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From: Jeff Moyer <jmoyer-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "Darrick J. Wong"
	<darrick.wong-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-nvdimm-y27Ovi1pjclAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org,
	linux-block-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org,
	linux-fsdevel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	lsf-pc-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Future direction of DAX
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:07:14 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <x49r3411xhp.fsf@segfault.boston.devel.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170117150638.GA3747-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> (Christoph Hellwig's message of "Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:06:38 -0800")

Christoph Hellwig <hch-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 09:54:27AM -0500, Jeff Moyer wrote:
>> I spoke with Dave before the holidays, and he indicated that
>> PMEM_IMMUTABLE would be an acceptable solution to allowing applications
>> to flush data completely from userspace.  I know this subject has been
>> beaten to death, but would you mind just summarizing your opinion on
>> this one more time?  I'm guessing this will be something more easily
>> hashed out at LSF, though.
>
> Come up with a prototype that doesn't suck and allows all fs features to
> actually work.

OK, I'll take this to mean that PMEM_IMMUTABLE is a non-starter.
Perhaps synchronous page faults (or whatever you want to call it) would
work, but...

> And show an application that actually cares and shows benefits on
> publicly available real hardware.

This is the crux of the issue.

> Until then go away and stop wasting everyones time.

Fair enough.  It seems fairly likely that this sort of functionality
would provide a big benefit.  But I agree we should have a real-world
use case as proof.

Thanks,
Jeff

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: "Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong@oracle.com>,
	Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-nvdimm@ml01.01.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Future direction of DAX
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:07:14 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <x49r3411xhp.fsf@segfault.boston.devel.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170117150638.GA3747@infradead.org> (Christoph Hellwig's message of "Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:06:38 -0800")

Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org> writes:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 09:54:27AM -0500, Jeff Moyer wrote:
>> I spoke with Dave before the holidays, and he indicated that
>> PMEM_IMMUTABLE would be an acceptable solution to allowing applications
>> to flush data completely from userspace.  I know this subject has been
>> beaten to death, but would you mind just summarizing your opinion on
>> this one more time?  I'm guessing this will be something more easily
>> hashed out at LSF, though.
>
> Come up with a prototype that doesn't suck and allows all fs features to
> actually work.

OK, I'll take this to mean that PMEM_IMMUTABLE is a non-starter.
Perhaps synchronous page faults (or whatever you want to call it) would
work, but...

> And show an application that actually cares and shows benefits on
> publicly available real hardware.

This is the crux of the issue.

> Until then go away and stop wasting everyones time.

Fair enough.  It seems fairly likely that this sort of functionality
would provide a big benefit.  But I agree we should have a real-world
use case as proof.

Thanks,
Jeff

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: "Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong@oracle.com>,
	Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-nvdimm@ml01.01.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Future direction of DAX
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:07:14 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <x49r3411xhp.fsf@segfault.boston.devel.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170117150638.GA3747@infradead.org> (Christoph Hellwig's message of "Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:06:38 -0800")

Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org> writes:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 09:54:27AM -0500, Jeff Moyer wrote:
>> I spoke with Dave before the holidays, and he indicated that
>> PMEM_IMMUTABLE would be an acceptable solution to allowing applications
>> to flush data completely from userspace.  I know this subject has been
>> beaten to death, but would you mind just summarizing your opinion on
>> this one more time?  I'm guessing this will be something more easily
>> hashed out at LSF, though.
>
> Come up with a prototype that doesn't suck and allows all fs features to
> actually work.

OK, I'll take this to mean that PMEM_IMMUTABLE is a non-starter.
Perhaps synchronous page faults (or whatever you want to call it) would
work, but...

> And show an application that actually cares and shows benefits on
> publicly available real hardware.

This is the crux of the issue.

> Until then go away and stop wasting everyones time.

Fair enough.  It seems fairly likely that this sort of functionality
would provide a big benefit.  But I agree we should have a real-world
use case as proof.

Thanks,
Jeff

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-01-17 16:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-01-14  0:20 [LSF/MM TOPIC] Future direction of DAX Ross Zwisler
2017-01-14  0:20 ` Ross Zwisler
2017-01-14  0:20 ` Ross Zwisler
     [not found] ` <20170114002008.GA25379-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-14  8:26   ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-01-14  8:26     ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-01-14  8:26     ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-01-16  0:19     ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-16  0:19       ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-16  0:19       ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-16 20:00     ` Jeff Moyer
2017-01-16 20:00       ` Jeff Moyer
2017-01-17  1:50       ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-01-17  1:50         ` Darrick J. Wong
2017-01-17  2:42         ` Dan Williams
2017-01-17  2:42           ` Dan Williams
     [not found]         ` <20170117015033.GD10498-PTl6brltDGh4DFYR7WNSRA@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-17  7:57           ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-01-17  7:57             ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-01-17  7:57             ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-01-17 14:54             ` Jeff Moyer
2017-01-17 14:54               ` Jeff Moyer
     [not found]               ` <x49mvep4tzw.fsf-RRHT56Q3PSP4kTEheFKJxxDDeQx5vsVwAInAS/Ez/D0@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-17 15:06                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-01-17 15:06                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-01-17 15:06                   ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                   ` <20170117150638.GA3747-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-17 16:07                     ` Jeff Moyer [this message]
2017-01-17 16:07                       ` Jeff Moyer
2017-01-17 16:07                       ` Jeff Moyer
2017-01-17 15:59 ` [Lsf-pc] " Jan Kara
2017-01-17 15:59   ` Jan Kara
2017-01-17 15:59   ` Jan Kara
2017-01-17 16:56   ` Dan Williams
2017-01-17 16:56     ` Dan Williams
2017-01-17 16:56     ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18  0:03   ` Kani, Toshimitsu
2017-01-18  0:03     ` Kani, Toshimitsu
2017-01-18  0:03     ` Kani, Toshimitsu
2017-01-18  5:25 ` willy
2017-01-18  5:25   ` willy
2017-01-18  5:25   ` willy
2017-01-18  6:01   ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18  6:01     ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18  6:01     ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18  6:07     ` willy
2017-01-18  6:07       ` willy
2017-01-18  6:07       ` willy
2017-01-18  6:25       ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18  6:25         ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18  6:25         ` Dan Williams
2017-01-18 17:22   ` Ross Zwisler
2017-01-18 17:22     ` Ross Zwisler
2017-01-18 17:22     ` Ross Zwisler

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