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From: Jaegeuk Kim <jaegeuk@kernel.org>
To: Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>
Cc: "chao@kernel.org" <chao@kernel.org>,
	"linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" 
	<linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	"hans@owltronix.com" <hans@owltronix.com>,
	"hch@infradead.org" <hch@infradead.org>,
	Aravind Ramesh <Aravind.Ramesh@wdc.com>,
	Hans Holmberg <Hans.Holmberg@wdc.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] f2fs: preserve direct write semantics when buffering is forced
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 17:46:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZBzy7RHlCqmApxUe@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8207efb81cd1e9322ad608d313eb4b4bd5740e80.camel@wdc.com>

On 03/24, Damien Le Moal wrote:
> On Thu, 2023-03-23 at 16:46 -0700, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
> > On 03/23, Damien Le Moal wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2023-03-23 at 15:14 -0700, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
> > > > On 03/20, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 01:20:04PM +0100, Hans Holmberg wrote:
> > > > > > A) Supporting proper direct writes for zoned block devices
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be the best, but it is currently not supported (probably for
> > > > > > a good but non-obvious reason). Would it be feasible to
> > > > > > implement proper direct IO?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't think why not.  In many ways direct writes to zoned
> > > > > devices
> > > > > should be easier than non-direct writes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any comments from the maintainers why the direct I/O writes to
> > > > > zoned
> > > > > devices are disabled?  I could not find anything helpful in the
> > > > > comments
> > > > > or commit logs.
> > > > 
> > > > The direct IO wants to overwrite the data on the same block
> > > > address,
> > > > while
> > > > zoned device does not support it?
> > > 
> > > Surely that is not the case with LFS mode, doesn't it ? Otherwise,
> > > even
> > > buffered overwrites would have an issue.
> > 
> > Zoned device only supports LFS mode.
> 
> Yes, and that was exactly my point: with LFS mode, O_DIRECT write
> should never overwrite anything. So I do not see why direct writes
> should be handled as buffered writes with zoned devices. Am I missing
> something here ?

That's an easiest way to serialize block allocation and submit_bio when users
are calling buffered writes and direct writes in parallel. :)
I just felt that if we can manage both of them in direct write path along with
buffered write path, we may be able to avoid memcpy.

> 
> > 
> 

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jaegeuk Kim <jaegeuk@kernel.org>
To: Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>
Cc: "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net"
	<linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	"hch@infradead.org" <hch@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [f2fs-dev] [RFC PATCH] f2fs: preserve direct write semantics when buffering is forced
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 17:46:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZBzy7RHlCqmApxUe@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8207efb81cd1e9322ad608d313eb4b4bd5740e80.camel@wdc.com>

On 03/24, Damien Le Moal wrote:
> On Thu, 2023-03-23 at 16:46 -0700, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
> > On 03/23, Damien Le Moal wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2023-03-23 at 15:14 -0700, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
> > > > On 03/20, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 01:20:04PM +0100, Hans Holmberg wrote:
> > > > > > A) Supporting proper direct writes for zoned block devices
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be the best, but it is currently not supported (probably for
> > > > > > a good but non-obvious reason). Would it be feasible to
> > > > > > implement proper direct IO?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't think why not.  In many ways direct writes to zoned
> > > > > devices
> > > > > should be easier than non-direct writes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any comments from the maintainers why the direct I/O writes to
> > > > > zoned
> > > > > devices are disabled?  I could not find anything helpful in the
> > > > > comments
> > > > > or commit logs.
> > > > 
> > > > The direct IO wants to overwrite the data on the same block
> > > > address,
> > > > while
> > > > zoned device does not support it?
> > > 
> > > Surely that is not the case with LFS mode, doesn't it ? Otherwise,
> > > even
> > > buffered overwrites would have an issue.
> > 
> > Zoned device only supports LFS mode.
> 
> Yes, and that was exactly my point: with LFS mode, O_DIRECT write
> should never overwrite anything. So I do not see why direct writes
> should be handled as buffered writes with zoned devices. Am I missing
> something here ?

That's an easiest way to serialize block allocation and submit_bio when users
are calling buffered writes and direct writes in parallel. :)
I just felt that if we can manage both of them in direct write path along with
buffered write path, we may be able to avoid memcpy.

> 
> > 
> 


_______________________________________________
Linux-f2fs-devel mailing list
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  reply	other threads:[~2023-03-24  0:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 24+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-02-20 12:20 [RFC PATCH] f2fs: preserve direct write semantics when buffering is forced Hans Holmberg
2023-02-20 12:20 ` [f2fs-dev] " Hans Holmberg via Linux-f2fs-devel
     [not found] ` <CGME20230220123747epcas2p4c72ace14d10031df7aa116999ad5fe25@epcms2p8>
2023-02-22 11:08   ` Yonggil Song
2023-02-22 11:08     ` Yonggil Song
2023-03-20 13:42 ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-03-20 13:42   ` [f2fs-dev] " Christoph Hellwig
2023-03-23 22:14   ` Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-23 22:14     ` [f2fs-dev] " Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-23 23:02     ` Damien Le Moal
2023-03-23 23:02       ` [f2fs-dev] " Damien Le Moal via Linux-f2fs-devel
2023-03-23 23:46       ` Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-23 23:46         ` [f2fs-dev] " Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-24  0:06         ` Damien Le Moal
2023-03-24  0:06           ` [f2fs-dev] " Damien Le Moal via Linux-f2fs-devel
2023-03-24  0:46           ` Jaegeuk Kim [this message]
2023-03-24  0:46             ` Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-26 23:39             ` hch
2023-03-26 23:39               ` [f2fs-dev] " hch
2023-06-05 11:56               ` Hans Holmberg
2023-06-05 11:56                 ` [f2fs-dev] " Hans Holmberg via Linux-f2fs-devel
2023-06-05 19:36                 ` Jaegeuk Kim
2023-06-05 19:36                   ` [f2fs-dev] " Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-23 22:37 ` Jaegeuk Kim
2023-03-23 22:37   ` [f2fs-dev] " Jaegeuk Kim

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