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From: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
To: Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, "Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <willy@infradead.org>,
	"Ross Zwisler" <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	"Keith Busch" <keith.busch@intel.com>,
	"Dan Williams" <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	"Haggai Eran" <haggaie@mellanox.com>,
	"Balbir Singh" <bsingharora@gmail.com>,
	"Aneesh Kumar K . V" <aneesh.kumar@linux.ibm.com>,
	"Benjamin Herrenschmidt" <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	"Felix Kuehling" <felix.kuehling@amd.com>,
	"Philip Yang" <Philip.Yang@amd.com>,
	"Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>,
	"Paul Blinzer" <Paul.Blinzer@amd.com>,
	"Logan Gunthorpe" <logang@deltatee.com>,
	"John Hubbard" <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	"Ralph Campbell" <rcampbell@nvidia.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/14] Heterogeneous Memory System (HMS) and hbind()
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 11:31:21 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <d6508932-377c-a4d1-d4d8-01d0f55b9190@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181206192050.GC3544@redhat.com>

On 12/6/18 11:20 AM, Jerome Glisse wrote:
>>> For case 1 you can pre-parse stuff but this can be done by helper library
>> How would that work?  Would each user/container/whatever do this once?
>> Where would they keep the pre-parsed stuff?  How do they manage their
>> cache if the topology changes?
> Short answer i don't expect a cache, i expect that each program will have
> a init function that query the topology and update the application codes
> accordingly.

My concern with having folks do per-program parsing, *and* having a huge
amount of data to parse makes it unusable.  The largest systems will
literally have hundreds of thousands of objects in /sysfs, even in a
single directory.  That makes readdir() basically impossible, and makes
even open() (if you already know the path you want somehow) hard to do fast.

I just don't think sysfs (or any filesystem, really) can scale to
express large, complicated topologies in a way that any normal program
can practically parse it.

My suspicion is that we're going to need to have the kernel parse and
cache these things.  We *might* have the data available in sysfs, but we
can't reasonably expect anyone to go parsing it.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
To: Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, "Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <willy@infradead.org>,
	"Ross Zwisler" <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	"Keith Busch" <keith.busch@intel.com>,
	"Dan Williams" <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	"Haggai Eran" <haggaie@mellanox.com>,
	"Balbir Singh" <bsingharora@gmail.com>,
	"Aneesh Kumar K . V" <aneesh.kumar@linux.ibm.com>,
	"Benjamin Herrenschmidt" <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	"Felix Kuehling" <felix.kuehling@amd.com>,
	"Philip Yang" <Philip.Yang@amd.com>,
	"Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>,
	"Paul Blinzer" <Paul.Blinzer@amd.com>,
	"Logan Gunthorpe" <logang@deltatee.com>,
	"John Hubbard" <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	"Ralph Campbell" <rcampbell@nvidia.com>,
	"Michal Hocko" <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	"Jonathan Cameron" <jonathan.cameron@huawei.com>,
	"Mark Hairgrove" <mhairgrove@nvidia.com>,
	"Vivek Kini" <vkini@nvidia.com>,
	"Mel Gorman" <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	"Dave Airlie" <airlied@redhat.com>,
	"Ben Skeggs" <bskeggs@redhat.com>,
	"Andrea Arcangeli" <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	"Rik van Riel" <riel@surriel.com>,
	"Ben Woodard" <woodard@redhat.com>,
	linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/14] Heterogeneous Memory System (HMS) and hbind()
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 11:31:21 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <d6508932-377c-a4d1-d4d8-01d0f55b9190@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181206192050.GC3544@redhat.com>

On 12/6/18 11:20 AM, Jerome Glisse wrote:
>>> For case 1 you can pre-parse stuff but this can be done by helper library
>> How would that work?  Would each user/container/whatever do this once?
>> Where would they keep the pre-parsed stuff?  How do they manage their
>> cache if the topology changes?
> Short answer i don't expect a cache, i expect that each program will have
> a init function that query the topology and update the application codes
> accordingly.

My concern with having folks do per-program parsing, *and* having a huge
amount of data to parse makes it unusable.  The largest systems will
literally have hundreds of thousands of objects in /sysfs, even in a
single directory.  That makes readdir() basically impossible, and makes
even open() (if you already know the path you want somehow) hard to do fast.

I just don't think sysfs (or any filesystem, really) can scale to
express large, complicated topologies in a way that any normal program
can practically parse it.

My suspicion is that we're going to need to have the kernel parse and
cache these things.  We *might* have the data available in sysfs, but we
can't reasonably expect anyone to go parsing it.

  reply	other threads:[~2018-12-06 19:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 171+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-12-03 23:34 [RFC PATCH 00/14] Heterogeneous Memory System (HMS) and hbind() jglisse
2018-12-03 23:34 ` jglisse
2018-12-03 23:34 ` [RFC PATCH 01/14] mm/hms: heterogeneous memory system (sysfs infrastructure) jglisse
2018-12-03 23:34 ` [RFC PATCH 02/14] mm/hms: heterogenenous memory system (HMS) documentation jglisse
2018-12-04 17:06   ` Andi Kleen
2018-12-04 17:06     ` Andi Kleen
2018-12-04 18:24     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:24       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:31       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-04 18:57         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:57           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 19:11           ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-04 19:22             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 19:22               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 19:41               ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-04 20:13                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 20:13                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 20:30                   ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-04 20:59                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 20:59                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 21:19                       ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-04 21:51                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 21:51                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 22:16                           ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-04 23:56                             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 23:56                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  1:15                               ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05  2:31                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  2:31                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 17:41                                   ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 18:07                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 18:07                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 18:20                                       ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 18:33                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 18:33                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 18:48                                           ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 18:55                                             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 18:55                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 19:10                                               ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 22:58                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 22:58                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 23:09                                                   ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 23:20                                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 23:20                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 23:23                                                       ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 23:27                                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06  0:08                                                           ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  2:34                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  2:37                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  2:37                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 17:25                                     ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-05 18:01                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 18:01                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 20:14             ` Andi Kleen
2018-12-04 20:47               ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-04 21:15                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 21:15                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:54             ` Kuehling, Felix
2018-12-04 19:19           ` Dan Williams
2018-12-04 19:32             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 19:32               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 20:12       ` Andi Kleen
2018-12-04 20:41         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 20:41           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  4:36       ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2018-12-05  4:41         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  4:41           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 10:52   ` Mike Rapoport
2018-12-05 10:52     ` Mike Rapoport
2018-12-03 23:34 ` [RFC PATCH 03/14] mm/hms: add target memory to heterogeneous memory system infrastructure jglisse
2018-12-03 23:34 ` [RFC PATCH 04/14] mm/hms: add initiator " jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 05/14] mm/hms: add link " jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 06/14] mm/hms: add bridge " jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 07/14] mm/hms: register main memory with heterogenenous memory system jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 08/14] mm/hms: register main CPUs " jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 09/14] mm/hms: hbind() for heterogeneous memory system (aka mbind() for HMS) jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 10/14] mm/hbind: add heterogeneous memory policy tracking infrastructure jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 11/14] mm/hbind: add bind command to heterogeneous memory policy jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 12/14] mm/hbind: add migrate command to hbind() ioctl jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 13/14] drm/nouveau: register GPU under heterogeneous memory system jglisse
2018-12-03 23:35 ` [RFC PATCH 14/14] test/hms: tests for " jglisse
2018-12-04  7:44 ` [RFC PATCH 00/14] Heterogeneous Memory System (HMS) and hbind() Aneesh Kumar K.V
2018-12-04  7:44   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2018-12-04 14:44   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 14:44     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 14:44     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:02 ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 18:02   ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 18:49   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:49     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:49     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 18:54     ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 18:54       ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 19:11       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 19:11         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 19:11         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 21:37     ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 21:37       ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 21:57       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 21:57         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 21:57         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 23:58         ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 23:58           ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-05  0:29           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:29             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:29             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  1:22         ` Kuehling, Felix
2018-12-05  1:22           ` Kuehling, Felix
2018-12-05  1:22           ` Kuehling, Felix
2018-12-05 11:27     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2018-12-05 11:27       ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2018-12-05 16:09       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 16:09         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 16:09         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-04 23:54 ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-04 23:54   ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-05  0:15   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:15     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:15     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  1:06     ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-05  1:06       ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-05  2:13       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  2:13         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  2:13         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 17:27         ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-05 17:27           ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-05 17:53           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 17:53             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05 17:53             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 18:25             ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 18:25               ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 19:20               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 19:20                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 19:20                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 19:31                 ` Dave Hansen [this message]
2018-12-06 19:31                   ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 20:11                   ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-06 20:11                     ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-06 22:04                     ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 22:04                       ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 22:39                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 22:39                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 22:39                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 23:09                         ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 23:09                           ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 23:28                           ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-06 23:28                             ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-06 23:34                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 23:34                               ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 23:38                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 23:38                               ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-06 23:48                               ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-06 23:48                                 ` Logan Gunthorpe
2018-12-07  0:20                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07  0:20                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07  0:20                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07 15:06                                   ` Jonathan Cameron
2018-12-07 15:06                                     ` Jonathan Cameron
2018-12-07 15:06                                     ` Jonathan Cameron
2018-12-07 19:37                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07 19:37                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07 19:37                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07  0:15                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07  0:15                             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07  0:15                             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 20:27                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 20:27                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 20:27                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 21:46                     ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 21:46                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-06 21:46                       ` Jerome Glisse

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