb_pmem() in response to the REQ_FLUSH to ensure that before we return all
>>> the flushed data has been durably stored on the media.
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>
>>
>> Hmm, I'm not seeing why we need this patch.  If the actual flushing of
>> the cache is done by the core why does the driver need support
>> REQ_FLUSH?  Especially since it's just a couple instructions.  REQ_FUA
>> only makes sense if individual writes can bypass the "drive" cache,
>> but no I/O submitted to the driver proper is ever cached we always
>> flush it through to media.
>
> If the upper level filesystem gets an error when submitting a flush
> request, then it assumes the underlying hardware is broken and cannot
> be as aggressive in IO submission, but instead has to wait for in-flight
> IO to complete.

Upper level filesystems won't get errors when the driver does not
support flush.  Those requests are ended cleanly in
generic_make_request_checks().  Yes, the fs still needs to wait for
outstanding I/O to complete but in the case of pmem all I/O is
synchronous.  There's never anything to await when flushing at the
pmem driver level.

> Since FUA/FLUSH is basically a no-op for pmem devices,
> it doesn't make sense _not_ to support this functionality.

Seems to be a nop either way.  Given that DAX may lead to dirty data
pending to the device in the cpu cache that a REQ_FLUSH request will
not touch, its better to leave it all to the mm core to handle.  I.e.
it doesn't make sense to call the driver just for two instructions
(sfence + pcommit) when the mm core is taking on the cache flushing.
Either handle it all in the mm or the driver, not a mixture.

--
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
To: Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca>
Cc: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	"Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>,
	Jeff Layton <jlayton@poochiereds.net>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	linux-ext4 <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	"linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org" <linux-nvdimm@ml01.01.org>,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>, XFS Developers <xfs@oss.sgi.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <matthew.r.wilcox@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 03/11] pmem: enable REQ_FUA/REQ_FLUSH handling
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:32:40 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAPcyv4jwx3VzyRugcpH7KCOKM64kJ4Bq4wgY=iNJMvLTHrBv-Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <22E0F870-C1FB-431E-BF6C-B395A09A2B0D@dilger.ca>

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2015, at 5:20 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Ross Zwisler
>> <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>> Currently the PMEM driver doesn't accept REQ_FLUSH or REQ_FUA bios.  These
>>> are sent down via blkdev_issue_flush() in response to a fsync() or msync()
>>> and are used by filesystems to order their metadata, among other things.
>>>
>>> When we get an msync() or fsync() it is the responsibility of the DAX code
>>> to flush all dirty pages to media.  The PMEM driver then just has issue a
>>> wmb_pmem() in response to the REQ_FLUSH to ensure that before we return all
>>> the flushed data has been durably stored on the media.
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>
>>
>> Hmm, I'm not seeing why we need this patch.  If the actual flushing of
>> the cache is done by the core why does the driver need support
>> REQ_FLUSH?  Especially since it's just a couple instructions.  REQ_FUA
>> only makes sense if individual writes can bypass the "drive" cache,
>> but no I/O submitted to the driver proper is ever cached we always
>> flush it through to media.
>
> If the upper level filesystem gets an error when submitting a flush
> request, then it assumes the underlying hardware is broken and cannot
> be as aggressive in IO submission, but instead has to wait for in-flight
> IO to complete.

Upper level filesystems won't get errors when the driver does not
support flush.  Those requests are ended cleanly in
generic_make_request_checks().  Yes, the fs still needs to wait for
outstanding I/O to complete but in the case of pmem all I/O is
synchronous.  There's never anything to await when flushing at the
pmem driver level.

> Since FUA/FLUSH is basically a no-op for pmem devices,
> it doesn't make sense _not_ to support this functionality.

Seems to be a nop either way.  Given that DAX may lead to dirty data
pending to the device in the cpu cache that a REQ_FLUSH request will
not touch, its better to leave it all to the mm core to handle.  I.e.
it doesn't make sense to call the driver just for two instructions
(sfence + pcommit) when the mm core is taking on the cache flushing.
Either handle it all in the mm or the driver, not a mixture.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
To: Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca>
Cc: X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org" <linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	XFS Developers <xfs@oss.sgi.com>,
	"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>,
	Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	linux-ext4 <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jeff Layton <jlayton@poochiereds.net>,
	Matthew Wilcox <matthew.r.wilcox@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 03/11] pmem: enable REQ_FUA/REQ_FLUSH handling
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:32:40 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAPcyv4jwx3VzyRugcpH7KCOKM64kJ4Bq4wgY=iNJMvLTHrBv-Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <22E0F870-C1FB-431E-BF6C-B395A09A2B0D@dilger.ca>

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2015, at 5:20 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Ross Zwisler
>> <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>> Currently the PMEM driver doesn't accept REQ_FLUSH or REQ_FUA bios.  These
>>> are sent down via blkdev_issue_flush() in response to a fsync() or msync()
>>> and are used by filesystems to order their metadata, among other things.
>>>
>>> When we get an msync() or fsync() it is the responsibility of the DAX code
>>> to flush all dirty pages to media.  The PMEM driver then just has issue a
>>> wmb_pmem() in response to the REQ_FLUSH to ensure that before we return all
>>> the flushed data has been durably stored on the media.
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>
>>
>> Hmm, I'm not seeing why we need this patch.  If the actual flushing of
>> the cache is done by the core why does the driver need support
>> REQ_FLUSH?  Especially since it's just a couple instructions.  REQ_FUA
>> only makes sense if individual writes can bypass the "drive" cache,
>> but no I/O submitted to the driver proper is ever cached we always
>> flush it through to media.
>
> If the upper level filesystem gets an error when submitting a flush
> request, then it assumes the underlying hardware is broken and cannot
> be as aggressive in IO submission, but instead has to wait for in-flight
> IO to complete.

Upper level filesystems won't get errors when the driver does not
support flush.  Those requests are ended cleanly in
generic_make_request_checks().  Yes, the fs still needs to wait for
outstanding I/O to complete but in the case of pmem all I/O is
synchronous.  There's never anything to await when flushing at the
pmem driver level.

> Since FUA/FLUSH is basically a no-op for pmem devices,
> it doesn't make sense _not_ to support this functionality.

Seems to be a nop either way.  Given that DAX may lead to dirty data
pending to the device in the cpu cache that a REQ_FLUSH request will
not touch, its better to leave it all to the mm core to handle.  I.e.
it doesn't make sense to call the driver just for two instructions
(sfence + pcommit) when the mm core is taking on the cache flushing.
Either handle it all in the mm or the driver, not a mixture.

_______________________________________________
xfs mailing list
xfs@oss.sgi.com
http://oss.sgi.com/mailman/listinfo/xfs

  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-14  2:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 132+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-14  0:06 [PATCH v2 00/11] DAX fsynx/msync support Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 01/11] pmem: add wb_cache_pmem() to the PMEM API Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 02/11] mm: add pmd_mkclean() Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  1:02   ` Dave Hansen
2015-11-14  1:02     ` Dave Hansen
2015-11-14  1:02     ` Dave Hansen
2015-11-17 17:52     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 17:52       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 17:52       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 03/11] pmem: enable REQ_FUA/REQ_FLUSH handling Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:20   ` Dan Williams
2015-11-14  0:20     ` Dan Williams
2015-11-14  0:20     ` Dan Williams
2015-11-14  0:43     ` Andreas Dilger
2015-11-14  0:43       ` Andreas Dilger
2015-11-14  0:43       ` Andreas Dilger
2015-11-14  2:32       ` Dan Williams [this message]
2015-11-14  2:32         ` Dan Williams
2015-11-14  2:32         ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 13:37         ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 13:37           ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 13:37           ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 13:37           ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 14:05           ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 14:05             ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 14:05             ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 17:28             ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 17:28               ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 17:28               ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 19:48               ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 19:48                 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 19:48                 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 19:48                 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 20:34                 ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 20:34                   ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 20:34                   ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 20:34                   ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 23:57                   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:57                     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:57                     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:57                     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 22:14             ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 22:14               ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 22:14               ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:29               ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:29                 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:29                 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:29                 ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:42                 ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:42                   ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:42                   ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:42                   ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 20:09         ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 20:09           ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 20:09           ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-18 10:40           ` Jan Kara
2015-11-18 10:40             ` Jan Kara
2015-11-18 10:40             ` Jan Kara
2015-11-18 10:40             ` Jan Kara
2015-11-18 16:16             ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-18 16:16               ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-18 16:16               ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-18 16:16               ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-18 16:16               ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 04/11] dax: support dirty DAX entries in radix tree Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 05/11] mm: add follow_pte_pmd() Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 06/11] mm: add pgoff_mkclean() Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 07/11] mm: add find_get_entries_tag() Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 22:42   ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 22:42     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 22:42     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-17 18:08     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 18:08       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 18:08       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 08/11] dax: add support for fsync/sync Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 22:58   ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 22:58     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 22:58     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-17 18:30     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 18:30       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 18:30       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 09/11] ext2: add support for DAX fsync/msync Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 10/11] ext4: " Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v2 11/11] xfs: " Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-14  0:06   ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 23:12   ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:12     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:12     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 23:12     ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-17 19:03     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 19:03       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 19:03       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-17 19:03       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-20  0:37       ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-20  0:37         ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-20  0:37         ` Dave Chinner
2015-11-16 14:41 ` [PATCH v2 00/11] DAX fsynx/msync support Jan Kara
2015-11-16 14:41   ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 14:41   ` Jan Kara
2015-11-16 16:58   ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 16:58     ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 16:58     ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 16:58     ` Dan Williams
2015-11-16 20:01     ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 20:01       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 20:01       ` Ross Zwisler
2015-11-16 20:01       ` Ross Zwisler

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