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From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "linux-os \(Dick Johnson\)" <linux-os@analogic.com>,
	"Arjan van de Ven" <arjan@infradead.org>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [patch] spinlocks: remove 'volatile'
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:19:00 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <MDEHLPKNGKAHNMBLJOLKCECBNAAB.davids@webmaster.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0607060816110.8320@chaos.analogic.com>


> Look at:
>
>  	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_variable
>
> This is just what is needed to prevent the compiler from making
> non working
> code during optimization.

	That article is totally and completely wrong, in fact it's so wrong it's
harmful. For example, it says:

... [A] variable that might be concurrently modified by multiple
threads (without locks or a similar form of mutual exclusion) should be
declared volatile.

	Without pointing out that the use of 'volatile' is neither required nor
sufficient, this is an utterly false statement. The reference to "mutual
exclusion" is puzzling, since the problem is cached data, not concurrent
accesses.

	It talks about controlling compiler optimizations. What difference does it
make to me whether an optimization that breaks my code is made by the
compiler or the processor?

	The most serious problem with the article is that it does not point out
what is guaranteed behavior and what happens to be true for some particular
platforms. In fact, the only platform I know of where the behavior the
article implies is guaranteed is (at least arguably) actually guaranteed is
Win32. (And I'm not sure of what value a guarantee is that you have to argue
is implied mostly by omission.)

	Sadly, it omits any mention of the *actual* legitimate use of 'volatile'.
That is, the cases where it has guaranteed semantics and actually is both
necessary and sufficient.

	DS



  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-07-06 23:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-07-05  8:49 [patch] uninline init_waitqueue_*() functions Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05  9:31 ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-05  9:32   ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05  9:53     ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-05 10:26       ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 11:30         ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 11:46           ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 17:10             ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-05 19:35               ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 20:18                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-05 20:36                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-05 20:47                     ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 21:15                       ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 21:21                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-05 21:45                         ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 21:58                           ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-07-05 22:00                             ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 22:10                               ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-07-05 22:27                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 23:15                               ` Adrian Bunk
2006-07-05 22:09                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-05 22:30                             ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 23:11                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06  8:16                               ` [patch] spinlocks: remove 'volatile' Ingo Molnar
2006-07-06  8:23                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-06  9:27                                 ` Heiko Carstens
2006-07-06  9:34                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-06 11:59                                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-07-06 12:01                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-06 12:29                                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-07-06 12:39                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-06 13:39                                         ` J.A. Magallón
2006-07-06 13:43                                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-06 14:05                                           ` Chase Venters
2006-07-06 14:26                                           ` Andreas Schwab
2006-07-06 16:40                                       ` Nick Piggin
2006-07-06 23:19                                       ` David Schwartz [this message]
2006-07-06 18:15                                     ` Mark Lord
2006-07-06 19:15                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 19:33                                         ` Chris Friesen
2006-07-06 19:37                                           ` Mark Lord
2006-07-06 20:28                                             ` Chris Friesen
2006-07-06 20:32                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 19:38                                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-06 19:41                                           ` Måns Rullgård
2006-07-06 19:42                                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-07-06 19:58                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 20:27                                             ` Mark Lord
2006-07-06 20:40                                             ` Chris Friesen
2006-07-06 21:00                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08  8:40                                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-07-08  8:51                                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-08  9:20                                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-07-08  9:51                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-08 10:18                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2006-07-08 10:28                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-07-09  4:19                                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-07-09 12:47                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2006-07-09 19:16                                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-07-09 19:51                                                         ` Theodore Tso
2006-07-09 20:40                                                           ` [OT] 'volatile' in userspace Rutger Nijlunsing
2006-07-10  3:42                                                             ` Theodore Tso
2006-07-10 17:00                                                               ` Joshua Hudson
2006-07-10 17:54                                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2006-07-11  7:48                                                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-07-11 11:53                                                                     ` Nick Piggin
2006-07-11 19:09                                                                       ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-07-11 20:55                                                                       ` Jeff Dike
2006-07-10 18:54                                                                 ` Jeff Dike
2006-07-10 20:09                                                                   ` Philippe Troin
2006-07-10 20:52                                                                     ` Jeff Dike
2006-07-06 16:07                                   ` [patch] spinlocks: remove 'volatile' Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 16:13                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 17:04                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-07-06 17:52                                       ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-07-06 18:00                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 21:02                                           ` J.A. Magallón
2006-07-06 21:12                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 18:10                                         ` Michael Buesch
2006-07-06 18:16                                         ` Chase Venters
2006-07-07 18:16                                         ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-07-07 19:51                                           ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-07-07 20:25                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-07 21:22                                               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-07-07 21:48                                                 ` Chase Venters
2006-07-08 10:00                                                   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-07-08 13:41                                                     ` Chase Venters
2006-07-08 20:09                                                       ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-07-08 20:40                                                         ` Chase Venters
2006-07-08 20:47                                                           ` Chase Venters
2006-07-09 10:57                                                           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-07-07 21:59                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-07 22:06                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08 20:49                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-08 21:43                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-07 22:05                                                 ` J.A. Magallón
2006-07-07 22:22                                                   ` Chase Venters
2006-07-07 22:37                                                     ` J.A. Magallón
2006-07-08  9:33                                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-07-07 22:49                                                     ` J.A. Magallón
2006-07-07 22:59                                                       ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-07-07 23:18                                                       ` Chase Venters
2006-07-07 23:36                                                   ` Davide Libenzi
2006-07-07 22:09                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-08  7:36                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-07 20:39                                             ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-07-07 23:06                                             ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-07-08  8:36                                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-07-06 19:32                                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-07-06 20:26                                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2006-07-06 20:55                                           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-07-06 21:07                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 19:56                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 20:34                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08 22:50                                     ` Ralf Baechle
2006-07-09  3:09                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-09  3:07                                     ` Keith Owens
2006-07-09  3:29                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-09  3:43                                         ` Keith Owens
2006-07-09  3:58                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-09  6:13                                         ` David Miller
2006-07-09 14:28                                         ` Roman Zippel
2006-07-09 15:27                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06  8:18                               ` [patch] lockdep: clean up completion initializer in smpboot.c Ingo Molnar
2006-07-06  8:23                               ` [patch] uninline init_waitqueue_*() functions Ingo Molnar
2006-07-06  9:02                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-06  9:12                                   ` [patch] uninline init_waitqueue_head() Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 20:45                   ` [patch] uninline init_waitqueue_*() functions Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05 10:37     ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-07-05 10:44       ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-05 10:46         ` Andrew Morton
2006-07-05 10:47         ` Ingo Molnar
2006-07-05  9:54 ` [patch] uninline init_waitqueue_*() functions, fix Ingo Molnar
2006-07-07 10:21 [patch] spinlocks: remove 'volatile' Chuck Ebbert
2006-07-07 17:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08  3:54 Albert Cahalan
2006-07-08  5:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08  6:39   ` Nick Piggin
2006-07-08 18:53     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08  9:45 ` Joe Korty
2006-07-08  9:52   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-08  9:59   ` David Schwartz
2006-07-08 10:24   ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-07-08 15:49     ` Albert Cahalan
2006-07-08 18:31       ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-07-08 19:33         ` Albert Cahalan
2006-07-08 20:11           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-09 21:10             ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-09 22:18               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-10 16:25               ` marty fouts
2006-07-08 23:10           ` David Schwartz
2006-07-08 13:57   ` Andi Kleen
2006-07-08 19:13     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-08 10:45 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-07-08  6:12 trajce nedev
2006-07-08  6:19 ` Chase Venters
2006-07-08  6:45   ` trajce nedev
2006-07-08  6:58     ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-07-08  7:02     ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-07-08 13:46     ` Chase Venters
2006-07-09  4:39       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-07-14  3:30       ` Steven Rostedt
2006-07-08 18:23 ` Linus Torvalds

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